Bangernomics verses New Cars
Discussion
RB Will said:
greenarrow said:
Thankfully my car got written off recently and gave me a chance to bail before the next round of bills and I've just gone and bought a bangernomic £575 Ford Focus Mk1.
For me its a gamble as I have no mechanical expertise, but I figured that as deprecation was now zero, I can afford to spend £100-£150 per month on repairs if necessary and still motor reasonably cheaply compared with a lease, or another £5-£6000 car which depreciates by about £100 a month. It'll be interesting to see how it goes.
If you don't need something as big as a Focus you can get some small stuff like an Aygo etc for £99 a month. Brand new car, modern entertainment and safety, no worries about fixing it and much lower running costs than a 10-15 year old Focus. For me its a gamble as I have no mechanical expertise, but I figured that as deprecation was now zero, I can afford to spend £100-£150 per month on repairs if necessary and still motor reasonably cheaply compared with a lease, or another £5-£6000 car which depreciates by about £100 a month. It'll be interesting to see how it goes.
Edited by greenarrow on Tuesday 19th November 14:12
Obviously if the Focus never throws up bills then you are quids in after 6-7 months.
Justin Case said:
Our choice is two dull but reliable Japanese Domestic Appliances, but I hope to add a more interesting weekend toy to the fleet before I die of boredom 
Well four years on and we still have the two JDAs. In that time the Toyota Auris has needed a new clutch cost £260 and the Mazda 6 a new front wheel bearing and a steering link, total cost £180. Otherwise it has just been routine servicing and the normal consumables, which have totalled about £420 each, a grand total of £1280 or if adding on depreciation and tax and insurance for the second car, then about £155 per month plus petrol to run two reliable cars ☺ Bangernomics 2, new cars 0ZeroGroundZero said:
In reply to the OP. Its always an interesting comparison to look in to the overall costs of owning a car versus renting one.
In my VERY simple maths terms ignoring servicing and repairs, to compare bangernomics with renting it would play out like this....
Cheap renting example
£350 per month
12,000 miles per year limitation
Length of rent = 3 years
End of renting term and you give the car back.
Cost = £12,600
Cheap ownership example
Buy affordable car for say £3000
No limitation on miles per year
Own it until you want to change
End of ownership you likely have a car that can not depreciate any more below £1500 (private sale, not trade).
Cost = £1500 (in depreciation only)
Now factor in a few additionals. Assume servicing is similar, so no difference to consider here. But assume more repairs required on the banger. Lets say each MOT it is discovered a £500 repair bill (to say provide an average bills over the ownership years).
If looking at a 3 year comparison renting would cost £12,600 and banger ownership would be £3000.
At the end of the 3 years with renting you are back to square one looking for a new car to buy or to rent, but with banger ownership you are only under your own pressure to change if you want something different.
If the difference in those costs is what you are happy with to be seen in a latest shape car then all is good.
350/month isn't particularly cheap. My deals weren't even spectacular but a 3+23 at £136/month for a new Fiesta ST line and 6+23 Seat Arona DSG. on the seat over the term I will be approx 20k over and it will cost circa £600. There's no tax or MOTs and only 1 service to do. I was actually looking at buying a nearly new ish small hatch for around £5k but l found better value in leasing. New car lease Vs much older car isn't really much of a comparison. In my VERY simple maths terms ignoring servicing and repairs, to compare bangernomics with renting it would play out like this....
Cheap renting example
£350 per month
12,000 miles per year limitation
Length of rent = 3 years
End of renting term and you give the car back.
Cost = £12,600
Cheap ownership example
Buy affordable car for say £3000
No limitation on miles per year
Own it until you want to change
End of ownership you likely have a car that can not depreciate any more below £1500 (private sale, not trade).
Cost = £1500 (in depreciation only)
Now factor in a few additionals. Assume servicing is similar, so no difference to consider here. But assume more repairs required on the banger. Lets say each MOT it is discovered a £500 repair bill (to say provide an average bills over the ownership years).
If looking at a 3 year comparison renting would cost £12,600 and banger ownership would be £3000.
At the end of the 3 years with renting you are back to square one looking for a new car to buy or to rent, but with banger ownership you are only under your own pressure to change if you want something different.
If the difference in those costs is what you are happy with to be seen in a latest shape car then all is good.
Puzzles said:
Thought I'd update as I've sold my Golf which I bought new 12 years ago.
Overall it cost me £900 a year in depreciation or 7.5p per mile. Very reasonable IMO, I'm in the buy new and hold camp.
