Integra (DC2) vs Corrado VR6

Integra (DC2) vs Corrado VR6

Author
Discussion

rb5er

11,657 posts

171 months

Tuesday 1st September 2015
quotequote all
kambites said:
rb5er said:
Corrado is 90% mk3 golf.
I'd like to see your maths there, I'd say maybe 10%. In fact it shares more with the mk2 Golf than the mk3.

Edited by kambites on Monday 31st August 17:46
Dashboard and front seats as well as switchgear...mk 3 Golf.

All engines except the vr6...mk3 golf

Ancilleries....mk3 golf

Chassis...I was lead to believe....mk3 golf...it turns out mk2 golf but suspension generally mk3 golf.

Brakes....mk3 golf

So the body and rear seats are unique to the corrado. What else makes up this 90% nothing to do with a golf you speak of?

Edited by rb5er on Tuesday 1st September 17:10

kambites

67,462 posts

220 months

Tuesday 1st September 2015
quotequote all
The main dashboard and seats are, as far as I know, bespoke to the Corrado, although the seats use mk2 Golf lower frames (VW obviously copied a number of Corrado design elements in the mk3 Golf's interior, but as far as I'm aware none of the major parts were actually the same). The engines are general VW stuff so evolved with their car range - I think the 1.8 was from the mk2; the 2.0 was from the mk3; the VR6 was unique to the Corrado (at least the manual VR6, I think the auto might have used the Golf's engine).

The chassis of the original Corrado was a mixture of mk2 Golf, Passat and bespoke bits. The VR6 shifted onto the mk3 Golf for the rear suspension and picked up a handful of mk3 components at the front. The floorpan is extended mk2 Golf.

Switch gear - bugger knows, I suspect it was lifted from all over the place but hardly a major part of the car.


So the bits we're identified shared with the mk3 Golf are... a fair number of suspension components on some of the cars, some switches and two of the five engine options (not including the one the OP is talking about). Hardly "90% the same car". Don't forget the Corrado pre-dates the mk3 Golf by three years.

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 1st September 18:06

acme

Original Poster:

2,971 posts

197 months

Tuesday 1st September 2015
quotequote all
Reading performance cars March 2009 buyers guide it stated it was based on the MK2, which makes sense given it came out in 1988. Though I'm unsure how it changed between 88 & 95. Apparently lots of bits were supplied by Karmann (who built it) and are now very hard to get hold of.

rb5er

11,657 posts

171 months

Tuesday 1st September 2015
quotequote all
kambites said:
The main dashboard and seats are, as far as I know, bespoke to the Corrado, although the seats use mk2 Golf lower frames (VW obviously copied a number of Corrado design elements in the mk3 Golf's interior, but as far as I'm aware none of the major parts were actually the same). The engines are general VW stuff so evolved with their car range - I think the 1.8 was from the mk2; the 2.0 was from the mk3; the VR6 was unique to the Corrado (at least the manual VR6, I think the auto might have used the Golf's engine).

The chassis of the original Corrado was a mixture of mk2 Golf, Passat and bespoke bits. The VR6 shifted onto the mk3 Golf for the rear suspension and picked up a handful of mk3 components at the front. The floorpan is extended mk2 Golf.

Switch gear - bugger knows, I suspect it was lifted from all over the place but hardly a major part of the car.


So the bits we're identified shared with the mk3 Golf are... a fair number of suspension components on some of the cars, some switches and two of the five engine options (not including the one the OP is talking about). Hardly "90% the same car". Don't forget the Corrado pre-dates the mk3 Golf by three years.

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 1st September 18:06
Nope. Dashboard and seats are from a mk3 golf along with switchgear. All the engines all except the vr6 are the same engines as in the mk3 golf. Suspension etc the same, ancilleries, sensors etc the same. So maybe closer to 50% of the car.

Paradaxos

135 posts

117 months

Tuesday 1st September 2015
quotequote all
Isn't the VR6 quite front heavy?

Heaveho

5,279 posts

173 months

Tuesday 1st September 2015
quotequote all
Paradaxos said:
Isn't the VR6 quite front heavy?
Depends on what you're comparing it to. I didn't think so when I had mine, perhaps it would feel like that now. I can't compare it to an ITR, as I've never driven one, but I can remember how disappointed I was coming from the VR6 to a UK spec classic shape Impreza Turbo 2000, and thinking how poorly the Impreza handled in comparison to the VW.

Paradaxos

135 posts

117 months

Tuesday 1st September 2015
quotequote all
Heaveho said:
Depends on what you're comparing it to. I didn't think so when I had mine, perhaps it would feel like that now. I can't compare it to an ITR, as I've never driven one, but I can remember how disappointed I was coming from the VR6 to a UK spec classic shape Impreza Turbo 2000, and thinking how poorly the Impreza handled in comparison to the VW.
Interesting, thanks.

I'd just heard that with a driver in it it pushes 60/40 in favour of the front with that big engine.

It's not the only thing that matters of course but given that it's FWD I would have thought it tended towards understeer more than desirable.

If you say it doesn't I believe you, I would just like to understand it more.

