RE: Porsche 911 GTS vs Jaguar F-Type
Discussion
big_rob_sydney said:
Back the home team??? Unless you live in India, what bloody home team are you referring to? As British as Chicken Tikka Masala...?
And as for the 911. Bah. No doubt some idiot will be along shortly to remind the base car is 73k. Bu tthen who buys one with zero options.
Totally irrelevant comparisons, of polar opposite cars.
You want something to really DRIVE, in the context of not spending a fortune and not having a billion bhp, look no further that the toyota / subaru 86 / brz. Cheap as chips, and plenty of fun, fitting the brief.
These other cars are a joke.
You have to understand that those that have £70k to spend aren't going to generally want a GT86, most likely for 1) badge and 2) interior, add in the fact its a 4 cylinder and 'only' 200bhp, to those with triple the money of a GT86 to spend I dont think they'd give it a second glance. Understand what you're getting at. If I was going 'lower' budget Nissan GTR/Audi RS5/ E92 M3 or Z4M Coupe etc.And as for the 911. Bah. No doubt some idiot will be along shortly to remind the base car is 73k. Bu tthen who buys one with zero options.
Totally irrelevant comparisons, of polar opposite cars.
You want something to really DRIVE, in the context of not spending a fortune and not having a billion bhp, look no further that the toyota / subaru 86 / brz. Cheap as chips, and plenty of fun, fitting the brief.
These other cars are a joke.
All Jaguars are British-designed, British-engineered and British-constructed. The company is registered here, pays its taxes here, and ploughs its profits into more development and facilities here. Therefore, de facto, home team. Who owns the company (in this case, an Indian conglomerate headed up by a guy who's more English than the English) is utterly irrelevant.
I like 911's of all previous eras but i still can't figure out exactly why i despise the 991. Is it the "Sylvester Stallone pulled-upward" face lift? Or is it the badly-styled indicator shape? I don't know.
In this contest i'd choose the Jaguar. Except i wouldn't, i'd track down a 997 GT3 instead.
In this contest i'd choose the Jaguar. Except i wouldn't, i'd track down a 997 GT3 instead.
I have an F Type V8S and just spent the past 3 weeks driving a 981 Boxster S (standard exhaust). The Boxster does have an interesting induction noise, but it was in no way as exciting as the sound generated by the F Type exhaust.
Other than that I found the Boxster to be incredibly competent to drive but ultimately a little dull, it failed to generate much in the way of excitement for me.
As can be seen from my car history I am definitely a Porsche fan so not coming at this from an anti-Porsche viewpoint. My experiences are quite a while ago though and with older models so maybe the new ones have just become too good / clinical and as a consequence a little boring for certain peoples tastes.
Other than that I found the Boxster to be incredibly competent to drive but ultimately a little dull, it failed to generate much in the way of excitement for me.
As can be seen from my car history I am definitely a Porsche fan so not coming at this from an anti-Porsche viewpoint. My experiences are quite a while ago though and with older models so maybe the new ones have just become too good / clinical and as a consequence a little boring for certain peoples tastes.
I think the 991 is way too wide, from the rear it now looks almost Aston-ish, and then there's the electric steering, PDK-only on the GT3, no Mezger engines any more (although interestingly the 991 Cup cars retain the Mezger), just soulless direct injection lumps, and soon to go all-turbo...
RoverP6B said:
I think the 991 is way too wide, from the rear it now looks almost Aston-ish, and then there's the electric steering, PDK-only on the GT3, no Mezger engines any more (although interestingly the 991 Cup cars retain the Mezger), just soulless direct injection lumps, and soon to go all-turbo...
Soulless compared to a DFI V6 (the worst type of 6 cyl) with a supercharger? Good one! jamieduff1981 said:
The GT86 is a cosmetic minger, has a dodgem car interior, sounds like a 4 banger and is glacially slow. The F-Type and 911 are sports cars.
I agree with the engine being an issue but disagree on the objective stuff and won't comment on the looks as quite subjective.My GT86 felt much much more like a sports car than either of the F-Type cab or 997 I have driven. At least it has a pointy front end (in more ways than one) and a COG height the GTs here can only dream of.
Edited by nickfrog on Monday 31st August 10:12
nickfrog said:
I agree with the engine being an issue but disagree on the objective stuff and won't comment on the looks as quite subjective.
My GT86 felt much much more like a sports car than either of the F-Type cab or 997 I have driven. At least it has a pointy front end.
