RE: Porsche 911 GTS vs Jaguar F-Type

RE: Porsche 911 GTS vs Jaguar F-Type

Author
Discussion

jamieduff1981

8,022 posts

139 months

Monday 31st August 2015
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nickfrog said:
ORD said:
nickfrog said:
I reckon light/heavy is quite a relative metric. The GT86 is very heavy compared to a MK1 Elise yet very light indeed compared to a F-Type. Sorry for stating the bleeding obvious here.
smile The 911 is closer to the GT86 in weight than the F-Type is to the 911.

But someone will be along soon to tell us that weight doesn't matter.
ORD said:
A 100kg difference is very noticeable in how a car feels. 200 or 300kg for this kind of car and you simply can no longer compare the cars.

You might not feel the difference between heavy and lightish cars. Some people do.
I reckon the difference between the 911 and the GT86 is about 200kgs. And it feels like twice as that quite frankly. Hence my original comment that the GT86 feels much more like a sports car to drive than the 911 (based on my 997 experience anyway). This doesn't take anything away from the Porsche, it just makes it feel like a (superb) GT when the Toyota does feel like a sports car, however slow it is.
If that's the main metric then my old MG Midget out-sportscars any of these being well south of a tonne. smile

bobbsie

26 posts

103 months

Monday 31st August 2015
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jamieduff1981 said:
If that's the main metric then my old MG Midget out-sportscars any of these being well south of a tonne. smile
well, yes.
it's just the old 'what makes a sportscar' argument all over again.
MGB - "chuck into a corner and sort it out once you're in there". Yes.
Supremely competent 911, no. The fun - giggle - factor needs to be there.
A TVR is no match for a Porsche, so therefore a TVR is worthless?

RoverP6B

4,338 posts

127 months

Monday 31st August 2015
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ORD said:
Soulless compared to a DFI V6 (the worst type of 6 cyl) with a supercharger? Good one!
Nowt wrong with a supercharger. I was actually comparing the 991 to the old Mezger unit...

Buster73 said:
How long did you have yours before you sold it ?
One doesn't need to own a car to have an opinion on it, but I've spoken to people who bought them and quickly moved them on because of both the dull driving experience and disastrous reliability problems, engine failures and so on...

chrispmartha

15,361 posts

128 months

Monday 31st August 2015
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RoverP6B said:
One doesn't need to own a car to have an opinion on it, but I've spoken to people who bought them and quickly moved them on because of both the dull driving experience and disastrous reliability problems, engine failures and so on...
The engine issues have been sorted out since the 997 gen2, if someone sells a 991 because of the small percentage of engine failures in previous versions of the cars, they must be mad surely. What are these disastrous reliability problems you speak of?

RoverP6B

4,338 posts

127 months

Monday 31st August 2015
quotequote all
Limp-home-mode meltdowns after a brief bit of vigorous driving, Carreras and GT3s blowing up (yes, we all know, Porsche issued a recall on the GT3), PDK failures and so on. Porsches are generally not reliable cars.

chrispmartha

15,361 posts

128 months

Monday 31st August 2015
quotequote all
RoverP6B said:
Limp-home-mode meltdowns after a brief bit of vigorous driving, Carreras and GT3s blowing up (yes, we all know, Porsche issued a recall on the GT3), PDK failures and so on. Porsches are generally not reliable cars.
You must have some unlucky friends if they all had those issues ;-)

Housey

2,076 posts

226 months

Monday 31st August 2015
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RoverP6B said:
Limp-home-mode meltdowns after a brief bit of vigorous driving, Carreras and GT3s blowing up (yes, we all know, Porsche issued a recall on the GT3), PDK failures and so on. Porsches are generally not reliable cars.
Sweeping statements like that are those of an idiot who really has zero experience. Sorry, but horse **** spouted like that makes you sound stupid, not informed.

