Bangernomics verses New Cars
Discussion
surveyor said:
Have ended up with a new XC60. Yes it's a payment - but other than the servicing I know what it's costing me, it's efficient, modern and comfortable. If it breaks, they fix it. Job done.
This is precisely my point. There is real value in predictability and stress-free motoring. brickwall said:
surveyor said:
Have ended up with a new XC60. Yes it's a payment - but other than the servicing I know what it's costing me, it's efficient, modern and comfortable. If it breaks, they fix it. Job done.
This is precisely my point. There is real value in predictability and stress-free motoring. brickwall said:
This is precisely my point. There is real value in predictability and stress-free motoring.
Totally agree with this, when your wife and children are being transported about, the last thing you want is them stranded whilst your at work. We drove banger's for years whilst starting out with house/kids etc. Now i'm in a position to afford a monthly payment and it gives me peace of mind and the Mrs drives a new car win/win.Like someone said earlier, if you have a choice of 4 old cars to use then fine, but when its's your only car I want as less hassle as possibly.
Although I am looking at maybe buying a 10 year old petrol A3 for me to use as a second car, but if it does break I'll get it fixed when it suits me as it wont stop me in my tracks as I walk to the station and use the train for work.
bobbsie said:
brickwall said:
This is precisely my point. There is real value in predictability and stress-free motoring.
i have no proof, but i wonder if the most stress-free years would be 2 - 5?My own experience has had me broken down more with very new cars than with slightly older ones.
I'm currently doing both new car AND bangernomics. In the same car. Yes, it's possible. Just buy a new car, and keep it FOREVER! Make your own banger. Then you know it's a good one!
My folks currently have 2 cars in their garage which are 13 years old and were bought new. The depreciation on a new car only hurts if you sell. If you buy a car to keep it, you'll never feel that pain. They've since bought new all over again, but still keep the old cars in the fleet for polishing pleasure (classic Scooby in mint condition) and winter hack (Golf GTi TD). Why keep the old cars too? Well, they know the history, know they need nothing at all doing, and they cost very little to tax/insure/oilchange.
Benefits of buying new and keeping long:
1) It's your car. Nobody else has farted on that seat but you.
2) You know it was run in properly
3) You know it was never abused
4) You know it wasn't unloved for 3 years before being washed and polished once for resale.
5) You know every squeak, rattle and noise from new, so you know what's TADTS and what's getting worse.
6) You know the services schedule hasn't been fudged
7) You don't mind putting good tyres on, because you'll get the benefit, not the next owner
8) Ditto quality pads, disks, dampers, fluids, and consumables.
9) You can even upgrade things if you wish. If you know it's a keeper, maybe investing in a few tweaks and toys is justifiable, especially if you can return it to standard with the original parts, which you'll have, because you did the mods.
10) Winter alloys and tyres become a better investment every year you can use them. Keep the same car, get more years out of them.
Downsides:
1) You'd better know you're really going to keep it, and your circumstances or tastes aren't going to change. That means this will work best for functional cars (family wagons) than fun cars, which are more subject to chop and change. Having said that, it works well for "dream" cars that you couldn't sell if you wanted to. (See my dad's classic Scooby for details.)
2) Ever year there will be a "should it stay or go" dilemma, and you have to be strong.
3) You will eventually be driving a 10+ year old car and need to get pleasure from the fact that it's paid for, yours and costs nothing to run, because the pleasure of having a new car will be long gone.
Having seen how well this works for my folks, I'm doing the same.
I grabbed a last-of-the mk6 Golf estates for family duties on a 0% finance deal from VWFS. They clearly wanted shot of them before the Mk7 hit the showrooms, so I got a deal on it that made it attractive compared to Approved Used.
I take good care of it, and plan to run it into the ground. 2.5 years in, I'll have to stay very strong at the 3 year mark, when the new Passat tempts me to start the process again. No. No, I won't do it.
My folks currently have 2 cars in their garage which are 13 years old and were bought new. The depreciation on a new car only hurts if you sell. If you buy a car to keep it, you'll never feel that pain. They've since bought new all over again, but still keep the old cars in the fleet for polishing pleasure (classic Scooby in mint condition) and winter hack (Golf GTi TD). Why keep the old cars too? Well, they know the history, know they need nothing at all doing, and they cost very little to tax/insure/oilchange.
Benefits of buying new and keeping long:
1) It's your car. Nobody else has farted on that seat but you.
2) You know it was run in properly
3) You know it was never abused
4) You know it wasn't unloved for 3 years before being washed and polished once for resale.
5) You know every squeak, rattle and noise from new, so you know what's TADTS and what's getting worse.
6) You know the services schedule hasn't been fudged
7) You don't mind putting good tyres on, because you'll get the benefit, not the next owner
8) Ditto quality pads, disks, dampers, fluids, and consumables.
9) You can even upgrade things if you wish. If you know it's a keeper, maybe investing in a few tweaks and toys is justifiable, especially if you can return it to standard with the original parts, which you'll have, because you did the mods.
