RE: 250 orders for new TVR
Discussion
Everyone knows about the monkey metal problems of the early speed6 engines but the later and indi-rebuilt engines are truly amazining. 
I just hope that the new ones will have a large capacity so that they make a lot of noise.
I would prefer a straight six but can live with a V8
As far as 2017 delivery, why would they say 2017 if it was not realistic and within their project plan?
A project plane that has been running for about 2 years now.
They are clearly not a bunch of idiots.
The release of the design and production progress etc are extremely import and and so closely guarded so the lack of info at this stage should be expected.
Stating 2017 is impossible without any knowledge of the details is quite frankly
I just hope that the new ones will have a large capacity so that they make a lot of noise.
I would prefer a straight six but can live with a V8
As far as 2017 delivery, why would they say 2017 if it was not realistic and within their project plan?
A project plane that has been running for about 2 years now.
They are clearly not a bunch of idiots.
The release of the design and production progress etc are extremely import and and so closely guarded so the lack of info at this stage should be expected.
Stating 2017 is impossible without any knowledge of the details is quite frankly
Edited by so called on Saturday 29th August 12:07
Digger said:
Yeah, as are your present thoughts.
Nice counter-argument. Explain to me how, with no factory and no dealers, they're going to get customer cars delivered two years from now? It ain't happening!coppice said:
I would disagree on two counts; the Rocket was a fully road legal car('barely legal'? It is either legal or it isn't. And it was. It wasn't primarily a track car either although I am sure that some Rockets have done track days. It attracted huge praise for packaging and style but was too expensive to sell in big numbers. Like a Seven or an Atom I don't doubt that with the right clothing long trips were easily possible.
Straight sixes can make a lovely noise , true, and can produce lots of torque and power . But to say it is the only type of engine for a front engined sports car is just nonsense I'm afraid. E Types, Healeys and Astons may have had them - and TVR too- but what about V6s, V8s, Straight 8s and V12s (eg TVR again , any muscle car Cobras etc,Bugatti T35, and a legion of front engined V12 Ferraris and Lamborghinis . If a 250 GTO isn't as sports car I really don't know what the hell is. Straight 4s too- the Lotus twin cam was good enough for the Elan and I have yet to be convinced that anybody has made a better small sports car.
The Rocket doesn't have doors, a roof or an interior. It's a track toy which, if you're a masochist, can be driven to a local track. It is not remotely comparable to anything with a roof, doors and an interior. Style? It looks like a 5-year-old's drawing of a Vanwall. TVR used Ford V6s for some time: they were dreadful. Cobras are muscle cars, not sports cars. Straight-eights are impractical because of torsional loading of the crankshaft, which is prone to flex. Ferrari's front-engined V12s (and their Lamborghini equivalents) are GTs rather than sports cars - only the 250s and 275s of half a century ago could be called sports cars - but I was talking here and now. A V6 is a compromise - where high RPM is required, the balance of the straight-six is inherently superior, and here's the rub: TVR already have a superb straight-six engine, which (with the aid of a few million quid bunged Ricardo's way - I think £4-5 million was quoted) could meet EuroVI emissions rules. Why they would want to buy in V8s from Ford when they could just sort their own straight six, I cannot comprehend. While in theory they could revive the V12, it was an absolute monster in the Speed Twelve, made about 900bhp and scared the bejesus out of Peter Wheeler... sure, it'd be awesome if it came back, but they'd probably sell about three. As for straight-fours, don't get me going. Horrible droning buzzing out-of-balance monstrosities. There's never been a really good one because of the inherent awfulness of the configuration. If Colin Chapman and Aurelio Lampredi had applied their undoubted expertise to a six-pot version of their twin-cams, the results would have been vastly more special.Straight sixes can make a lovely noise , true, and can produce lots of torque and power . But to say it is the only type of engine for a front engined sports car is just nonsense I'm afraid. E Types, Healeys and Astons may have had them - and TVR too- but what about V6s, V8s, Straight 8s and V12s (eg TVR again , any muscle car Cobras etc,Bugatti T35, and a legion of front engined V12 Ferraris and Lamborghinis . If a 250 GTO isn't as sports car I really don't know what the hell is. Straight 4s too- the Lotus twin cam was good enough for the Elan and I have yet to be convinced that anybody has made a better small sports car.