I'd love a mint VR6 one day if they lived up to the hype.


Edited by Paradaxos on Tuesday 1st September 23:04

Dracoro

8,662 posts

244 months

Tuesday 1st September 2015
quotequote all
rb5er said:
Nope. Dashboard and seats are from a mk3 golf along with switchgear
Nonsense (since you are being abrupt in your language). The dash is from a Passat, it's very different to the mk3 golf dash. Check images online if you don't believe me.

While we're on it, the Corrado and the Golf drive rather differently (I'm comparing the VR6 models from direct experience) the Golf is "ok" but not a great by any means. The Corrado is a good example of a car that is greater than the sum of its parts.

The ITR and Corrado are both great FWD coupes but obviously do things differently. The ITR is a "sharper" more intense drive but the Corrado has a great handling balance and is the better all rounder - does comfy mile muncher with some degree of practicality as well as a fun b-road car for enthusiasts.
Which would I rather go for a drive in? Probably the ITR. Which would I rather live with/own, the Corrado VR6.

Edited by Dracoro on Tuesday 1st September 22:40

V8RX7

26,766 posts

262 months

Tuesday 1st September 2015
quotequote all
Paradaxos said:
Isn't the VR6 quite front heavy?
Yes.

You can feel the weight and it pushes on in corners unlike a MkII GTi

Terminator X

14,922 posts

203 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
Noise from the ITR is to die for. Every petrol head should own one at least once imho.

TX.

kambites

67,462 posts

220 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
rb5er said:
Nope. Dashboard and seats are from a mk3 golf along with switchgear. All the engines all except the vr6 are the same engines as in the mk3 golf. Suspension etc the same, ancilleries, sensors etc the same. So maybe closer to 50% of the car.
Which mk3 Golf are you talking about? The ones I've been in all have similar but clearly different dashboards to the Corrado - the Corrado's dial pod is wider to accomodate the three dials; it has switches beside the central vents whereas the Golf's are below the heater controls;... The Corrado is wider between the A-pillars and has the dashboard mounted lower down so there's no way the entire dashboard could fit in a Golf anyway.

I've never seen a mk3 Golf with seats that look anything like the Corrado's either. I don't think you'd be able to see over the steering wheel if you put a Corrado's seats in a Golf, they're mounted lower down.

dannyDC2

7,543 posts

167 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
At my old work there was a guy with a VR6. We never got to have a play but I'd bet they'd be pretty even.

I know which one I'd rather track, but as a road car, I'm not so sure.

Tough call.

ETA: and I wouldn't call they utterly different cars at all. They're actual quite similar, and can even be considered rivals in some case.


HayesDC2

285 posts

131 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
Owned my DC2 for about 3 years now and I love it, it's my daily driver and is quite extensively modified but after only driving this whenever I have to use a "normal" car it's the weirdest thing ever.

They seem to be increasing in value quite steadily at the moment, I guess because UK models are either made of rust or being stripped for parts. They'll be eligible for import to the US in a couple of years which may also drive the price up like it has with the R32 GTR.

You've had one before but it's worth mentioning now as they're getting on for 20 years old, check the rear arches!

Heaveho

5,279 posts

173 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
Paradaxos said:
Interesting, thanks.

I'd just heard that with a driver in it it pushes 60/40 in favour of the front with that big engine.

It's not the only thing that matters of course but given that it's FWD I would have thought it tended towards understeer more than desirable.

If you say it doesn't I believe you, I would just like to understand it more.

I'd love a mint VR6 one day if they lived up to the hype.


Edited by Paradaxos on Tuesday 1st September 23:04
I remember it understeering in the wet, but it was very throttle adjustable in the dry, and a lot of fun to drive hard in those circumstances. Certainly way more entertaining than the Impreza, which understeered a lot more the the VW.

The biggest problem you'll have with a VR6 is unreliability. Mine presented me with a myriad of issues, all the usual broken door handle, fuel pump relay, sunroof motor and rails, seized callipers type stuff, but the biggest was it glazing No.6 cylinder, and having to come to bits to put it right. I've only ever had Japanese performance cars before and after the Corrado, so living with the type of stuff it regularly threw up was a bit of a culture shock. None of the Jap stuff I've had have been anything like the headache the VR6 was in this respect, and I'd expect the ITR to hang together a lot better than the VW.

Despite all of the above, I have considered another!

Edited by Heaveho on Wednesday 2nd September 08:09

SuperVM

1,098 posts

160 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
rb5er said:
kambites said:
rb5er said:
Corrado is 90% mk3 golf.
I'd like to see your maths there, I'd say maybe 10%. In fact it shares more with the mk2 Golf than the mk3.

Edited by kambites on Monday 31st August 17:46
Dashboard and front seats as well as switchgear...mk 3 Golf.

All engines except the vr6...mk3 golf

Ancilleries....mk3 golf

Chassis...I was lead to believe....mk3 golf...it turns out mk2 golf but suspension generally mk3 golf.

Brakes....mk3 golf

So the body and rear seats are unique to the corrado. What else makes up this 90% nothing to do with a golf you speak of?

