Used car oil use
Discussion
I've just paid £1800 for a 152k 2003 9-5 Aero, which has had a FULL bolt by bolt engine rebuild inc turbo. I've been thinking I paid over the odds, but it uses NO oil and there's so many horror stories of these engines using oil, blocking the strainer and seizing
I work for Audi, and we all know about their oil consumption issues! When we asses oil consumption, Audi (using as a reference, I realise not a SAAB), allow 0.5l of oil per 1000km.
Maybe drop the inter cooler pipe work and see if there's a lot of oil in it, which would suggest turbo. If it smokes on start up, it's the valve stem oil seals
Tbh, the first thing I'd do when buying an Aero is drop the sump to clear the strainer
I work for Audi, and we all know about their oil consumption issues! When we asses oil consumption, Audi (using as a reference, I realise not a SAAB), allow 0.5l of oil per 1000km.
Maybe drop the inter cooler pipe work and see if there's a lot of oil in it, which would suggest turbo. If it smokes on start up, it's the valve stem oil seals
Tbh, the first thing I'd do when buying an Aero is drop the sump to clear the strainer
It is usually the turbo on these - 145k isn't a bad life for a turbo. There is nothing actually "wrong" with it as such, just the symptoms of a 145k mile turbo nearing the end of its life.
They're not drastically expensive and quite easy to fit as IIRC they are at the front of the engine.
They're not drastically expensive and quite easy to fit as IIRC they are at the front of the engine.
yep, hanging off the front. getting the downpipe off will be a bit hit and miss as to whether it'll unbolt or just wind out the flange bolts. there is a steady bar just about level with where the pipe bends under the engine.
you'll need to borrow a small child to weave the oil and water pipes through what, i assume, saab figured was an unobstructed run to the turbo. oh yes, reconnecting the cobra - you need to evolve a third hand for that one unless you replace the clamp with something a little less OEM
used TD04 15's from about £150 on the bay of dreams. there are some "oriental" copies knocking about which those who have them suggest aren't too shonky - from around £230 new iirc
paul
you'll need to borrow a small child to weave the oil and water pipes through what, i assume, saab figured was an unobstructed run to the turbo. oh yes, reconnecting the cobra - you need to evolve a third hand for that one unless you replace the clamp with something a little less OEM
used TD04 15's from about £150 on the bay of dreams. there are some "oriental" copies knocking about which those who have them suggest aren't too shonky - from around £230 new iirc
paul
Don't think it'd be causative - never done it on any of mine and i have blown a few turbos on saab B2*5 engines ! I can see how it could happen, just haven't experienced it.
Are you sure the EML is coil-pack related, ie, had a code read ? I ask this as i'm pretty sure that the DI pack doesn't always trigger the CEL and a flashing EML usually means "Stop". "Now".
When a DI pack does trigger a code with a steady EML it'll be misfire related and the fix, logically enough, is to replace the DI pack. Over time they can develop cracks in the housing which can be visble on the underside, between the coils. When you take one apart you'll often find evidence of arcing or whatever it's called nowadays. Most of us really do carry a spare in the boot, along with a CPS, as failure is "when" and not "if".
Again, potentially expensive but non-genuine should really be avoided. Having said that, there's a chappy on UK Saabs who comissioned and imported a batch from China which are much better than the usual tat on ebay and are a significant cost saving on OEM. Incidentally, he did also import a few of the TD04 copies i mentioned previously - just search for "chinese TD04" or similar and you should find his ad.
yours is T7 so black DI pack - note that you can't fit a red (T5) DI pack as the knock sensing is different between the two (although you can retrofit a black DI in place of a red)
paul
Are you sure the EML is coil-pack related, ie, had a code read ? I ask this as i'm pretty sure that the DI pack doesn't always trigger the CEL and a flashing EML usually means "Stop". "Now".
When a DI pack does trigger a code with a steady EML it'll be misfire related and the fix, logically enough, is to replace the DI pack. Over time they can develop cracks in the housing which can be visble on the underside, between the coils. When you take one apart you'll often find evidence of arcing or whatever it's called nowadays. Most of us really do carry a spare in the boot, along with a CPS, as failure is "when" and not "if".
Again, potentially expensive but non-genuine should really be avoided. Having said that, there's a chappy on UK Saabs who comissioned and imported a batch from China which are much better than the usual tat on ebay and are a significant cost saving on OEM. Incidentally, he did also import a few of the TD04 copies i mentioned previously - just search for "chinese TD04" or similar and you should find his ad.
yours is T7 so black DI pack - note that you can't fit a red (T5) DI pack as the knock sensing is different between the two (although you can retrofit a black DI in place of a red)
paul
Edited by paulmakin on Sunday 30th August 20:46
Edited by paulmakin on Sunday 30th August 21:07
just another thought - if you go ahead and swap the turbo then do a sump drop at the same time. 2003/4 was the change over year for the PCV updates. If you have the earlier version you are at risk of sludging so may as well drop the sump whilst the downpipe etc are off.
the words "Saab" and "sludge" occur all too frequently in the same sentence so just a quick word to the wise as it were.
paul
the words "Saab" and "sludge" occur all too frequently in the same sentence so just a quick word to the wise as it were.
paul
Cheers for the details, is the eBay seller an angry ginger? The warning codes are 1312 and 1334 that come back every now and then. 1340 was around but went when I put in the right ngk plugs... I did go for the cheap simple fix first!