chris watton said:
Sorry, have to pull you up on this one, this doesn't sound much like you 'love the TVR brand' to me:
The new car does not have the legacy of the Peter Wheeler era to draw upon. I very much doubt it will have a beautifully hand-crafted cabin as per the Wheeler cars. The Tuscan et al were special because nothing, not the drivetrain, not the switchgear, nothing, was bought-in. Unless they can pull that off again, it'll be back to the dark days of the 80s wedges.RoverP6B said:
250 orders for a plastic kitcar with a rebadged Ford engine....blah blah blah
skyrover said:
Straight 6 engines are nice... But they will always play second fiddle to a proper V8 
Nope, a V8 will always play fiddle to any half-decent straight-six.so called said:
As far as 2017 delivery, why would they say 2017 if it was not realistic and within their project plan?
There have been numerous sports-car companies which have made unbelievable promises about what and when they would deliver. This appears to be yet another. They've no factory, nor a site chosen for one. They've no dealers. No support network. All that AND a new car CANNOT be delivered in just two years. Five would be a miracle: ten is more like it. Fools and their money are easily parted, is all I can say...P6B does talk awful tosh; not sure how a Cobra can be a 'muscle car' when that term didn't even come into common usage until years after its debut. And it's essentially semantics anyway - I know a Cobra or a 'Vette is a sports car , just like an F40 or a 246 Dino and whatever comments you might make about Bugatti Straight 8s..well they sort of worked didn't they? I get Mr P6B likes straight sixes but it isn't really necessary to rubbish other configurations to prove his point.
RoverP whatever... Do you know more about this than you are letting on? You seem to think that you know more than those involved. How do you know they have no factory/plans? How do you know they have not started prototype cars? I certainly don't know so please enlighten me as to where you got your information from.
Rover....
"The Rocket doesn't have doors, a roof or an interior. It's a track toy which, if you're a masochist, can be driven to a local track. It is not remotely comparable to anything with a roof, doors and an interior."
I've done 3.5hrs straight in mine. GM used to go to the South of France in his. Flemke drove to the 'Ring and other owners have done euro road trips. It's perfectly comfortable for long journeys.
I'd say our climate is more of an issue than the car but plenty of people ride motorcycles. They're not all masochists on the way to their local circuit!
"It looks like a 5-year-old's drawing of a Vanwall."
Maybe.
"The Rocket doesn't have doors, a roof or an interior. It's a track toy which, if you're a masochist, can be driven to a local track. It is not remotely comparable to anything with a roof, doors and an interior."
I've done 3.5hrs straight in mine. GM used to go to the South of France in his. Flemke drove to the 'Ring and other owners have done euro road trips. It's perfectly comfortable for long journeys.
I'd say our climate is more of an issue than the car but plenty of people ride motorcycles. They're not all masochists on the way to their local circuit!
"It looks like a 5-year-old's drawing of a Vanwall."
Maybe.
The thing is, TVR building a "new" rocket would be commercial suicide!
The Rocket was basically a 4 wheeled motorcycle. At the time, you could pretty much buy that or a Caterham.
In 2015, you can also buy that Caterham, or a Zenos, or a KTM, or an Atom / Nomad, or a Mono, or about 10 other low volume high performance "basic" cars. To build another one of these would be pointless.
Back in the glory days, TVR built what i would call high performance "road based" sportscars. ie high performance, but just enough practicality that the majority of owners could drive them everyday. But in the last 15 years, the capability, feature content and performance of normal cars has skyrocketed and in the UK at least, road conditions and politics have made fast road driving somewhat antisocial.