That's interesting to note. How much did you pay and what did you sell it for? Anything big go wrong that you had to sort out yourself (ie out of warranty)?Overall it cost me £900 a year in depreciation or 7.5p per mile. Very reasonable IMO, I'm in the buy new and hold camp.
I'm not going total banger but I still see the value in buying something older that's lost a lot of it's value.
I bought a 2008 S Class for £7,500, and it had around 64k on the clock when I bought it. I had it two years and spent around £2.5k on it in maintenance although I bought from a dealer and used the warranty in the first 4 months. I then sold it for £5,650 so in total it cost me about £4,300 to own and run an S Class for two years or I could have owned a Dacia on PCP for two years. I call the S Class a win.
I just sold my Shogun Sport, paid £2,500 for it and did about 15k in it over 18 months. Just sold it for £2200 and spent less than a grand maintaining it. So it cost me £1200 to own and there were no signs it would need anything other than a service next time round.
We'll see how my Saab serves me, just paid £2500 for it....
I bought a 2008 S Class for £7,500, and it had around 64k on the clock when I bought it. I had it two years and spent around £2.5k on it in maintenance although I bought from a dealer and used the warranty in the first 4 months. I then sold it for £5,650 so in total it cost me about £4,300 to own and run an S Class for two years or I could have owned a Dacia on PCP for two years. I call the S Class a win.
I just sold my Shogun Sport, paid £2,500 for it and did about 15k in it over 18 months. Just sold it for £2200 and spent less than a grand maintaining it. So it cost me £1200 to own and there were no signs it would need anything other than a service next time round.
We'll see how my Saab serves me, just paid £2500 for it....
RB Will said:
greenarrow said:
Thankfully my car got written off recently and gave me a chance to bail before the next round of bills and I've just gone and bought a bangernomic £575 Ford Focus Mk1.
For me its a gamble as I have no mechanical expertise, but I figured that as deprecation was now zero, I can afford to spend £100-£150 per month on repairs if necessary and still motor reasonably cheaply compared with a lease, or another £5-£6000 car which depreciates by about £100 a month. It'll be interesting to see how it goes.
If you don't need something as big as a Focus you can get some small stuff like an Aygo etc for £99 a month. Brand new car, modern entertainment and safety, no worries about fixing it and much lower running costs than a 10-15 year old Focus. For me its a gamble as I have no mechanical expertise, but I figured that as deprecation was now zero, I can afford to spend £100-£150 per month on repairs if necessary and still motor reasonably cheaply compared with a lease, or another £5-£6000 car which depreciates by about £100 a month. It'll be interesting to see how it goes.
Edited by greenarrow on Tuesday 19th November 14:12
Obviously if the Focus never throws up bills then you are quids in after 6-7 months.
The Shed Focus lasted in our family from November 2019 to Christmas 2022. I had it for 18 months and my daughter then took it on where it had a hard life as a motorway hack from home to her Uni, 200+ miles away and a Domino Pizza delivery vehicle!
In that time, it was treated to one oil change (in 25,000 miles). That was it for servicing! Oh and it had two pairs of front tyres, but they were only £60 a corner Kumhos, so no deal breaker.
The first MOT was horrendous. It failed on a trailing arm bush and it was all the labour from our mechanic having to cut off and remove and replace the said bush. Second and third MOTs were a bit cheaper, around the £200 mark.
We sold it for £700 so made £125 profit on buying price. All in all, it cost approx £1,300 on servicing, MOTs and tyres, minus the £125 profit.
Compare that with your £99 per month Aygo which would have cost us £3665 in rentals and as you can see, we were well ahead going the bangernomic route. We also have the satisfaction that the old Focus has been sold and lives on, so all good for the planet as I remain of the belief that mending and continuing with older cars (the Focus MOT emissions report showed very low readings) is better than buying a newly built car every 2 or 3 years.
Alex_225 said:
I'm not going total banger but I still see the value in buying something older that's lost a lot of it's value.
I bought a 2008 S Class for £7,500, and it had around 64k on the clock when I bought it. I had it two years and spent around £2.5k on it in maintenance although I bought from a dealer and used the warranty in the first 4 months. I then sold it for £5,650 so in total it cost me about £4,300 to own and run an S Class for two years or I could have owned a Dacia on PCP for two years. I call the S Class a win.
I just sold my Shogun Sport, paid £2,500 for it and did about 15k in it over 18 months. Just sold it for £2200 and spent less than a grand maintaining it. So it cost me £1200 to own and there were no signs it would need anything other than a service next time round.
