Bangernomics verses New Cars

Bangernomics verses New Cars

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Discussion

battered

4,088 posts

146 months

Tuesday 1st September 2015
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Lease deals have changed the rules of the game, and they have been further distorted by the VED / road tax situation that deliberately kills off old cars. It makes me bloody angry, but I'll put my soapbox away.

People here aren't comparing like with like. The ones favouring older cars aren't factoring in the reaction of others. Yes, yes, you don't care what other people think. That's fine. But people's behaviour towards you shifts if you show up in (say) an 04 plate Audi compared to a smaller, newer item. If you can work round that, fine. But there will be things happening that you can't or won't see.

I say this as an old car fan. I have an 03 Mondy, it's just failed the MoT and I'm having a debate as to what to do before the old one runs out. Right now I'd pay a reasonable sum of money not to have to worry about a £300+ MoT bill knowing that at 110k it's likely to hand in afew other bills next year and now may be a good time to get out. If I lose a day's pay, that's a monthly payment.

TheAngryDog

12,394 posts

208 months

Tuesday 1st September 2015
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Digby said:
TheAngryDog said:
Digby said:
Worth mentioning that when the car was delivered, it had moisture in the headlamp.I called one of the provided numbers, they forwarded it to the providing Audi dealer and they got back to me within the hour.At first they thought it may simply dry out but after sending them an image of the lamp, they told me to take it to my local Audi dealer (five minutes away) and get it inspected.Once there, they decided to replace the entire unit, paid for a taxi home and they called later that day to say the car was ready.They even washed it.

Edited by Digby on Monday 31st August 19:46
That's still an inconvenience which the idea of leasing is meant to avoid, is it not? Sure it was fixed foc, but this was a new car, it shouldn't of had that defect in the first place.
According to Audi themselves, it's not uncommon to find this on new cars and most should dry out without a problem.As for it being an inconvenience, it didn't bother me in the slightest.
I think it would irk with me on a brand new car. The reason for this thread by the OP is for the lack of issues when buying new, and on day one your car had an issue. Minor it may be.

rongagin

481 posts

135 months

Tuesday 1st September 2015
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TheAngryDog said:
I think it would irk with me on a brand new car. The reason for this thread by the OP is for the lack of issues when buying new, and on day one your car had an issue. Minor it may be.
Bathtub curve

Justin Case

2,195 posts

133 months

Tuesday 1st September 2015
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battered said:
People here aren't comparing like with like. The ones favouring older cars aren't factoring in the reaction of others. Yes, yes, you don't care what other people think. That's fine. But people's behaviour towards you shifts if you show up in (say) an 04 plate Audi compared to a smaller, newer item. If you can work round that, fine. But there will be things happening that you can't or won't see.
Most people I know who are non-petrolheads haven't a clue how the registration system works; they've just worked out whwt the latest number is and it's already changed. They won't look beyond the badge, and any Audi regardless of age trumps a new Hyundai I10 any day. I'm neutral on the matter, I buy a car solely for me and the family and it can be any make.

battered

4,088 posts

146 months

Tuesday 1st September 2015
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Don't kid yourself, they know how old the car is. I'm not comparing a Hyundai i10 with an Audi, that's not realistic. I'm talking broadly comparable models. To do otherwise is man-maths, and I do it myself.

TVRJAS

2,391 posts

128 months

Tuesday 1st September 2015
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I'm having this Bangernomics or new (Lease) discussion with myself as we speak. The TVR is a fun toy which is where my enjoyment of driving is achieved so I don't need anything exactly thrilling as a second car.

I hope there's not a long debate as "why that car" but I've been quoted on a Nissan Pulsar Acenta 1.2 on a 24 month contract that will cost £2,050 per year,5,000 mileage (It's enough) 7.2p extra mileage charge with changing the colour included in that price ( No maintenance)

I have a Banger (2001 Nissan Primera 1.8 se estate,mileage under 50k ) that using the blog here have a full list of what it's total costs have been over 26 months( £109 per month, £1306 per year). So for just over £700 a year I can have a brand new shiny thing to drive around in.

Thing is the Nissan Primera does all that it's needed to do,always starts,plods along in relative comfort compared to the TVR and quite honestly I'm as happy as Larry driving it 2,500 per year.At under 50k mileage there's still plenty of life left in it but the last m.o.t means there could be a big bill looming as the cross members are corroded and it's 14 years old.

I pay £225 in road tax on the Primera,the Pulsar is included,I average 35mpg the Pulsar says 56.5 which however accurate it's still going to be better than 35.(Not that it makes much difference with the low miles)

There's part of me thinking for £700 a year I can have what should be a problem free new car,I have very good faith that the Primera should be reliable but as above a bill is looming which will be more than what the car is worth.

