RE: Porsche 911 GTS vs Jaguar F-Type
Discussion
sege said:
I would never suggest that the British press give the F-Type a free pass, but....trying to suggest that overly light feel-less electric power steering is any kind of plus point in a 'purist sports car' is stretching it just a little bit.
Light isn't the same as lacking in feel, although I suspect in the case of these two cars the systems are both things. jamieduff1981 said:
I've called you out on this before. How many miles have you done in F-Types? Do you normally push your cars up hills? You make an enourmous deal of kerb weight but pretty much every single person who's actually thrown one around doesn't see it as worth talking about. I can only conclude you've never driven one.
The current 5 series and 6 series are very heavy. Many regard them (well the M5 & M6)as objectively better than their much lighter competitors. The let's-pretend engine noises and German interior & exterior is enough to put me off but hey... Likewise you wouldn't want a Nissan GTR landing on your foot either but I don't hear many people flatly dismissing them as s
t on the basis of kerb weight.
No interest at all in a 1700kg 'sports car'. Maybe kerb weight doesn't matter to you, but I find it an extremely important indicator of how a car will feel. A 100kg difference is very noticeable in how a car feels. 200 or 300kg for this kind of car and you simply can no longer compare the cars. The current 5 series and 6 series are very heavy. Many regard them (well the M5 & M6)as objectively better than their much lighter competitors. The let's-pretend engine noises and German interior & exterior is enough to put me off but hey... Likewise you wouldn't want a Nissan GTR landing on your foot either but I don't hear many people flatly dismissing them as s
t on the basis of kerb weight.You might not feel the difference between heavy and lightish cars. Some people do.
jl34 said:
I would take the Jag even if it was more expensive than the 911. The Jag is just so much more desirable on an emotional level , looks, sound , charisma. The 991 looks too stretched over the 997 and is just a bit dull, plus the thought of an engine failure would scare me to death.
Why? Would you take out the 991 engine and put in one from a 996 or Gen 1 997? If not, your comment re engines makes no sense. I don't particularly like the 991, but it's a damn impressive car. Too GT, probably, but that's what the market wants.
Sports cars which feel heavy are crap but being heavy and feeling heavy isn't always the same thing (although it usually is). The 991 feels considerably heavier than it is, to me. I suspect the Jag will still feel heavier than it, that weight difference is probably just too big to hide, but I doubt the difference is anywhere near as wide as the numbers suggest.
I've never when buying a car think let's compare a 60k car with one that costs 90k plus. Not pistonhead's fault.
I'm also going off the more complicated porsches. Would love to see the basic 911 with a manual stick go up against a range of cars ranging from this f type to the lotus evora 400.
I'm also going off the more complicated porsches. Would love to see the basic 911 with a manual stick go up against a range of cars ranging from this f type to the lotus evora 400.
ORD said:
jamieduff1981 said:
I've called you out on this before. How many miles have you done in F-Types? Do you normally push your cars up hills? You make an enourmous deal of kerb weight but pretty much every single person who's actually thrown one around doesn't see it as worth talking about. I can only conclude you've never driven one.
The current 5 series and 6 series are very heavy. Many regard them (well the M5 & M6)as objectively better than their much lighter competitors. The let's-pretend engine noises and German interior & exterior is enough to put me off but hey... Likewise you wouldn't want a Nissan GTR landing on your foot either but I don't hear many people flatly dismissing them as st on the basis of kerb weight.
No interest at all in a 1700kg 'sports car'. Maybe kerb weight doesn't matter to you, but I find it an extremely important indicator of how a car will feel. A 100kg difference is very noticeable in how a car feels. 200 or 300kg for this kind of car and you simply can no longer compare the cars. The current 5 series and 6 series are very heavy. Many regard them (well the M5 & M6)as objectively better than their much lighter competitors. The let's-pretend engine noises and German interior & exterior is enough to put me off but hey... Likewise you wouldn't want a Nissan GTR landing on your foot either but I don't hear many people flatly dismissing them as s
t on the basis of kerb weight.You might not feel the difference between heavy and lightish cars. Some people do.
I was under the impression that the F-Type sits on a modified version of the chassis that underpinned the 2006 XK. Might well be wrong there, but if so, based on the fact that it was designed for a bigger car a decade ago on a shoestring budget, it's understandable that the F-Type's heavy. Easy to forget with the current lineup that a decade ago your choices were X-Type, S-Type or "old" XJ.
Another part of me also suspects that even the F-Type R wouldn't keep up with the 911 GTS, at least around corners, never mind a Turbo.
Another part of me also suspects that even the F-Type R wouldn't keep up with the 911 GTS, at least around corners, never mind a Turbo.
That is one hell of a price gap, and I thought the F-Type pricing was a little strong!
Impossible to say which I'd have without driving either, but I'd probably chose an XKR over both, sorry...
Though it does look rather stunning in Green
Ok, make mine a V6 S in green with tan leather and a manual gearbox please 
I was at my local Jaguar dealer this weekend and asked about the uptake for the manual option, apparently only 2 or 3 orders have been placed since launch
Impossible to say which I'd have without driving either, but I'd probably chose an XKR over both, sorry...
Though it does look rather stunning in Green
Ok, make mine a V6 S in green with tan leather and a manual gearbox please I was at my local Jaguar dealer this weekend and asked about the uptake for the manual option, apparently only 2 or 3 orders have been placed since launch
The 991 is fantastic! I had one as a test car for a day and absolutely loved it, it is a great drive, fairly practical, feels nice at regular speed and looks the business - it doesn't stand out that much, but I like that.
So there I go to place my order, the bloody thing came to over £100k once I'd specd it up!!!! Forget about it, that's just bad value and is the biggest problem with the 991. It's an £80k car tops to me when new, but obviously plenty of people who think otherwise!
So there I go to place my order, the bloody thing came to over £100k once I'd specd it up!!!! Forget about it, that's just bad value and is the biggest problem with the 991. It's an £80k car tops to me when new, but obviously plenty of people who think otherwise!
MrTappets said:
I was under the impression that the F-Type sits on a modified version of the chassis that underpinned the 2006 XK. Might well be wrong there, but if so, based on the fact that it was designed for a bigger car a decade ago on a shoestring budget, it's understandable that the F-Type's heavy. Easy to forget with the current lineup that a decade ago your choices were X-Type, S-Type or "old" XJ.
Another part of me also suspects that even the F-Type R wouldn't keep up with the 911 GTS, at least around corners, never mind a Turbo.
The F-Type V8S had too much power and grip to be challenge me on country roads. Why anyone would care about even more theoretical performance is beyond me. Floor it between tight corners and it catapults itself to 3 digit speeds with no drama at all. Whomever said the V8S was "TVRish" was talking nonsense. My Cerbera is always an exercise in seeing how much can be had out of it. The V8 F-Type was rather brilliant but too competent for my liking for a Sunday blast. It was the best car I've ever commuted in though (again B roads mostly). I reckon a manual V6S would be the sweet spot for me. If it has too much grip to be entertaining in a TVRish way, I want to be able to thrash the engine.Another part of me also suspects that even the F-Type R wouldn't keep up with the 911 GTS, at least around corners, never mind a Turbo.
jamieduff1981 said:
The F-Type V8S had too much power and grip to be challenge me on country roads. Why anyone would care about even more theoretical performance is beyond me. Floor it between tight corners and it catapults itself to 3 digit speeds with no drama at all. Whomever said the V8S was "TVRish" was talking nonsense. My Cerbera is always an exercise in seeing how much can be had out of it. The V8 F-Type was rather brilliant but too competent for my liking for a Sunday blast. It was the best car I've ever commuted in though (again B roads mostly). I reckon a manual V6S would be the sweet spot for me. If it has too much grip to be entertaining in a TVRish way, I want to be able to thrash the engine.
The V8 AWD is even more competent. Far too quick for most roads, to have 'fun' you need to be going ludicrous speeds otherwise it just feels like the car isn't even awake. The V6S is spot on, I think it's a shame they haven't considered a V6 SVR, potential for a stripped out B-road destroyer. daveco said:
Performance figures for the Jag seem a tad understated...surely with that power/weight 0-60 should be lower than 5??
Also does the 991 series of 911 have any engine issues or have they sorted all that nonsense?
0-60 for the Jag is about what you would expect for p/w ratio and being front-engined.Also does the 991 series of 911 have any engine issues or have they sorted all that nonsense?
No problems with the 991 engine that I know about. 997 engines were also very reliable from 2009, or thereabouts.
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