What TVR need to make in 2015, imo, is a "fast" MX5 or GT86. It needs to look good and go well, but must be able to be used every day. Unfortunately, this segment, now filled with things like Caymans, TTS, 370z is highly competitive, and the big OEMs can leverage the rest of there platforms to get the "hidden" bits to work, and work well (SAT NAV, Infotainment, Chassis Electronics etc)
These days when the entry level fast saloons are wading into battle with over 400bhp, the really pokey stuff with over 500, the market for "giant killer" is really very very small indeed. Even hot hatches now have 300bhp.
Unless TVR can come up with a design that is truly jaw dropping, just being "fast" isn't enough these days imo..........
The Rocket was basically a 4 wheeled motorcycle. At the time, you could pretty much buy that or a Caterham.
In 2015, you can also buy that Caterham, or a Zenos, or a KTM, or an Atom / Nomad, or a Mono, or about 10 other low volume high performance "basic" cars. To build another one of these would be pointless.
Back in the glory days, TVR built what i would call high performance "road based" sportscars. ie high performance, but just enough practicality that the majority of owners could drive them everyday. But in the last 15 years, the capability, feature content and performance of normal cars has skyrocketed and in the UK at least, road conditions and politics have made fast road driving somewhat antisocial.
What TVR need to make in 2015, imo, is a "fast" MX5 or GT86. It needs to look good and go well, but must be able to be used every day. Unfortunately, this segment, now filled with things like Caymans, TTS, 370z is highly competitive, and the big OEMs can leverage the rest of there platforms to get the "hidden" bits to work, and work well (SAT NAV, Infotainment, Chassis Electronics etc)
These days when the entry level fast saloons are wading into battle with over 400bhp, the really pokey stuff with over 500, the market for "giant killer" is really very very small indeed. Even hot hatches now have 300bhp.
Unless TVR can come up with a design that is truly jaw dropping, just being "fast" isn't enough these days imo..........
RoverP6B said:
Let me make myself clear: I love the TVR brand, I loved the sheer attitude and charisma the Peter Wheeler-era cars (especially towards the end, the Tuscan, Tamora etc), and I would be heartily cheered up to see it return. The present plans are just obviously lacking credibility.
+1Too speculative, too expensive, too me-too V8. Practically the only thing TVR about all of this City trader bombast is the brand name.
RoverP6B said:
Nope, a V8 will always play fiddle to any half-decent straight-six.
Top trolling. I have had both. And I really, really loved the straight 6 in my Tuscan and the flat 6 in the 911. But there is just something about a V8.......... a v8, n/a Ferrari at full chat will change your mind. Or an AJP8.
Christ, sometimes this place resembles 'mumsnet'.
Just watch this space. Unless it goes pear shaped (which like everything in life, can), the specs/plans I have heard about sound most encouraging. A range of cars to suit different wallets/expectations.
If it doesn't happen, at least they are trying. People should stop pissing on their brave attempts!
Or perhaps try it yourself? See how much encouragement you get here.
Just watch this space. Unless it goes pear shaped (which like everything in life, can), the specs/plans I have heard about sound most encouraging. A range of cars to suit different wallets/expectations.
If it doesn't happen, at least they are trying. People should stop pissing on their brave attempts!
Or perhaps try it yourself? See how much encouragement you get here.
Max_Torque said:
The thing is, TVR building a "new" rocket would be commercial suicide!
The Rocket was basically a 4 wheeled motorcycle. At the time, you could pretty much buy that or a Caterham.
In 2015, you can also buy that Caterham, or a Zenos, or a KTM, or an Atom / Nomad, or a Mono, or about 10 other low volume high performance "basic" cars. To build another one of these would be pointless.
Back in the glory days, TVR built what i would call high performance "road based" sportscars. ie high performance, but just enough practicality that the majority of owners could drive them everyday. But in the last 15 years, the capability, feature content and performance of normal cars has skyrocketed and in the UK at least, road conditions and politics have made fast road driving somewhat antisocial.
