RE: Undervalued Italians: Under the hammer
Discussion
jamies30 said:
hufggfg said:
That SZ has had an engine swap, that's the reason it seems so cheap.
A "decent" is going to be more like £35k.
Yep - Alex will have done a great job, but I think it'll always be worth a bit less than an all-original one.A "decent" is going to be more like £35k.
Pickled said:
r11co said:
No biggie that the GTV was supplied to its original owner via Cyprus. I don't know the full ins-and-outs of the reason why independent vehicle importers were using that route at the time.
My GT got to its first owner via Gibraltar.
Could have been bought by someone serving in the forces, iirc there used to be some tax advantages for them.My GT got to its first owner via Gibraltar.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Alfa-Romeo-GTV-V6-6-spee...
Assuming the sale went through someone has made some nice work, it went for over £8k yesterday. I did bid on the eBay listing, as it seemed silly cheap for the mileage, but did not win. Just shows that a classic auction is a great place to sell at the moment!
Tuvra said:
405dogvan said:
But it's already over £10k and will cost you at least a couple-of-grand a year 'standing still' (insurance, basic maintenance, storage) and more if you use-it - so it's going to have to appreciate a LOT to be anything like a 'long term investment'.
It's a nice car but I don't see it magically outstripping it's costs in value anytime soon - if ever. Cars have to do crazy things like treble in value over relatively short periods to do that and there's no suggestion that will happen really.
It's a nice car for sure but that's not QUITE enough on it's own - and AMGs of that era are 'mass produced' cars, not like the Hammers and other older cars which are now gaining value...
Mass produced? Do some research! It's a nice car but I don't see it magically outstripping it's costs in value anytime soon - if ever. Cars have to do crazy things like treble in value over relatively short periods to do that and there's no suggestion that will happen really.
It's a nice car for sure but that's not QUITE enough on it's own - and AMGs of that era are 'mass produced' cars, not like the Hammers and other older cars which are now gaining value...
Edited by 405dogvan on Thursday 27th August 23:21
The sheds are being sold for pennies and chavved up / broken, prestige examples of these will get rarer and rarer. The CL65 is the M3 e30 equivalent to the 318, it was probably over double the price of a basic 500, hell it was probably double the price of the 55 and that will determine the values.
Calling the CL65 or any AMG CL mass produced is like saying Porsche 911 GT3's are mass produced because of the number of 911's made.
I may be wrong, however, nothing you have said has even budged my opinion on the future value of the 215 CL65.
All of that cost has to be recouped for your 'investment' to work - and you're talking about buying one now when prices are already inflated. Take a base price in 5 figures, add thousands-per-year and if you're talking 'long term' maybe even some restoration work and you need that 5-figure-sum to double or even treble to call this an 'investment'
Rarity alone doesn't double/treble prices and you need a BUYER too (a lot of these cars with silly pricetags are probably not selling - or selling for less than advertised I suspect)
I'm not saying it's not a lovely car, not a rare car, not a car which may increase in value as they become rarer still.
I'm saying that to be a "good long-term investment" (your term) it will need a lot of money throwing at it until it gets some unpredictable "magical value bump" (hold your nerve as the costs spiral - will it ever happen?) AND you need to find a buyer at that point.
Oh - and you have to be happy to sell it at that point too - not always an easy decision.
p.s. tl;dr version - 99.9% of car owners lose money on their cars, the nicer the car, the more money they lose. The 0.1% who own at just the right time make some but it's almost musical chairs
Edited by 405dogvan on Monday 31st August 10:28
Edited by 405dogvan on Monday 31st August 10:28
405dogvan said:
Rarity drives-up values but by the time cars are rare, the cost of maintaining them is astronomical. MB maintain parts supply for all their cars but they're not cheap, keeping a tidy one when all the others are scrap will be a costly task.
All of that cost has to be recouped for your 'investment' to work - and you're talking about buying one now when prices are already inflated. Take a base price in 5 figures, add thousands-per-year and if you're talking 'long term' maybe even some restoration work and you need that 5-figure-sum to double or even treble to call this an 'investment'
Rarity alone doesn't double/treble prices and you need a BUYER too (a lot of these cars with silly pricetags are probably not selling - or selling for less than advertised I suspect)
I'm not saying it's not a lovely car, not a rare car, not a car which may increase in value as they become rarer still.
I'm saying that to be a "good long-term investment" (your term) it will need a lot of money throwing at it until it gets some unpredictable "magical value bump" (hold your nerve as the costs spiral - will it ever happen?) AND you need to find a buyer at that point.
Oh - and you have to be happy to sell it at that point too - not always an easy decision.
p.s. tl;dr version - 99.9% of car owners lose money on their cars, the nicer the car, the more money they lose. The 0.1% who own at just the right time make some but it's almost musical chairs
No point debating this any more, I was right, you were wrong - at £10k it would have been a great Investment All of that cost has to be recouped for your 'investment' to work - and you're talking about buying one now when prices are already inflated. Take a base price in 5 figures, add thousands-per-year and if you're talking 'long term' maybe even some restoration work and you need that 5-figure-sum to double or even treble to call this an 'investment'
Rarity alone doesn't double/treble prices and you need a BUYER too (a lot of these cars with silly pricetags are probably not selling - or selling for less than advertised I suspect)
I'm not saying it's not a lovely car, not a rare car, not a car which may increase in value as they become rarer still.
I'm saying that to be a "good long-term investment" (your term) it will need a lot of money throwing at it until it gets some unpredictable "magical value bump" (hold your nerve as the costs spiral - will it ever happen?) AND you need to find a buyer at that point.
Oh - and you have to be happy to sell it at that point too - not always an easy decision.
p.s. tl;dr version - 99.9% of car owners lose money on their cars, the nicer the car, the more money they lose. The 0.1% who own at just the right time make some but it's almost musical chairs
Edited by 405dogvan on Monday 31st August 10:28
Edited by 405dogvan on Monday 31st August 10:28
The SZ was a bit tatty to say the least,I was at the auction and saw the car.
I'm sure Alex would of done a good job on the engine,but it was the wrong engine
as already mentioned on here,and the body work had rust bubbles on the roof section,
blistering on the bonnet and within an hour opening and closing drivers door it had
dropped and would not close cleanly ?!
To finish it sold to an Internet / phone bid and no one in the auction room bid on the car !!
It looked good in the pics,not so good In the metal/fibre glass ?!
I'm sure Alex would of done a good job on the engine,but it was the wrong engine
as already mentioned on here,and the body work had rust bubbles on the roof section,
blistering on the bonnet and within an hour opening and closing drivers door it had
dropped and would not close cleanly ?!
To finish it sold to an Internet / phone bid and no one in the auction room bid on the car !!
It looked good in the pics,not so good In the metal/fibre glass ?!
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