10) Winter alloys and tyres become a better investment every year you can use them. Keep the same car, get more years out of them.
Downsides:
1) You'd better know you're really going to keep it, and your circumstances or tastes aren't going to change. That means this will work best for functional cars (family wagons) than fun cars, which are more subject to chop and change. Having said that, it works well for "dream" cars that you couldn't sell if you wanted to. (See my dad's classic Scooby for details.)
2) Ever year there will be a "should it stay or go" dilemma, and you have to be strong.
3) You will eventually be driving a 10+ year old car and need to get pleasure from the fact that it's paid for, yours and costs nothing to run, because the pleasure of having a new car will be long gone.
Having seen how well this works for my folks, I'm doing the same.
I grabbed a last-of-the mk6 Golf estates for family duties on a 0% finance deal from VWFS. They clearly wanted shot of them before the Mk7 hit the showrooms, so I got a deal on it that made it attractive compared to Approved Used.
I take good care of it, and plan to run it into the ground. 2.5 years in, I'll have to stay very strong at the 3 year mark, when the new Passat tempts me to start the process again. No. No, I won't do it.
Sounds like decent approach. I wonder how long you can stick it out though. I see all sorts of excuses on here for people changing perfectly good cars.
Thinks like 'I had to get rid of it as it was starting to cost me money'. In other words 'I'm fed up with it and begrudge maintaining it'.
And, for the weekend toy, the evergreen 'I'm thinking of selling because it's a shame to see it not get much use'. In other words 'I'm fed up with it and don't want to admit it'.
Nothing wrong with any of this but getting fed up with the car-for-life is probably the biggest hurdle to overcome
Thinks like 'I had to get rid of it as it was starting to cost me money'. In other words 'I'm fed up with it and begrudge maintaining it'.
And, for the weekend toy, the evergreen 'I'm thinking of selling because it's a shame to see it not get much use'. In other words 'I'm fed up with it and don't want to admit it'.
Nothing wrong with any of this but getting fed up with the car-for-life is probably the biggest hurdle to overcome
swisstoni said:
Nothing wrong with any of this but getting fed up with the car-for-life is probably the biggest hurdle to overcome
For sure, this is not for fun/hobby cars. This is a scheme for duty/workhorse cars only.It's like killing time in Curry's while the wife is next door in Hobbycraft or somewhere equally dull. You can guarantee there will be a dozen men looking at the 60" TVs even though they already have a perfectly good TV. But ain't nobody doing man-maths in the tumble dryer section.
rb5er said:
JumboBeef said:
All maintenance included, no deposit.
Are you sure about that? Read all the small print etc?I find it hard to believe £300 a month, no deposit and not even tyres or brakes are your problem. Any link as I just don`t see it...
A brand new car
All servicing and maintenance
Car tax
Breakdown and recovery
Windscreen and glass cover
Replacement tyres
Fully comprehensive insurance
Accident management
Fully managed service accessed 24/7/365
An all-inclusive package, no hidden fees or deposits
Substantial savings against private market costs
All costs fixed for a 2/3 year period
Paid from gross salary - saving tax and National Insurance
A wide range of choice, no restrictions unless imposed by the employer
Hassle-free motoring
Put fuel in and go.
No deposit, no credit checks.
Worth mentioning that when the car was delivered, it had moisture in the headlamp.I called one of the provided numbers, they forwarded it to the providing Audi dealer and they got back to me within the hour.At first they thought it may simply dry out but after sending them an image of the lamp, they told me to take it to my local Audi dealer (five minutes away) and get it inspected.Once there, they decided to replace the entire unit, paid for a taxi home and they called later that day to say the car was ready.They even washed it.
Edited by Digby on Monday 31st August 19:46
Digby said:
rb5er said:
JumboBeef said:
All maintenance included, no deposit.
Are you sure about that? Read all the small print etc?I find it hard to believe £300 a month, no deposit and not even tyres or brakes are your problem. Any link as I just don`t see it...
A brand new car
All servicing and maintenance
Car tax
Breakdown and recovery
Windscreen and glass cover
Replacement tyres
Fully comprehensive insurance
Accident management
Fully managed service accessed 24/7/365
An all-inclusive package, no hidden fees or deposits
Substantial savings against private market costs
All costs fixed for a 2/3 year period
Paid from gross salary - saving tax and National Insurance
A wide range of choice, no restrictions unless imposed by the employer
Hassle-free motoring
Put fuel in and go.
No deposit, no credit checks.
Worth mentioning that when the car was delivered, it had moisture in the headlamp.I called one of the provided numbers, they forwarded it to the providing Audi dealer and they got back to me within the hour.At first they thought it may simply dry out but after sending them an image of the lamp, they told me to take it to my local Audi dealer (five minutes away) and get it inspected.Once there, they decided to replace the entire unit, paid for a taxi home and they called later that day to say the car was ready.They even washed it.
Edited by Digby on Monday 31st August 19:46
Should I ever need a boring (i.e. practical) car, I'll do it.
