RE: Porsche 911 (997): PH Buying Guide
Discussion
Ken Figenus said:
Aston Martin didn't sign off the V12 engine design until it achieved minimum 150k under absolute punishment (including being red lined for a week).
the punishment that really hurts though is stop/start, cold starts and under load.It seems to be real life that catches engines out. Still incredible what they achieve though, and to think that Microsoft compared themselves (favourably) to car manufacturers 20 yrs ago.
I'm interested in that chat though - is it right that a 'performance' engine lasts less? Is it more 'stressed' or should it be engineered fit for purpose in any road car that by definition doesn't get near track type demands?
Its not a Porsche thing as all manufacturers drop the odd clanger (Nikasil on BMW's
) and then try to duck their 100% culpable c()ck up and defend their profits on the back of milking you for new parts prices - makes me mad! You'd think they would sell the affected parts for cost as an appeasement...silly me...
Many are following with interest a chap who has just bought a DB9 at 120k for a song on another forum but he does have a 5 figure wedge saved due to the reduced purchase cost... Onwards and higher!
Its not a Porsche thing as all manufacturers drop the odd clanger (Nikasil on BMW's
) and then try to duck their 100% culpable c()ck up and defend their profits on the back of milking you for new parts prices - makes me mad! You'd think they would sell the affected parts for cost as an appeasement...silly me...Many are following with interest a chap who has just bought a DB9 at 120k for a song on another forum but he does have a 5 figure wedge saved due to the reduced purchase cost... Onwards and higher!
Looks like some have limited facts! I have owned a number of 911's, the current Gen1 997 for 6 years. Most engine failures including mine were before 40K after that there is no risk to potential buyers. My understanding is that Porsche replaced all engines that failed in this way if they had a service history. An enjoyable car that you can own with confidence.
Looks like some have limited facts! I have owned a number of 911's, the current Gen1 997 for 6 years. Most engine failures including mine were before 40K after that there is no risk to potential buyers. My understanding is that Porsche replaced all engines that failed in this way if they had a service history. An enjoyable car that you can own with confidence.
tjh1 said:
Looks like some have limited facts! I have owned a number of 911's, the current Gen1 997 for 6 years. Most engine failures including mine were before 40K after that there is no risk to potential buyers. My understanding is that Porsche replaced all engines that failed in this way if they had a service history. An enjoyable car that you can own with confidence.
Were the replacement engines any different to the ones that failed? Edited by swisstoni on Friday 4th September 10:05
Ken Figenus said:
I'm interested in that chat though - is it right that a 'performance' engine lasts less? Is it more 'stressed' or should it be engineered fit for purpose in any road car that by definition doesn't get near track type demands?
Its not a Porsche thing as all manufacturers drop the odd clanger (Nikasil on BMW's) and then try to duck their 100% culpable c()ck up and defend their profits on the back of milking you for new parts prices - makes me mad! You'd think they would sell the affected parts for cost as an appeasement...silly me...
Many are following with interest a chap who has just bought a DB9 at 120k for a song on another forum but he does have a 5 figure wedge saved due to the reduced purchase cost... Onwards and higher!
I don't think it is. I think it comes down to how the engine is treated throughout it's life regardless of it being a performance engine or not.Its not a Porsche thing as all manufacturers drop the odd clanger (Nikasil on BMW's
) and then try to duck their 100% culpable c()ck up and defend their profits on the back of milking you for new parts prices - makes me mad! You'd think they would sell the affected parts for cost as an appeasement...silly me...Many are following with interest a chap who has just bought a DB9 at 120k for a song on another forum but he does have a 5 figure wedge saved due to the reduced purchase cost... Onwards and higher!
St John Smythe said:
I don't think it is. I think it comes down to how the engine is treated throughout it's life regardless of it being a performance engine or not.
Well, performance engines are generally subjected to more abuse than more pedestrian models, if their performance is actually put to use - so they will wear more significantly. I still believe you're being overly optimistic re lifespans of modern engines. If you ever come into possession of an actual, modern performance car and keep it for more than a few months, we'll talk again 
St John Smythe said:
I know but Freeman appears to still live in the 80s where any engine that makes it past 100k is a miracle.
I'll have you know I was not even alive in the 80s 
When I bought my 2001 Boxster S in 2009, I didn't do my homework and was walking on egg shells with it for a bit when I read all these internet RMS and IMS stories.
It needed a new clutch not long into ownership, so I asked the specialist who carried out the work to check the RMS, which they said was fine. I decided to enjoy the car to its full potential (on the road anyway), from then on and to hell with the potential IMS issue.
My thoughts were: "If it goes, it goes, but I'm bloody well going to enjoy this thing!"
Once it was nicely warmed up, I drove it very hard when the opportunities arose and it lapped it up. Life's too short to worry about these things IMO.
It needed a new clutch not long into ownership, so I asked the specialist who carried out the work to check the RMS, which they said was fine. I decided to enjoy the car to its full potential (on the road anyway), from then on and to hell with the potential IMS issue.
My thoughts were: "If it goes, it goes, but I'm bloody well going to enjoy this thing!"
Once it was nicely warmed up, I drove it very hard when the opportunities arose and it lapped it up. Life's too short to worry about these things IMO.
freeman2344 said:
If you ever come into possession of an actual, modern performance car and keep it for more than a few months, we'll talk again
No thanks. I like changing often and tryig out as many cars as possible. M3 or S5 after Christmas come bonus time. By the way what do you drive? Nothing listed in your profile.St John Smythe said:
No thanks. I like changing often and tryig out as many cars as possible. M3 or S5 after Christmas come bonus time. By the way what do you drive? Nothing listed in your profile.
I can certainly understand the allure of variety Check out my earlier post in this thread, I actually drive a 997 and have described my ownership experience (the good and the bad) in detail there.
freeman2344 said:
St John Smythe said:
No thanks. I like changing often and tryig out as many cars as possible. M3 or S5 after Christmas come bonus time. By the way what do you drive? Nothing listed in your profile.
I can certainly understand the allure of variety Check out my earlier post in this thread, I actually drive a 997 and have described my ownership experience (the good and the bad) in detail there.
http://www.paragongb.com/cars/1979-porsche-911-sc-...
Hellbound said:
So what you do is work out your budget and subtract £5000 odd from it. Find your ideal gen 2 997, go over it thoroughly before buying and then take it to a very good specialist who will use some of your £5k (or more) to fix every potential issue.
Then enjoy the car as intended.
I do think cars which have had the rebuild etc. done do command a premium so it's not all money down the pan.
For me having the engine behind you is worth the hassle.
I did exactly this & also purchased a 2 yr warranty with my 2006 Cayman 987.1 because of similar concerns.Then enjoy the car as intended.
I do think cars which have had the rebuild etc. done do command a premium so it's not all money down the pan.
For me having the engine behind you is worth the hassle.
I agree the buying guide is not very good but you have to do lots of homework if you are going to commit to that sort of money. I have had a 997 C2 for 10 years (same one) and been very happy with it. I bought it from a Porsche dealer and yes the engine main bearings did fail after about a year so the engine was replaced under warranty. I've had no real problems since then. In terms of driving, I've driven a number of car round tracks and I can say the 977 is great for taking straight of the road and onto the track with out having to change anything although I did change my pads to race compound.
So in summary, it's a great car, not for everyone, but do your research to minimise the risk and take out a aftermarket warranty if the engine is the factory fitted one.
So in summary, it's a great car, not for everyone, but do your research to minimise the risk and take out a aftermarket warranty if the engine is the factory fitted one.
dickie997 said:
I agree the buying guide is not very good but you have to do lots of homework if you are going to commit to that sort of money. I have had a 997 C2 for 10 years (same one) and been very happy with it. I bought it from a Porsche dealer and yes the engine main bearings did fail after about a year so the engine was replaced under warranty. I've had no real problems since then. In terms of driving, I've driven a number of car round tracks and I can say the 977 is great for taking straight of the road and onto the track with out having to change anything although I did change my pads to race compound.
So in summary, it's a great car, not for everyone, but do your research to minimise the risk and take out a aftermarket warranty if the engine is the factory fitted one.
Top lurking So in summary, it's a great car, not for everyone, but do your research to minimise the risk and take out a aftermarket warranty if the engine is the factory fitted one.
One question how did you buy it for £28k ten years ago and then you believe it's worth £30k now?
tjh1 said:
Looks like some have limited facts! I have owned a number of 911's, the current Gen1 997 for 6 years. Most engine failures including mine were before 40K after that there is no risk to potential buyers. My understanding is that Porsche replaced all engines that failed in this way if they had a service history. An enjoyable car that you can own with confidence.
Think you’re the one with limited facts tbh but ignorance is bliss as they say. The engines have fatal design flaws that have surfaced at many mileages in excess of 40k. Have been reading about it over 100’s of posts on here and boxa.net since I had my first one of 4, back in 2007IMS failure does seem to take place in that sort of area but bore scoring affecting the m97 engines ie 3.4 on Boxster and 3.6 / 3.8 on 997s, seems to happen at all sorts of mileages and I’ve seen it happen to many well after 40k.
I never got that comfortable with it and was relieved to swap to a Maserati Granturismo which was a lot more reliable than my 997 despite the brands’ bad rep. That shouldn’t be the case.
My old bosses dad had a 997 C4s bought brand new in 2006, first engine scored by 20k and was replaced under warranty by dealer. 2nd engine failed in 2011 at circa 45k miles and Porsche eventually went 60/40 on it after a load of grief from the old chap. I think he still paid about 7k... it put him off the brand completely as I recall.
A 997 is one of my kind-of-obtainable dream cars that I'd love to own at some point.
I've always really liked the styling, just a classy, timeless shape. Plus for a road car the handling and engine performance are more than ample in my book.
A 996 or 987 Cayman would be a more realistic for me budget-wise but the 997 seem that much more desirable.
I've always really liked the styling, just a classy, timeless shape. Plus for a road car the handling and engine performance are more than ample in my book.
A 996 or 987 Cayman would be a more realistic for me budget-wise but the 997 seem that much more desirable.
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