What TVR need to make in 2015, imo, is a "fast" MX5 or GT86. It needs to look good and go well, but must be able to be used every day. Unfortunately, this segment, now filled with things like Caymans, TTS, 370z is highly competitive, and the big OEMs can leverage the rest of there platforms to get the "hidden" bits to work, and work well (SAT NAV, Infotainment, Chassis Electronics etc)
These days when the entry level fast saloons are wading into battle with over 400bhp, the really pokey stuff with over 500, the market for "giant killer" is really very very small indeed. Even hot hatches now have 300bhp.
Unless TVR can come up with a design that is truly jaw dropping, just being "fast" isn't enough these days imo..........
Absolutely agree 100%. Making it drive like a TVR, or sound and feel like one will be the simple task. The single most important thing and the hardest thing to probably do is the simple fact that it needs to look great. The Rocket was basically a 4 wheeled motorcycle. At the time, you could pretty much buy that or a Caterham.
In 2015, you can also buy that Caterham, or a Zenos, or a KTM, or an Atom / Nomad, or a Mono, or about 10 other low volume high performance "basic" cars. To build another one of these would be pointless.
Back in the glory days, TVR built what i would call high performance "road based" sportscars. ie high performance, but just enough practicality that the majority of owners could drive them everyday. But in the last 15 years, the capability, feature content and performance of normal cars has skyrocketed and in the UK at least, road conditions and politics have made fast road driving somewhat antisocial.
What TVR need to make in 2015, imo, is a "fast" MX5 or GT86. It needs to look good and go well, but must be able to be used every day. Unfortunately, this segment, now filled with things like Caymans, TTS, 370z is highly competitive, and the big OEMs can leverage the rest of there platforms to get the "hidden" bits to work, and work well (SAT NAV, Infotainment, Chassis Electronics etc)
These days when the entry level fast saloons are wading into battle with over 400bhp, the really pokey stuff with over 500, the market for "giant killer" is really very very small indeed. Even hot hatches now have 300bhp.
Unless TVR can come up with a design that is truly jaw dropping, just being "fast" isn't enough these days imo..........
DonkeyApple said:
the simple fact that it needs to look great.
But again, even that is rather hard these days.I mean, take a look at the average hot hatch from the late 1990s, arguably TVRs heyday:
ok, a nice enough things, but not exactly "mad" in its appearence.
Fast forward nearly 20 years and we have normal "cooking" cars looking like this:
The game has changed, and it's a LONG way away from where it used to be.
Max_Torque said:
The game has changed, and it's a LONG way away from where it used to be.
From the Griffith onwards TVRs still have class 20-30 years later.
To think that purple and yellow Cerbs are 20 yrs old!
There's still a decent gap in the market for TVR to fill.
Power has gone up loads, but not power that is worth exploiting. It's there with turbos, crap throttle repsonse, huge kerb weights, lifeless steering, over-servoed brakes that give up if used. Audis and their ilk.
If TVR does a good job and gets a fairly light chassis and body, crisp throttle response, good sound, decent and feelsome steering and brakes...all for £75k...it'll be onto a winner (within a fairly small market).
I find the idea that it will weight anything less than 1250kg pretty silly, though!
Power has gone up loads, but not power that is worth exploiting. It's there with turbos, crap throttle repsonse, huge kerb weights, lifeless steering, over-servoed brakes that give up if used. Audis and their ilk.
If TVR does a good job and gets a fairly light chassis and body, crisp throttle response, good sound, decent and feelsome steering and brakes...all for £75k...it'll be onto a winner (within a fairly small market).
I find the idea that it will weight anything less than 1250kg pretty silly, though!
Robert Elise said:
Max_Torque said:
The game has changed, and it's a LONG way away from where it used to be.
From the Griffith onwards TVRs still have class 20-30 years later.
To think that purple and yellow Cerbs are 20 yrs old!
And, TBH, that looks as if it's trying a little too hard, way too fussy. It probably will not age all that well.
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