I was just wondering if oil in the air might be confusing the sensor set up despite being a fairly common thing on its own right.
Cheers!
I was just wondering if oil in the air might be confusing the sensor set up despite being a fairly common thing on its own right.
Cheers!
those are def misfire - 1312 is cylinders 1 or 2 and 1334 is cylinders 3 or 4 - so new plugs will have helped and maybe even fixed it. Might want to check the new plugs and see if thsy're oiling up secondary to oil in the inlet tract.
i think 1340 is the cam position sensor but don't quote me. This should help you isolate the fault though:
http://saabinfo.se/og-9-5/error-codes/obd2-error-c...
paul
i think 1340 is the cam position sensor but don't quote me. This should help you isolate the fault though:
http://saabinfo.se/og-9-5/error-codes/obd2-error-c...
paul
paulmakin said:
those are def misfire - 1312 is cylinders 1 or 2 and 1334 is cylinders 3 or 4 - so new plugs will have helped and maybe even fixed it. Might want to check the new plugs and see if thsy're oiling up secondary to oil in the inlet tract.
i think 1340 is the cam position sensor but don't quote me. This should help you isolate the fault though:
http://saabinfo.se/og-9-5/error-codes/obd2-error-c...
paul
Apparently the cam sensor is actually part of the di unit function. The old plugs did have a smear of oil the lower thread as well as being old looking. Is me hoping that fixing the oil user might also did the errors.... Optimism rather than realism at this stage! i think 1340 is the cam position sensor but don't quote me. This should help you isolate the fault though:
http://saabinfo.se/og-9-5/error-codes/obd2-error-c...
paul
they are listed separately to a complete DI unit but unless you know exactly which circuit and location it's always quicker and easier to change the DI pack.
i'd be tempted to run around in it for a while and see if the EML comes back before starting spending. Saabs can be funny with old plugs for example and the new set could well have sorted it.
although, i'd probably start looking for a known good used DI pack as well !
just had a quick look over on UKsaabs but can't find the ad for the new Chinese DI packs and TD04's but many 9-5's being broken in the Parts For Sale section. DI packs from £40ish and there's an ad for a couple of known good TD04's from £60 (some play in the shafts but not smoking)
paul
i'd be tempted to run around in it for a while and see if the EML comes back before starting spending. Saabs can be funny with old plugs for example and the new set could well have sorted it.
although, i'd probably start looking for a known good used DI pack as well !
just had a quick look over on UKsaabs but can't find the ad for the new Chinese DI packs and TD04's but many 9-5's being broken in the Parts For Sale section. DI packs from £40ish and there's an ad for a couple of known good TD04's from £60 (some play in the shafts but not smoking)
paul
Cheers for the advice and pointers, at the moment the car has warranty from the supplying dealer, so I was trying to gauge what would be a reasonable condition for it to be in. As you say the di pack is straight forward, I virtually did it for the plugs, (its had them for about 500 miles now and the lights come back since) the turbo is slightly more involved!
The dealer seems amenable for the moment so I'll report back in a few days!
The dealer seems amenable for the moment so I'll report back in a few days!
It's also worth noting that blocked oil breather drain tubes in the cam cover aren't uncommon and can contribute to increased oil consumption on this engine. It's easy enough to take the cover off to check and if necessary clean them out with WD40 and some copper wire. A replacement cam cover gasket isn't expensive.
Also check that there's no leaks from the blanking disc in the head where the distributor used to sit in the older engines. It's common for these to leak over time and replacements from a Saab dealer aren't expensive. Swapping it just involves drifting out the old one and tapping a new one in place when you've got the cam cover off to check the drain tubes. You don't need to undo the bridge piece that holds it in place.
I would also fit a new PCV grommet in the cover when you put everything back as any vacuum leaks there really reduce the effectiveness of the PCV system. A genuine Saab one is preferable as some of the aftermarket ones aren't as tight a fit imho.
Whilst it does sound as though the turbo is the main problem, this may be a contributory factor.
Also check that there's no leaks from the blanking disc in the head where the distributor used to sit in the older engines. It's common for these to leak over time and replacements from a Saab dealer aren't expensive. Swapping it just involves drifting out the old one and tapping a new one in place when you've got the cam cover off to check the drain tubes. You don't need to undo the bridge piece that holds it in place.
I would also fit a new PCV grommet in the cover when you put everything back as any vacuum leaks there really reduce the effectiveness of the PCV system. A genuine Saab one is preferable as some of the aftermarket ones aren't as tight a fit imho.
Whilst it does sound as though the turbo is the main problem, this may be a contributory factor.
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