We'll see how my Saab serves me, just paid £2500 for it....
Nice going with the S Class. I did wonder if I was about to read about a brave pill fail but it sounds like you've done well. £1.25k a year for a £7.5k limo with all the luxuries!I bought a 2008 S Class for £7,500, and it had around 64k on the clock when I bought it. I had it two years and spent around £2.5k on it in maintenance although I bought from a dealer and used the warranty in the first 4 months. I then sold it for £5,650 so in total it cost me about £4,300 to own and run an S Class for two years or I could have owned a Dacia on PCP for two years. I call the S Class a win.
I just sold my Shogun Sport, paid £2,500 for it and did about 15k in it over 18 months. Just sold it for £2200 and spent less than a grand maintaining it. So it cost me £1200 to own and there were no signs it would need anything other than a service next time round.
We'll see how my Saab serves me, just paid £2500 for it....
I think my best has been an MGF that I got in return for a Volvo S60 2.4T that I was going to scrap (it had 6 months MOT, loads of issues that I'd highlighted to the MGF seller). I would have got about £300 for the S60 as scrap (judging by previous experiences with scrap buyers). So essentially I paid £300 for the MGF. I then sold the hard top for £300. After about 8 months (at the end of summer!), I scrapped the MGF (the clutch went) and got about £250 for it.
Hoofy said:
Alex_225 said:
I'm not going total banger but I still see the value in buying something older that's lost a lot of it's value.
I bought a 2008 S Class for £7,500, and it had around 64k on the clock when I bought it. I had it two years and spent around £2.5k on it in maintenance although I bought from a dealer and used the warranty in the first 4 months. I then sold it for £5,650 so in total it cost me about £4,300 to own and run an S Class for two years or I could have owned a Dacia on PCP for two years. I call the S Class a win.
I just sold my Shogun Sport, paid £2,500 for it and did about 15k in it over 18 months. Just sold it for £2200 and spent less than a grand maintaining it. So it cost me £1200 to own and there were no signs it would need anything other than a service next time round.
We'll see how my Saab serves me, just paid £2500 for it....
Nice going with the S Class. I did wonder if I was about to read about a brave pill fail but it sounds like you've done well. £1.25k a year for a £7.5k limo with all the luxuries!I bought a 2008 S Class for £7,500, and it had around 64k on the clock when I bought it. I had it two years and spent around £2.5k on it in maintenance although I bought from a dealer and used the warranty in the first 4 months. I then sold it for £5,650 so in total it cost me about £4,300 to own and run an S Class for two years or I could have owned a Dacia on PCP for two years. I call the S Class a win.
I just sold my Shogun Sport, paid £2,500 for it and did about 15k in it over 18 months. Just sold it for £2200 and spent less than a grand maintaining it. So it cost me £1200 to own and there were no signs it would need anything other than a service next time round.
We'll see how my Saab serves me, just paid £2500 for it....
I think my best has been an MGF that I got in return for a Volvo S60 2.4T that I was going to scrap (it had 6 months MOT, loads of issues that I'd highlighted to the MGF seller). I would have got about £300 for the S60 as scrap (judging by previous experiences with scrap buyers). So essentially I paid £300 for the MGF. I then sold the hard top for £300. After about 8 months (at the end of summer!), I scrapped the MGF (the clutch went) and got about £250 for it.
That MGF sounds like a right winner!
The thing is if you buy the right kinds of cars they don't feel old fashioned or certainly not to the extent it detracts from enjoying the car. My Saab 9-3 has 225bhp (mapped) and does over 50mpg, it's convertible and the main give away with it's age is the lack of Bluetooth connectivity. Otherwise it's pretty modern in every other sense.
Hoofy said:
That's interesting to note. How much did you pay and what did you sell it for? Anything big go wrong that you had to sort out yourself (ie out of warranty)?
It cost £14,000 new (+/- £100) they had a "sale" on at the time and I sold it for £3200. I could have probably got more but wanted it sold quickly and as painlessly as possible.Battery and exhaust plus the obvious things like tyres and brakes.
Pretty good I thought.
nickfrog said:
Sounds good although I suspect the last 3 years have helped a bit.
Maybe or maybe the COL crisis helped as it was at the cheaper end of the market. I'd have guessed even before the market went mad I'd have probably still got £2,500 for it so overall it doesn't change too much.Alex_225 said:
Hoofy said:
Alex_225 said:
I'm not going total banger but I still see the value in buying something older that's lost a lot of it's value.