The only issue is I can go up to a certain emissions limit.
CorbynFTW said:
The only issue is I can go up to a certain emissions limit.
We were allowed to have anything, but the costs increased quite significantly the higher we went on the ozone killing scale.The web page to make our choices was simple enough; you simply moved around slider bars relating to emissions, BIK, total costs etc etc.
Digby said:
CorbynFTW said:
The only issue is I can go up to a certain emissions limit.
We were allowed to have anything, but the costs increased quite significantly the higher we went on the ozone killing scale.The web page to make our choices was simple enough; you simply moved around slider bars relating to emissions, BIK, total costs etc etc.
I can have a GTI Golf, But not an R. A 530, but not a 535 etc.
But for a family wagon it's a no-brainer isn't it!
Some of you sound paranoid about breaking down, PH is descending into mumsnet territory here!
You can quite easily buy a fairly modern Japanese car for not much money at all, the chances of it letting you down (with a good battery and basic servicing) would be verging on remote. Maybe even less than a new German diesel. The biggest "stress" would be what, eventually £400 on a clutch?
You can quite easily buy a fairly modern Japanese car for not much money at all, the chances of it letting you down (with a good battery and basic servicing) would be verging on remote. Maybe even less than a new German diesel. The biggest "stress" would be what, eventually £400 on a clutch?
SuperHangOn said:
Some of you sound paranoid about breaking down, PH is descending into mumsnet territory here!
You can quite easily buy a fairly modern Japanese car for not much money at all, the chances of it letting you down (with a good battery and basic servicing) would be verging on remote. Maybe even less than a new German diesel. The biggest "stress" would be what, eventually £400 on a clutch?
For me it's not just the breaking down. It's the hassle of the car needing more work, which disrupts my day at least and worst case means I've got to hire cars. The last older car I had was costing me more in lost time, work and hire cars than the new one costs on lease.You can quite easily buy a fairly modern Japanese car for not much money at all, the chances of it letting you down (with a good battery and basic servicing) would be verging on remote. Maybe even less than a new German diesel. The biggest "stress" would be what, eventually £400 on a clutch?
RYH64E said:
For me, it isn't just about motoring at the lowest possible cost, I want reliable, trouble free motoring. Most years we drive down to the South of France, or Italy, or Spain for our annual family holiday, it's usually about 1000 miles each way plus a few hundred miles whilst we're there, I'm fairly confident that my new, leased E350 will get us there and back without a problem (economically and in some comfort). I wouldn't be so confident doing the same journey in a 10 year old bargain car, and breaking down in the middle of nowhere, a thousand miles from home and with a car full of kids, is a problem I don't need.
Puncture? On your way there? 300miles to go? It happened to me driving between Perugia and Bergerac, coming down into Lyon. Whereas the full size spare in my then 8 year old 129 meant I could be on my way in 15 minutes, I suspect your E350 would turn out to be unfit for purpose!
surveyor said:
For me it's not just the breaking down. It's the hassle of the car needing more work, which disrupts my day at least and worst case means I've got to hire cars. The last older car I had was costing me more in lost time, work and hire cars than the new one costs on lease.
Well not many of the cars listed in your profile would fill me with much confidence nickfrog said:
Presumably you pay BIK tax ?
Already posted a few pages back....JumboBeef said:
My quote:
Make VOLKSWAGEN Range GOLF
Model GOLF DIESEL HATCHBACK
Fuel Diesel
Derivative 2.0 TDI GTD 5dr [Nav] Colour Pearl - Deep black Options Pearl - Deep black~Jacara cloth - Grey
SALARY DEDUCTION SCHEME
Deduction from net (take home) pay £368.76 Monthly Car Tax Liability £0.40 VAT £73.75
Total Estimated Monthly Cost £442.91 SALARY SACRIFICE SCHEME
Monthly Gross Salary Sacrifice £374.17 Savings on NI (£39.66) Savings on Tax (£67.88) Savings on Superan (£34.80) Total Savings per month (£142.34) Monthly Take Home Pay reduced by £231.83 Monthly Car Tax Liability £88.90 Total Estimated Monthly Cost £320.74
Make VOLKSWAGEN Range GOLF
Model GOLF DIESEL HATCHBACK
Fuel Diesel
Derivative 2.0 TDI GTD 5dr [Nav] Colour Pearl - Deep black Options Pearl - Deep black~Jacara cloth - Grey
SALARY DEDUCTION SCHEME
Deduction from net (take home) pay £368.76 Monthly Car Tax Liability £0.40 VAT £73.75
Total Estimated Monthly Cost £442.91 SALARY SACRIFICE SCHEME
Monthly Gross Salary Sacrifice £374.17 Savings on NI (£39.66) Savings on Tax (£67.88) Savings on Superan (£34.80) Total Savings per month (£142.34) Monthly Take Home Pay reduced by £231.83 Monthly Car Tax Liability £88.90 Total Estimated Monthly Cost £320.74
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