Edited by rb5er on Tuesday 1st September 17:10
Dashboard is unique to the Corrado, it isn't the same as the mk3 Golf dashboard. Agreed, they look similar, but they aren't the same. The Corrado's dashboard is the easiest one to retrofit into a mk2 Golf. Agreed the switchgear is closer to the mk3 Golf's

As for engines, don't forget the G60, also available in the mk2 Golf G60 and Rallye. The original 1.8 16v is the same unit as that in the mk2 Golf.

Things like engine mounts, brakes, hubs, etc. all bolt up to a mk2 Golf. Even the ECU wiring loom from a Corrado VR6 will plug into a '90 spec mk2 Golf's fuse box. People often fit the wider track parts from the Corrado VR6 onto a mk2 Golf when doing a VR6 conversion. Agreed the hubs are five stud, as per the mk3.

Certainly, when the Corrado was launched, it was mostly a mk2 Golf. It is even possible to bolt the front end from a Corrado onto a mk2 Golf, though it looks strange.

I agree that the Corrado is largely a Golf in a sportier body, but at launch it was a mk2, perhaps in time it picked up a bit more in common with the mk3.

aka_kerrly

12,416 posts

209 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
Dracoro said:
While we're on it, the Corrado and the Golf drive rather differently (I'm comparing the VR6 models from direct experience) the Golf is "ok" but not a great by any means. The Corrado is a good example of a car that is greater than the sum of its parts.

The ITR and Corrado are both great FWD coupes but obviously do things differently. The ITR is a "sharper" more intense drive but the Corrado has a great handling balance and is the better all rounder - does comfy mile muncher with some degree of practicality as well as a fun b-road car for enthusiasts.
Which would I rather go for a drive in? Probably the ITR. Which would I rather live with/own, the Corrado VR6.
This for me is one of the best replies. I am somewhat disappointed by the amount of guff being spouted about the Corrado. It's a mk3 golf in another body is funking laughable and an insult to VW & Karmann.

Clearly it would surprise a lot of you if you actually read up on the Corrado history.

For what it's worth I think the Integra & Corrado are two of the very best Fwd sports cars that money can buy. Both have broadly the same performance and characteristics and no the vr6 is not an understeering mess.

Personally I'm considering moving my Vr6 onto track duty and a Dc5 daily

SuperVM

1,098 posts

160 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
aka_kerrly said:
This for me is one of the best replies. I am somewhat disappointed by the amount of guff being spouted about the Corrado. It's a mk3 golf in another body is funking laughable and an insult to VW & Karmann.

Clearly it would surprise a lot of you if you actually read up on the Corrado history.

For what it's worth I think the Integra & Corrado are two of the very best Fwd sports cars that money can buy. Both have broadly the same performance and characteristics and no the vr6 is not an understeering mess.

Personally I'm considering moving my Vr6 onto track duty and a Dc5 daily
Indeed, I've always believed the VR6 handled extremely well and it's a car I've always wanted, but never quite owned, though have had five mk2 Golfs in varying states of modification. The Corrado does share a lot of components with the mk2 Golf, but that isn't to suggest I don't think it is a great car and ultimately superior.

SuperchargedVR6

3,138 posts

219 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
aka_kerrly said:
This for me is one of the best replies. I am somewhat disappointed by the amount of guff being spouted about the Corrado. It's a mk3 golf in another body is funking laughable and an insult to VW & Karmann.

Personally I'm considering moving my Vr6 onto track duty and a Dc5 daily
With you on the DC5. Much better looking (imo) than the DC2 and drives a bit sweeter too, again imo.

As for the Corrado, well, for one thing it has the Rallye trans tunnel, MK2 floor pan and a Passat(based) rear axle. The only MK3 part of the core structure is the engine cradle. The body shell is entirely different from any other VW and the lower roof line effectively lowers the C of G, so they did handle quite tidily compared to other VWs of the time, the MK3 especially. Being handmade as well, they didn't rot to buggery like the robot made Golfs did.

I had a VR6 for 9 years but eventually lost the love, having done every conceivable modification to it, as my username suggests. It's the only car that held my interest for more than a year to date! Good back then, but average now. Defo one for enthusiasts now and be prepared for struggles at the dealer for parts because unlike BMW, VW don't give a cr@p about their heritage.



Inverness

545 posts

177 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
Some very interesting replies to the OP, and to add my 2p Integra all day long, Corrado is by far the worst car I've ever owned!

With regards to the Corrado being 90% various bits of other VAG cars I can confirm that the front lights are unique, as is the light switch. How do I know this, as these are just a few of the bits that broke when I had mine!

kambites

67,462 posts

220 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
Mine was generally pretty reliable bar wear and tear, but it was a lowly 1.8 16v so rather less "bespoke" mechanically than the VR6. Bits generally seemed pretty cheap too as long as you didn't bend the body; a bit like the Elise that replaced it in my garage in that regard really.

I do agree that the Integra is a better car though (although I prefer the Corrado's styling, especially in Nugget Yellow); sadly it was well outside my budget both to buy and to insure when I bought my Corrado.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 2nd September 18:31