I have a strange guilt and sadness feeling to scrap the Primera when at the low miles it has,the low costs and when it does everything I need it to do it just seems a shame. To have a brand new car to do so little mileage does seem pointless but I still come to the same conclusion it's £700 a year more to drive a 65 plate car opposed to a Y plate. It stands a good chance my annual mileage would increase as I would be more inclined to use the Pulsar than I do the Primera which saves some mileage put on the TVR.

EDITED

Noticed my 1st mistake in man maths... I need to add fuel on the £700 difference biggrin It's still very tempting to cut out all the hassle of selling a car again.





Edited by TVRJAS on Tuesday 1st September 23:49

Ghost91

2,964 posts

109 months

Tuesday 1st September 2015
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battered said:
If I lose a day's pay, that's a monthly payment.
Here's the big thing in favour of leasing for me.

I won't buy a new car as new = depreciation. I like old cars but to have one, as a self employed contractor, I really need two as I can't justify missing a day's pay because I need to dick about sorting out a broken car - one old car is broken, leave it at garage and use second old car. If I weren't able to have more than one car, and really with my current parking situation I shouldn't (but do anyway) a lease deal makes perfect sense and on several occasions this year alone would of paid for itself.

I've been very anti lease cars but sooner or later Im sure I'll give in, and probably enjoy owning something brand new.

TheAngryDog

12,394 posts

208 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
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rongagin said:
TheAngryDog said:
I think it would irk with me on a brand new car. The reason for this thread by the OP is for the lack of issues when buying new, and on day one your car had an issue. Minor it may be.
Bathtub curve
I'm sure that means something, I don't know what though.. Could be an insult? Who knows!

TVRJAS

2,391 posts

128 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
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SidewaysSi

10,742 posts

233 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
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Forgetting money, most new cars are dull white goods. Not worth the pain IMO.

I don't buy into the 'old cars are unreliable' thing either if bought well.

I always run older stuff but I will never buy anything that doesn't have a full history and evidence of work done. I live in London so don't have the space or time to work on my cars so have them fettled my marque specialists.

2 of my current cars are:

1997 BMW 328i coupe. 72k miles, 2 owners, full history. I gave it to a specialist for a once - over and a service. Clean bill of health.

Other is a Mercedes W124 E220. Bought on 87k miles with full history and 1 owner. I have put another 11k miles on it. Total cost has been £100 for a service

Neither has let me downn and I have no doubt both would cross Europe tomorrow if I needed them to.

They get positive attention and comments and I have taken them to see clients - certainly don't get any different treatment. Not sure what sort of clients you all have but mine just want me to work hard and do my job well, rather than drive around in a new Golf.

I don't buy ropey old cars from a dodgy dealers with nothing more than a few MoTs. In all my driving life this approach has never let me down.

Edited by SidewaysSi on Wednesday 2nd September 09:22

neil1jnr

1,460 posts

154 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
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battered said:
People here aren't comparing like with like. The ones favouring older cars aren't factoring in the reaction of others. Yes, yes, you don't care what other people think. That's fine. But people's behaviour towards you shifts if you show up in (say) an 04 plate Audi compared to a smaller, newer item. If you can work round that, fine. But there will be things happening that you can't or won't see.
Interesting, I am not quite sure where you are going here but would appreciate it if you can expand a bit? I have recently changed from driving a new Fiesta ST3 everyday used for commuting and for fun, to a £1K Mitsubishi Carisma diesel with 50K miles on the clock for commuting and an Evo VI TME for the weekend.

I haven't seen a shift in anyones behaviour towards me at work for example, now that I am driving an 03 plate saloon rather than a 14 plate hatch...


Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
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The hard thing is finding a good banger in the first place either actually locating one or being able to determine if it is a dud or not (not everyone is skilled or able to tell).

confused_buyer

6,610 posts

180 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
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battered said:
in (say) an 04 plate Audi compared to a smaller, newer item. If you can work round that, fine. But there will be things happening that you can't or won't see.
The vast majority of buyers are so brand obsessed they'll see an 04-plate Audi as way above a 14-plate Focus (or perhaps that is what you are saying).

(I'm also getting old - I think 04-plate Audi and think "quite new car"!). frown


confused_buyer

6,610 posts

180 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
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Justin Case said:
Most people I know who are non-petrolheads haven't a clue how the registration system works; .
That is very true. Many can work out the 07, 08 etc. numbers but about 90% of people haven't a clue on the 5 & 6 series so have no idea whether a 59 is older than a 52 or a 64 etc.

RYH64E

7,960 posts

243 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
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Welshbeef said:
The hard thing is finding a good banger in the first place either actually locating one or being able to determine if it is a dud or not (not everyone is skilled or able to tell).
Even a good, well maintained 'banger' has the possibility for big costs. Two examples spring to mind, a £2k bill for injectors and pump on an 09 reg Jaguar X type (70k miles, with full main dealer service history), and an even bigger bill a friend of mine got stuck with for fixing the folding roof on a Mistubishi Colt - hinges, dampers and an ecu (yes, the hood has it's own ecu apparently) cost more than the car was worth. Older cars are a gamble, and as cars get ever more complex so the gamble gets bigger.

Sheepshanks

32,529 posts

118 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
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confused_buyer said:
Justin Case said:
Most people I know who are non-petrolheads haven't a clue how the registration system works; .
That is very true. Many can work out the 07, 08 etc. numbers but about 90% of people haven't a clue on the 5 & 6 series so have no idea whether a 59 is older than a 52 or a 64 etc.
I've got a 54 reg C Class Estate and get quite a few "it's cracking on now, isn't it?" comments. Some cars are pretty timeless but I parked next to a new one the other day and it really did look like it was from another era.


Edited by Sheepshanks on Wednesday 2nd September 10:34

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
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Sheepshanks said:
I've got a 54 reg C Class Estate and get quite a few "it's cracking now, isn't it?" comments now. Some cars are pretty timeless but I parked next to a new one the other day and it really did look like it from another era.
Exactly.

Compare a E39 to an F10 BMW worlds apart and the F30 is the same size as the E39

confused_buyer

6,610 posts

180 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
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Sheepshanks said:
I've got a 54 reg C Class Estate and get quite a few "it's cracking on now, isn't it?" comments. Some cars are pretty timeless but I parked next to a new one the other day and it really did look like it was from another era.


Edited by Sheepshanks on Wednesday 2nd September 10:34
Maybe they know about cars - many don't. My OH is currently driving a rust bucket 52-plate C-Class - all her work colleagues (all of whom are smart people and mostly drive pretty new cars) think it is fabulous. It is horrible.

A car is a car. Different people like different things. Good luck to banger drivers and good luck to those who spank silly money on a new one whilst living in a rubbish house - it is a free country and we'll all be dead soon so worry about other things.

I'd also add that anyone who serious cares about the age/model/price of the car you drive should be avoided at all costs, or better shot.

Crusoe

4,068 posts

230 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
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RYH64E said:
Even a good, well maintained 'banger' has the possibility for big costs. Two examples spring to mind, a £2k bill for injectors and pump on an 09 reg Jaguar X type (70k miles, with full main dealer service history), and an even bigger bill a friend of mine got stuck with for fixing the folding roof on a Mistubishi Colt - hinges, dampers and an ecu (yes, the hood has it's own ecu apparently) cost more than the car was worth. Older cars are a gamble, and as cars get ever more complex so the gamble gets bigger.
True, and why I usually buy mine approved used, 6-8 years old with 40-80k miles (paying 20-40% of list price) with a full warranty that can be extended and usually get two years thrown into the deal. Had some big bills but always been covered by the warranty and I usually get something fun that will hold it's value (current Z4MC possibly appreciating slightly) and only keep them for a couple of years. There is MOT cover if there is anything needing done so not going to cost anything till the second year MOT which I would usually be traded in before hitting.

Costs are minimal with 1 service and one set or rear tyres in the two years (I do about 6-8k miles a year), £500 road tax and usually a few thousand in depreciation. Current Z4MC (pistonheads so bought with cash) hasn't cost anything in the last 6 months other than some screen wash and would probably sell for what I paid or slightly more if I waited for a buyer. Free motoring in a great car has to beat even a £99 a month city car lease. Quite happy to average more than 25mpg so it isn't even that bad on fuel.

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
Crusoe said:
True, and why I usually buy mine approved used, 6-8 years old with 40-80k miles (paying 20-40% of list price) with a full warranty that can be extended and usually get two years thrown into the deal. Had some big bills but always been covered by the warranty and I usually get something fun that will hold it's value (current Z4MC possibly appreciating slightly) and only keep them for a couple of years.

Costs are minimal with 1 service and one set or rear tyres in the two years (I do about 6-8k miles a year), £500 road tax and usually a few thousand in depreciation. Current Z4MC (pistonheads so bought with cash) hasn't cost anything in the last 6 months other than some screen wash and would probably sell for what I paid or slightly more if I waited for a buyer. Free motoring in a great car has to beat even a £99 a month city car lease. Quite happy to average more than 25mpg so it isn't even that bad on fuel.
Which brand sells approved used 6-8 years old? Try 0-4 at best specifically with BMW.