I bought a 2008 S Class for £7,500, and it had around 64k on the clock when I bought it. I had it two years and spent around £2.5k on it in maintenance although I bought from a dealer and used the warranty in the first 4 months. I then sold it for £5,650 so in total it cost me about £4,300 to own and run an S Class for two years or I could have owned a Dacia on PCP for two years. I call the S Class a win.
I just sold my Shogun Sport, paid £2,500 for it and did about 15k in it over 18 months. Just sold it for £2200 and spent less than a grand maintaining it. So it cost me £1200 to own and there were no signs it would need anything other than a service next time round.
We'll see how my Saab serves me, just paid £2500 for it....
Nice going with the S Class. I did wonder if I was about to read about a brave pill fail but it sounds like you've done well. £1.25k a year for a £7.5k limo with all the luxuries!I bought a 2008 S Class for £7,500, and it had around 64k on the clock when I bought it. I had it two years and spent around £2.5k on it in maintenance although I bought from a dealer and used the warranty in the first 4 months. I then sold it for £5,650 so in total it cost me about £4,300 to own and run an S Class for two years or I could have owned a Dacia on PCP for two years. I call the S Class a win.
I just sold my Shogun Sport, paid £2,500 for it and did about 15k in it over 18 months. Just sold it for £2200 and spent less than a grand maintaining it. So it cost me £1200 to own and there were no signs it would need anything other than a service next time round.
We'll see how my Saab serves me, just paid £2500 for it....
I think my best has been an MGF that I got in return for a Volvo S60 2.4T that I was going to scrap (it had 6 months MOT, loads of issues that I'd highlighted to the MGF seller). I would have got about £300 for the S60 as scrap (judging by previous experiences with scrap buyers). So essentially I paid £300 for the MGF. I then sold the hard top for £300. After about 8 months (at the end of summer!), I scrapped the MGF (the clutch went) and got about £250 for it.
That MGF sounds like a right winner!
The thing is if you buy the right kinds of cars they don't feel old fashioned or certainly not to the extent it detracts from enjoying the car. My Saab 9-3 has 225bhp (mapped) and does over 50mpg, it's convertible and the main give away with it's age is the lack of Bluetooth connectivity. Otherwise it's pretty modern in every other sense.
I think the CL500 suspension is the thing to look out for but it's not really expensive to deal with - not like, for instance, the dreaded tapping sound on a DB9's V12 engine.
Puzzles said:
Hoofy said:
That's interesting to note. How much did you pay and what did you sell it for? Anything big go wrong that you had to sort out yourself (ie out of warranty)?
It cost £14,000 new (+/- £100) they had a "sale" on at the time and I sold it for £3200. I could have probably got more but wanted it sold quickly and as painlessly as possible.Battery and exhaust plus the obvious things like tyres and brakes.
Pretty good I thought.
Hoofy said:
Alex_225 said:
Hoofy said:
Alex_225 said:
I'm not going total banger but I still see the value in buying something older that's lost a lot of it's value.
I bought a 2008 S Class for £7,500, and it had around 64k on the clock when I bought it. I had it two years and spent around £2.5k on it in maintenance although I bought from a dealer and used the warranty in the first 4 months. I then sold it for £5,650 so in total it cost me about £4,300 to own and run an S Class for two years or I could have owned a Dacia on PCP for two years. I call the S Class a win.
I just sold my Shogun Sport, paid £2,500 for it and did about 15k in it over 18 months. Just sold it for £2200 and spent less than a grand maintaining it. So it cost me £1200 to own and there were no signs it would need anything other than a service next time round.
We'll see how my Saab serves me, just paid £2500 for it....
Nice going with the S Class. I did wonder if I was about to read about a brave pill fail but it sounds like you've done well. £1.25k a year for a £7.5k limo with all the luxuries!I bought a 2008 S Class for £7,500, and it had around 64k on the clock when I bought it. I had it two years and spent around £2.5k on it in maintenance although I bought from a dealer and used the warranty in the first 4 months. I then sold it for £5,650 so in total it cost me about £4,300 to own and run an S Class for two years or I could have owned a Dacia on PCP for two years. I call the S Class a win.
I just sold my Shogun Sport, paid £2,500 for it and did about 15k in it over 18 months. Just sold it for £2200 and spent less than a grand maintaining it. So it cost me £1200 to own and there were no signs it would need anything other than a service next time round.
We'll see how my Saab serves me, just paid £2500 for it....