RoverP6B

4,338 posts

127 months

Monday 31st August 2015
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Look at the majority of owners' experiences of Porsche... these are very complex cars and built to none too great a standard - nice interior plastics and the doors go thunk, sure, but where it really matters, they're not as good as they should be at the price. Porsche fanboys can spout all they like - they're not THAT great...

ORD

18,086 posts

126 months

Monday 31st August 2015
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RoverP6B said:
Look at the majority of owners' experiences of Porsche... these are very complex cars and built to none too great a standard - nice interior plastics and the doors go thunk, sure, but where it really matters, they're not as good as they should be at the price. Porsche fanboys can spout all they like - they're not THAT great...
Shame you didn't get on with your 911.

But I imagine that most people will go with the absolutely resoundingly positive reviews from the worthwhile motoring press and the overwhelming majority of sentient owners.

RoverP6B

4,338 posts

127 months

Monday 31st August 2015
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The motoring press is very easily bought with nice food, hotels, track time on launches etc. It's how the cars survive real-world use that is really telling. However, the 991 has also been lambasted by various journalists - both here at PH and over at Evo, to cite just a couple of examples.

chrispmartha

15,361 posts

128 months

Monday 31st August 2015
quotequote all
RoverP6B said:
The motoring press is very easily bought with nice food, hotels, track time on launches etc. It's how the cars survive real-world use that is really telling. However, the 991 has also been lambasted by various journalists - both here at PH and over at Evo, to cite just a couple of examples.
would that be evo's 5 star review you're talking about?

http://www.evo.co.uk/porsche/911

http://www.evo.co.uk/porsche/911/7078/all-new-pors...

I suspect despite your extensive customer research the majority of Porsche 991 owners are rather happy with their cars

Housey

2,076 posts

226 months

Monday 31st August 2015
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RoverP6B said:
Look at the majority of owners' experiences of Porsche...

My you must have been busy pulling that data together. You realise how ANOTHER sweeping statement just makes you less credible surely?

RoverP6B said:
these are very complex cars and built to none too great a standard - nice interior plastics and the doors go thunk, sure, but where it really matters, they're not as good as they should be at the price.
Subjective nonsense so we can ignore that.

RoverP6B said:
Porsche fanboys can spout all they like - they're not THAT great...
Subjective nonsense that again says more about your own 'issues' than anything credible. I note you seem to have a history of this, rambling a lot about stuff that it's obvious is that of a beard with a pint of mild....and please look at my car history before you call me a fanboy. My 1 Porsche was faultless, but what would I know, these cars are far to complex for me or my broad collection of Porsche (and many other brand) owning mates to understand or have anything of value to say.



Housey

2,076 posts

226 months

Monday 31st August 2015
quotequote all
RoverP6B said:
The motoring press is very easily bought with nice food, hotels, track time on launches etc. It's how the cars survive real-world use that is really telling. However, the 991 has also been lambasted by various journalists - both here at PH and over at Evo, to cite just a couple of examples.
So the press are idiots and biased unless they agree with you? Christ you know how to ruin your own arguments better than many I have seen on here over the years don't you.

nickfrog

20,874 posts

216 months

Monday 31st August 2015
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People buying a new Porsche are simply wrong. That Rover P6 is a far better bet. I reckon Porsche should look into making them actually, exactly how they were all those years ago. I might give them a call, they are still open for a few minutes.

DJRC

23,563 posts

235 months

Monday 31st August 2015
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The motoring Press being mainly idiots is a position I have some sympathy with. Let's be honest there are only about 5 or 6 worth reading.

I have sympathy with ho him attitude to the flat six also. I think it sounds fairly ordinary in most applications of the 911, but having followed and played tag with a last gen GT3 sometime recently I'm quite to say that my God does that engine not lack for grunt and character! I was roof down in the latest 55 so my frame of reference on the epicness of the engine I consider to be sufficient. We weren't hanging about either smile The top end howl on that thing was lush!

ORD

18,086 posts

126 months

Monday 31st August 2015
quotequote all
DJRC said:
The motoring Press being mainly idiots is a position I have some sympathy with. Let's be honest there are only about 5 or 6 worth reading.

I have sympathy with ho him attitude to the flat six also. I think it sounds fairly ordinary in most applications of the 911, but having followed and played tag with a last gen GT3 sometime recently I'm quite to say that my God does that engine not lack for grunt and character! I was roof down in the latest 55 so my frame of reference on the epicness of the engine I consider to be sufficient. We weren't hanging about either smile The top end howl on that thing was lush!
It's one of the finest sounding engines around. It's restrained in terms of exhaust noise, but plenty of people don't like exhaust noise (me included), and you can just change the exhaust if that bothers you. You cannot, by contrast, make a generic V8 sound anything but generic V8, and V6s are dreary.

kambites

67,462 posts

220 months

Monday 31st August 2015
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jamieduff1981 said:
If that's the main metric then my old MG Midget out-sportscars any of these being well south of a tonne. smile
Give me the choice of a 991, an F-Type and an MG Midget to thrash down a B-road on a sunny day and I'll take the MG every time. Obviously the others are better at just about everything else, but the Midget is enormous fun on the right road in a way that even an Elise struggles to match let alone a behemoth like the 911 or F-Type.

chelme

1,353 posts

169 months

Monday 31st August 2015
quotequote all
Many different opinions here, all valid too.

There is no doubt Porsche is not as reliable as the Press has made them out to be. References like 'granite, solid, honest' and other st spouted by the likes of EVO over the years just fail to account for all the problems suffered by owners over the years post Boxster (Version 1) and 996. I am not suggesting that their cars are a joke within this context but, lets be balanced here, Porsche have fked up a few times royally.

Moving on, the aesthetics of the car are subjective yes, but so is the 'feel' of the vehicle and what the driver takes out from his/her experience.Personally, I think the Jaguar is just as good looking, if not more so than the Porsche especially from the rear 3/4, or the rear of the vehicle. I think the Porsche looks better from the front/ front 3/4 especially in the wider body.

Frankly, I could not care less about track times, but know of many who value that, so fair enough.

The feel from the chassis is important for me however, as is the feel from the steering, not to mention too, the sound of the engine. When it comes to adjustability and feedback from the chassis, the Porsche clearly seems to be the better car here, the movements seem more subtly controllable and I can totally understand why some may consider this an important factor and hey, even get off on it. It is a shame the EPAS is said to lack the feel of the older hydraulic set up...

As regards 'image' I think anyone who says this is a 'non-factor' for them is speaking st (sorry ORD). Image is always going to play a role, even if it is subconscious.

For me, the ownership has to be emotional, and based on this I wager the Jag would be the more emotional purchase for me - it is a more beautiful looking car IMHO and sounds more feral and feels and performs almost as well as the Porsche. It seems to be more of a 'raw experience', but I can totally appreciate why someone might want to choose the Porsche over the Jag. It is a 'living legend' and by most accounts, a damn fine car to drive.






JockySteer

1,407 posts

115 months

Monday 31st August 2015
quotequote all
RoverP6B said:
I think the 991 is way too wide, from the rear it now looks almost Aston-ish, and then there's the electric steering, PDK-only on the GT3, no Mezger engines any more (although interestingly the 991 Cup cars retain the Mezger), just soulless direct injection lumps, and soon to go all-turbo...
Soulless rofl. Love a good joke

The Mezger was and is sensational. The new flat 6 is just as incredible.. go and listen to the last 500rpm on the 991 GT3 again and come back

JockySteer

1,407 posts

115 months

Monday 31st August 2015
quotequote all
RoverP6B said:
The motoring press is very easily bought with nice food, hotels, track time on launches etc. It's how the cars survive real-world use that is really telling. However, the 991 has also been lambasted by various journalists - both here at PH and over at Evo, to cite just a couple of examples.
I'm dying to see it being lambasted by Evo - please share the link?