Try a manual Cayman R, or Manual 997.2 911 GTS (without being a GT3/GT3RS) and see what you think to those. GT86 has low grip levels, hence why some find them more fun, the fact originally you could break traction at 30mph in a toyota is amusing. The porsche and F type have limits/traction limits significantly higher due to tyre size etc so that may have some effect on how the car may feel to you. My GT86 felt much much more like a sports car than either of the F-Type cab or 997 I have driven. At least it has a pointy front end.
When you say felt much more like a sportscar could you be a little more specific?
EK993 said:
I have an F Type V8S and just spent the past 3 weeks driving a 981 Boxster S (standard exhaust). The Boxster does have an interesting induction noise, but it was in no way as exciting as the sound generated by the F Type exhaust.
I think its very hard to pitch that v8 against a 6 cylinder noise wise imo, the v6s is a much fairer comparison (vocally and in reality). That v8s/v8r is one of the best sounding v8s you can buy it sounds like a muscle car. That said many owners say they never shut up/quieten down - to some thats an issue. Of course the porsche with non sports exhaust or the GTS trick system (I believe different to just the S) won't sound as good as a the F-Type V8 jag.I know this isn't the intention of the article - how do you think it compares in comparison to Aston V8? I think on the road performance wise the Jag would absolutely walk the aston - thanks the torque at low RPM!
Pesty said:
I'm sure the 911 beats it in many areas but I don't crave tenths of a second to be the fastest on a track. Just to have fun driving.
I think this is a very good point - most cars aren't, and I think some journalists miss this point, Id want to know how a car feels being driven at pace on the public road (although they obviously can't show the speedo), and the characteristics of the car without turning all the electronics off... as Im presuming the majority of owners won't either.
Edited by mattf93 on Monday 31st August 10:30
Of those two, F type for me. Silver with red leather cheers.
The 991 is the best looking 911 since the 964 to me. Just looks fabulous but the f type is one of the best looking cars on the road.
I'm sure the 911 beats it in many areas but I don't crave tenths of a second to be the fastest on a track. Just to have fun driving.
The 991 is the best looking 911 since the 964 to me. Just looks fabulous but the f type is one of the best looking cars on the road.
I'm sure the 911 beats it in many areas but I don't crave tenths of a second to be the fastest on a track. Just to have fun driving.
Harry H said:
Bloody hell there's a lot of guff in this thread about ultimate handling of these modern cars.
There's absolutely no way you can spank even a modest modern sports car on todays roads. 20/30 years ago maybe but not any more. The roads are too congested and the cars are too good. All this guff about how they feel on the limit is just rubbish. Maybe one roundabout or one decent bend once in a blue moon you might just get a bit of a drift on assuming you actually have a little bit of talent but that's it. 99.9999% of the time they're sat in traffic stationary or stuck behind Mrs Biggins in her Nissan with the inevitable double white lines barring the overtake.
Why oh why does everyone keep falling for it. The reviews are written about how these cars behave at the absolute and many are taken in by it. When was the last time you saw anyone drifting a £100k car through a bend on a public road ? and how many of them have ever been near a track ? One of my cars is a bloody huge A8. I have no idea what it feels like on the limit I've never found a big enough empty enough stretch of road to find out. The Mrs Fiat 500 is a different kettle of fish though.
As someone has already said. The only thing that matters is how they make you feel. When you approach it, when you arrive in it, when you're sat there in the traffic. What's the use of all this potential when it never gets used.
The Jag get's my vote. It looks and sounds the Canines Genitalia and is a relative bargain. Who gives a stuff that the 911 has the potential to be point one of a second faster if it ever saw a track with the right driver behind the wheel.And even then he'd be having more fun in a £20k Caterham.
And breath.......
Aaand we're end of discussion. There's absolutely no way you can spank even a modest modern sports car on todays roads. 20/30 years ago maybe but not any more. The roads are too congested and the cars are too good. All this guff about how they feel on the limit is just rubbish. Maybe one roundabout or one decent bend once in a blue moon you might just get a bit of a drift on assuming you actually have a little bit of talent but that's it. 99.9999% of the time they're sat in traffic stationary or stuck behind Mrs Biggins in her Nissan with the inevitable double white lines barring the overtake.
Why oh why does everyone keep falling for it. The reviews are written about how these cars behave at the absolute and many are taken in by it. When was the last time you saw anyone drifting a £100k car through a bend on a public road ? and how many of them have ever been near a track ? One of my cars is a bloody huge A8. I have no idea what it feels like on the limit I've never found a big enough empty enough stretch of road to find out. The Mrs Fiat 500 is a different kettle of fish though.
As someone has already said. The only thing that matters is how they make you feel. When you approach it, when you arrive in it, when you're sat there in the traffic. What's the use of all this potential when it never gets used.
The Jag get's my vote. It looks and sounds the Canines Genitalia and is a relative bargain. Who gives a stuff that the 911 has the potential to be point one of a second faster if it ever saw a track with the right driver behind the wheel.And even then he'd be having more fun in a £20k Caterham.
And breath.......
mattf93 said:
nickfrog said:
I agree with the engine being an issue but disagree on the objective stuff and won't comment on the looks as quite subjective.
My GT86 felt much much more like a sports car than either of the F-Type cab or 997 I have driven. At least it has a pointy front end.
Try a manual Cayman R, or Manual 997.2 911 GTS (without being a GT3/GT3RS) and see what you think to those. GT86 has low grip levels, hence why some find them more fun, the fact originally you could break traction at 30mph in a toyota is amusing. The porsche and F type have limits/traction limits significantly higher due to tyre size etc so that may have some effect on how the car may feel to you. My GT86 felt much much more like a sports car than either of the F-Type cab or 997 I have driven. At least it has a pointy front end.
When you say felt much more like a sportscar could you be a little more specific?
RoverP6B said:
I think the 991 is way too wide, from the rear it now looks almost Aston-ish, and then there's the electric steering, PDK-only on the GT3, no Mezger engines any more (although interestingly the 991 Cup cars retain the Mezger), just soulless direct injection lumps, and soon to go all-turbo...
How long did you have yours before you sold it ?nickfrog said:
Yes. It felt like a much lighter, smaller footprint, much lower polar moment of inertia chassis than a GT like the 911 or the F-Type. In other words, it felt like a very responsive sports car when changing direction and under braking. Mine pulled 1.05g of lateral on humble GY F1s so plenty grippy enough, particularly on track, so very high grip level indeed for such skinny tyres. I suppose it's thanks to low weight and low cog. Traction more of an issue though you're right, nothing that a bit of short shifting or modulation wouldn't solve. But the main thing was size, responsiveness of control and ergonomics.
It's not very light, though. The MX5 shows it up a bit in that respect. ORD said:
nickfrog said:
Yes. It felt like a much lighter, smaller footprint, much lower polar moment of inertia chassis than a GT like the 911 or the F-Type. In other words, it felt like a very responsive sports car when changing direction and under braking. Mine pulled 1.05g of lateral on humble GY F1s so plenty grippy enough, particularly on track, so very high grip level indeed for such skinny tyres. I suppose it's thanks to low weight and low cog. Traction more of an issue though you're right, nothing that a bit of short shifting or modulation wouldn't solve. But the main thing was size, responsiveness of control and ergonomics.
It's not very light, though. The MX5 shows it up a bit in that respect. nickfrog said:
I reckon light/heavy is quite a relative metric. The GT86 is very heavy compared to a MK1 Elise yet very light indeed compared to a F-Type. Sorry for stating the bleeding obvious here.
The 911 is closer to the GT86 in weight than the F-Type is to the 911.But someone will be along soon to tell us that weight doesn't matter.
ORD said:
nickfrog said:
I reckon light/heavy is quite a relative metric. The GT86 is very heavy compared to a MK1 Elise yet very light indeed compared to a F-Type. Sorry for stating the bleeding obvious here.
The 911 is closer to the GT86 in weight than the F-Type is to the 911.But someone will be along soon to tell us that weight doesn't matter.
ORD said:
A 100kg difference is very noticeable in how a car feels. 200 or 300kg for this kind of car and you simply can no longer compare the cars.
You might not feel the difference between heavy and lightish cars. Some people do.
I reckon the difference between the 911 and the GT86 is about 200kgs. And it feels like twice as that quite frankly. Hence my original comment that the GT86 feels much more like a sports car to drive than the 911 (based on my 997 experience anyway). This doesn't take anything away from the Porsche, it just makes it feel like a (superb) GT when the Toyota does feel like a sports car, however slow it is.You might not feel the difference between heavy and lightish cars. Some people do.
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