I think my best has been an MGF that I got in return for a Volvo S60 2.4T that I was going to scrap (it had 6 months MOT, loads of issues that I'd highlighted to the MGF seller). I would have got about £300 for the S60 as scrap (judging by previous experiences with scrap buyers). So essentially I paid £300 for the MGF. I then sold the hard top for £300. After about 8 months (at the end of summer!), I scrapped the MGF (the clutch went) and got about £250 for it.
That MGF sounds like a right winner!
The thing is if you buy the right kinds of cars they don't feel old fashioned or certainly not to the extent it detracts from enjoying the car. My Saab 9-3 has 225bhp (mapped) and does over 50mpg, it's convertible and the main give away with it's age is the lack of Bluetooth connectivity. Otherwise it's pretty modern in every other sense.
I think the CL500 suspension is the thing to look out for but it's not really expensive to deal with - not like, for instance, the dreaded tapping sound on a DB9's V12 engine.
The ABC suspension can be costly, just need a good specialist but even then not pennies. Mine is a 2010 which was when they had improved things from the slightly earlier W221 S and C216 CLs.
I can imagine anything with Aston Martin written on it is going to be £££££ haha
greenarrow said:
RB Will said:
greenarrow said:
Thankfully my car got written off recently and gave me a chance to bail before the next round of bills and I've just gone and bought a bangernomic £575 Ford Focus Mk1.
For me its a gamble as I have no mechanical expertise, but I figured that as deprecation was now zero, I can afford to spend £100-£150 per month on repairs if necessary and still motor reasonably cheaply compared with a lease, or another £5-£6000 car which depreciates by about £100 a month. It'll be interesting to see how it goes.
If you don't need something as big as a Focus you can get some small stuff like an Aygo etc for £99 a month. Brand new car, modern entertainment and safety, no worries about fixing it and much lower running costs than a 10-15 year old Focus. For me its a gamble as I have no mechanical expertise, but I figured that as deprecation was now zero, I can afford to spend £100-£150 per month on repairs if necessary and still motor reasonably cheaply compared with a lease, or another £5-£6000 car which depreciates by about £100 a month. It'll be interesting to see how it goes.
Edited by greenarrow on Tuesday 19th November 14:12
Obviously if the Focus never throws up bills then you are quids in after 6-7 months.
The Shed Focus lasted in our family from November 2019 to Christmas 2022. I had it for 18 months and my daughter then took it on where it had a hard life as a motorway hack from home to her Uni, 200+ miles away and a Domino Pizza delivery vehicle!
In that time, it was treated to one oil change (in 25,000 miles). That was it for servicing! Oh and it had two pairs of front tyres, but they were only £60 a corner Kumhos, so no deal breaker.
The first MOT was horrendous. It failed on a trailing arm bush and it was all the labour from our mechanic having to cut off and remove and replace the said bush. Second and third MOTs were a bit cheaper, around the £200 mark.
We sold it for £700 so made £125 profit on buying price. All in all, it cost approx £1,300 on servicing, MOTs and tyres, minus the £125 profit.
Compare that with your £99 per month Aygo which would have cost us £3665 in rentals and as you can see, we were well ahead going the bangernomic route. We also have the satisfaction that the old Focus has been sold and lives on, so all good for the planet as I remain of the belief that mending and continuing with older cars (the Focus MOT emissions report showed very low readings) is better than buying a newly built car every 2 or 3 years.
It may have been a bit closer than you think though. The Aygo is by far the cheaper car to run so if you add to your £1200 the saving the Aygo would have had (about £200 in tax, about £1500 in fuel) you are at nearly £3k then the Aygo is in a lower insurance group too which should give unknown savings but potentially decent if you had a youngun on it or as primary driver then it all works out you have probably saved less than you think. Probably only one MOT away from breaking even or the insurance may even have swung it the other way.
Alex_225 said:
Yeah it was all common stuff. We need a wheel speed sensor on the other half's ML so it's common of Mercs of that era anyway. The gearbox module, again a common thing. I wouldn't buy a car like that privately if I could help it.
The ABC suspension can be costly, just need a good specialist but even then not pennies. Mine is a 2010 which was when they had improved things from the slightly earlier W221 S and C216 CLs.
I can imagine anything with Aston Martin written on it is going to be £££££ haha
The way I see it is that it's an extra cost that will result in a decent CL500. The ABC suspension can be costly, just need a good specialist but even then not pennies. Mine is a 2010 which was when they had improved things from the slightly earlier W221 S and C216 CLs.
I can imagine anything with Aston Martin written on it is going to be £££££ haha
Oh, select the dropdown for the DB9 tick: https://bamfordrose.com/repairs/engine-repair/#158...
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff