RE: Porsche 911 (997): PH Buying Guide
Discussion
ronnie middlemis said:
Chances are if you can only afford £20,000 - £30,000 for a 997 then you can't handle a engine rebuild cost £7,000. So only buy one if you have a great warranty, or you are a Porsche engineer. believe me else engine go pop, not just one problem but a few .The big one is the ims bearing ,if this goes your engine is toast, from 05 onwards they upgraded the bearing ,but it's no guaranty ,I've seen these go.The next is bore score, a dead give away is a heavy ticking sound from the engine , by definition you have a scoring on your cylinders , still a very expensive repair , and a less common fault is the head gasket ,£2,000 job .Gen 2 997s don't have these problems ,but much more expensive , a new clutch is the best part of £1200 two new rear tyres are £800 . if that doesn't put you off try finding a car that's had the rebuilt , they are about , and much the same price as one that hasn't . Haven't said all this , they are a lovely shape ,they must be one of the best looking 911s ever built including the swb 60s model and of course the 993 , and they are not depreciating so chances are you will get your money back . Your only here once ,,go for it!
Just put two new correct N rated Michelin Pilot Sports on the back of my 06 Carrera S for £480 from Asda Tyres. You'll only pay £800 if you're lazy. Potentially the same with buying a crap car. There's always things or people that'll put you off stuff and I don't really know how much of a problem the IMS and bore score thing is - over-hyped or not, but I've owned one for 5 years and it's a great car. Hope it doesn't go pop but I suspect nowhere near as many do as the naysayers would have you believe. I also own a 2013 BMW 1200GS that supposedly will kill me because it doesn't have the steering damper fitted from 2014 onwards. Ridden 25,000 miles on that without the faintest hint ever of a wobble. People love a scare story, especially people who no intention of ever buying the item concerned!Gixer968CS said:
Just put two new correct N rated Michelin Pilot Sports on the back of my 06 Carrera S for £480 from Asda Tyres. You'll only pay £800 if you're lazy. Potentially the same with buying a crap car. There's always things or people that'll put you off stuff and I don't really know how much of a problem the IMS and bore score thing is - over-hyped or not, but I've owned one for 5 years and it's a great car. Hope it doesn't go pop but I suspect nowhere near as many do as the naysayers would have you believe. I also own a 2013 BMW 1200GS that supposedly will kill me because it doesn't have the steering damper fitted from 2014 onwards. Ridden 25,000 miles on that without the faintest hint ever of a wobble. People love a scare story, especially people who no intention of ever buying the item concerned!
You may be a little too late with your advice, that post was written in 2015!gigglebug said:
Gixer968CS said:
Just put two new correct N rated Michelin Pilot Sports on the back of my 06 Carrera S for £480 from Asda Tyres. You'll only pay £800 if you're lazy. Potentially the same with buying a crap car. There's always things or people that'll put you off stuff and I don't really know how much of a problem the IMS and bore score thing is - over-hyped or not, but I've owned one for 5 years and it's a great car. Hope it doesn't go pop but I suspect nowhere near as many do as the naysayers would have you believe. I also own a 2013 BMW 1200GS that supposedly will kill me because it doesn't have the steering damper fitted from 2014 onwards. Ridden 25,000 miles on that without the faintest hint ever of a wobble. People love a scare story, especially people who no intention of ever buying the item concerned!
You may be a little too late with your advice, that post was written in 2015!
ronnie middlemis said:
There is a solution to all these problems , save your pennies and buy a turbo , 200 mph supercar , 32 mpg ,with kids in the back £500 specialist service bill ,0 depreciation it's the thinking mans Ferrari , gen 1 turbo 2006 - 2009 with manual gearbox , you can't go wrong , buy one now before the prices go north, and they will!
This. I have a gen 2 turbo and it’s been utterly bullet proof. And the performance is blistering. I infrequently consider a 911 then I scare myself silly with the high maintenance and running costs, the high warranty costs, high mileages and some of the dire reliability statistics. Seems Porsche has had inherent well documented problems as debated here and for some of them festering for around a decade seemingly unwilling to remedy the design/engineering issues such as coolant loss, oil loss, ims bearing failures some say running at 10%+, bore scoring. Just looking at classifieds around £25-30K there are a fair few mentioning engine rebuilds along with IMS upgrades...doing some GCSE maths on the service history costs listed looks like as others have said it averages out at circa £1500 pa for maintenance. I guess some reassurance when buying privately can be had for around a £250 inspection including a borescope.
A lot more grip in bends and a lot more power out, a lot more options and standard spec, a better resolved appearance, some extremely focused and high power variants, plus the cache of the 911 brand that the Boxster and Cayman doesn’t have. Bothe fantastic cars, but I personally don’t think a Boxster is 90% of a 911 for 1/3 of the price. Hard to think of a better sports car than a 997.
I’ve purchased a 997S in last few months, with a proper mechanical inspection and a Borescope test I don’t things there is much to worry about, yes it’s a 15 year old car and there will be bills in the future but the drive and that noise......feels special every time I start it, no regrets
Gen 2 cars not immune from engine issues. Been running a (relatively low mile) gen 2 c2 for 4 years now; great car and generally pretty low running costs (apart from a - thankfully under warranty - full rebuild at 42k miles because of worn piston rings that is). No over revs and no tell tale signs other than very high oil usage, so don’t get into one without a decent disaster fund (although what 10ish year old performance car doesn’t need that?).
Sevenman said:
I just had a lot at rebuild costs on the Hartech website.
Not cheap, but less than I thought it would be given the mentions it got.
Try getting a top quality rebuild on a Speed 6 engined TVR with sone new bits. That's my benchmark.
Hartech were quoting something like £15k around the time I was considering a 997 a few years ago. Much more than a speed 6 rebuild.Not cheap, but less than I thought it would be given the mentions it got.
Try getting a top quality rebuild on a Speed 6 engined TVR with sone new bits. That's my benchmark.
MJC 997 said:
so don’t get into one without a decent disaster fund (although what 10ish year old performance car doesn’t need that?).
Corvette and GTRs comes to mind as having the performance of a 997 with lower risks of throwing big bills.
Bar TVRs what period competitors have the same level of expensive issue as the 997 with its engine problems?
For example when the 997 was in production it would be competing against Audi R8s and Aston V8s. Do they have the same level of known problems?
Edited by Fittster on Monday 16th November 21:44
The problem with Porsches is that you can buy a lot of car for not a huge amount of money. A lot of people see Porsche as up there with Ferrari or Lamborghini - in motoring history they probably are up there with the former - and realise they can get hold of a 911 starting at around £20k. However, from experience you’ll need at least £1500 per annum in servicing (probably double that in the first year or two if you’ve only forked out £20k on a car right at the lower end of the spectrum). It would also be wise to put aside a Hartech-sized wadge of cash to cover an engine rebuild if necessary - around £12k. I still think that’s not a huge amount of money to buy into the marque. Try getting a Ferrari or Lamborghini for that kind of money and you won’t get far.
Basically, if you’re stretching yourself financially and worried about potential engine issues it’ll get in the way of your enjoyment of the car. I’ve looked into the possibility of buying a Ferrari in the past but servicing costs are prohibitively expensive. I’ll stick to porsche as the cars are amazing value and, on the whole, extremely well built and reliable.
Basically, if you’re stretching yourself financially and worried about potential engine issues it’ll get in the way of your enjoyment of the car. I’ve looked into the possibility of buying a Ferrari in the past but servicing costs are prohibitively expensive. I’ll stick to porsche as the cars are amazing value and, on the whole, extremely well built and reliable.
Chubbyross said:
The problem with Porsches is that you can buy a lot of car for not a huge amount of money. A lot of people see Porsche as up there with Ferrari or Lamborghini - in motoring history they probably are up there with the former - and realise they can get hold of a 911 starting at around £20k. However, from experience you’ll need at least £1500 per annum in servicing (probably double that in the first year or two if you’ve only forked out £20k on a car right at the lower end of the spectrum). It would also be wise to put aside a Hartech-sized wadge of cash to cover an engine rebuild if necessary - around £12k. I still think that’s not a huge amount of money to buy into the marque. Try getting a Ferrari or Lamborghini for that kind of money and you won’t get far.
Basically, if you’re stretching yourself financially and worried about potential engine issues it’ll get in the way of your enjoyment of the car. I’ve looked into the possibility of buying a Ferrari in the past but servicing costs are prohibitively expensive. I’ll stick to porsche as the cars are amazing value and, on the whole, extremely well built and reliable.
Couldnt have said it any better myself and those differing on your view of running costs IME have often bought much newer cars & are paying via depreciation. They are not brilliantly reliable and not cheap to keep in good nick having had 4.Basically, if you’re stretching yourself financially and worried about potential engine issues it’ll get in the way of your enjoyment of the car. I’ve looked into the possibility of buying a Ferrari in the past but servicing costs are prohibitively expensive. I’ll stick to porsche as the cars are amazing value and, on the whole, extremely well built and reliable.
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