RE: Porsche 911 (997): PH Buying Guide
Discussion
freeman2344 said:
The bearing failed at 143,000 miles. I'd see that as a testament to the engine's reliability 
I doubt many modern German cars live to see that mileage without a rebuild
Not sure if serious.I doubt many modern German cars live to see that mileage without a rebuild
A modern engine (German or otherwise) should easily be capable of 300k if looked after. It's the bits around the engine that tend to write cars off.
It's not 1985 where most engines die at 100k.
St John Smythe said:
freeman2344 said:
The bearing failed at 143,000 miles. I'd see that as a testament to the engine's reliability
I doubt many modern German cars live to see that mileage without a rebuild
Not sure if serious.I doubt many modern German cars live to see that mileage without a rebuild
A modern engine (German or otherwise) should easily be capable of 300k if looked after. It's the bits around the engine that tend to write cars off.
It's not 1985 where most engines die at 100k.
From a fairly average sized diesel attached to a plodalong Eurobox or a Honda Accord maybe.
jamieduff1981 said:
St John Smythe said:
freeman2344 said:
The bearing failed at 143,000 miles. I'd see that as a testament to the engine's reliability
I doubt many modern German cars live to see that mileage without a rebuild
Not sure if serious.I doubt many modern German cars live to see that mileage without a rebuild
A modern engine (German or otherwise) should easily be capable of 300k if looked after. It's the bits around the engine that tend to write cars off.
It's not 1985 where most engines die at 100k.
From a fairly average sized diesel attached to a plodalong Eurobox or a Honda Accord maybe.
Had my 2005 C2S for nearly 5 years.
Purchased as an approved used car through Porsche.
Servicing and maintenance has been approx £1.5k per year. This is half what it cost me to run an E46 M3.
Non-service items included - work to gearbox, RMS/IMS, front suspension completely replaced, heat shields, coil packs.
Similar price cars include Maserati 3200/4200, SL55, E46 M3 CSL, Ferrari 348, Audi R8, TVR Tuscan. In my first and second hand knowledge (through friends), the competitors all cost more to run. None of which is 'a Porsche 911'.
I bought mine for £35k in 2011, probably worth £28k now on a good day. Doubt the above has the same residuals.
As you were :-)
Purchased as an approved used car through Porsche.
Servicing and maintenance has been approx £1.5k per year. This is half what it cost me to run an E46 M3.
Non-service items included - work to gearbox, RMS/IMS, front suspension completely replaced, heat shields, coil packs.
Similar price cars include Maserati 3200/4200, SL55, E46 M3 CSL, Ferrari 348, Audi R8, TVR Tuscan. In my first and second hand knowledge (through friends), the competitors all cost more to run. None of which is 'a Porsche 911'.
I bought mine for £35k in 2011, probably worth £28k now on a good day. Doubt the above has the same residuals.
As you were :-)
fastgerman said:
Had my 2005 C2S for nearly 5 years.
Purchased as an approved used car through Porsche.
Servicing and maintenance has been approx £1.5k per year. This is half what it cost me to run an E46 M3.
Non-service items included - work to gearbox, RMS/IMS, front suspension completely replaced, heat shields, coil packs.
Similar price cars include Maserati 3200/4200, SL55, E46 M3 CSL, Ferrari 348, Audi R8, TVR Tuscan. In my first and second hand knowledge (through friends), the competitors all cost more to run. None of which is 'a Porsche 911'.
I bought mine for £35k in 2011, probably worth £28k now on a good day. Doubt the above has the same residuals.
As you were :-)
348s, Tuscans and M3 CSLs are increasing in value? Not sure about the others though.Purchased as an approved used car through Porsche.
Servicing and maintenance has been approx £1.5k per year. This is half what it cost me to run an E46 M3.
Non-service items included - work to gearbox, RMS/IMS, front suspension completely replaced, heat shields, coil packs.
Similar price cars include Maserati 3200/4200, SL55, E46 M3 CSL, Ferrari 348, Audi R8, TVR Tuscan. In my first and second hand knowledge (through friends), the competitors all cost more to run. None of which is 'a Porsche 911'.
I bought mine for £35k in 2011, probably worth £28k now on a good day. Doubt the above has the same residuals.
As you were :-)
St John Smythe said:
fastgerman said:
Had my 2005 C2S for nearly 5 years.
Purchased as an approved used car through Porsche.
Servicing and maintenance has been approx £1.5k per year. This is half what it cost me to run an E46 M3.
Non-service items included - work to gearbox, RMS/IMS, front suspension completely replaced, heat shields, coil packs.
Similar price cars include Maserati 3200/4200, SL55, E46 M3 CSL, Ferrari 348, Audi R8, TVR Tuscan. In my first and second hand knowledge (through friends), the competitors all cost more to run. None of which is 'a Porsche 911'.
I bought mine for £35k in 2011, probably worth £28k now on a good day. Doubt the above has the same residuals.
As you were :-)
348s, Tuscans and M3 CSLs are increasing in value? Not sure about the others though.Purchased as an approved used car through Porsche.
Servicing and maintenance has been approx £1.5k per year. This is half what it cost me to run an E46 M3.
Non-service items included - work to gearbox, RMS/IMS, front suspension completely replaced, heat shields, coil packs.
Similar price cars include Maserati 3200/4200, SL55, E46 M3 CSL, Ferrari 348, Audi R8, TVR Tuscan. In my first and second hand knowledge (through friends), the competitors all cost more to run. None of which is 'a Porsche 911'.
I bought mine for £35k in 2011, probably worth £28k now on a good day. Doubt the above has the same residuals.
As you were :-)
997 prices have remained pretty static over the last year also.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
On a scale of 1-10, how paranoid would you say you are? I don't get why you're still driving that CS. I love how you refer to it as a "Bore Score Edition". It seems to me, you need a job, girlfriend or other hobby to get away from it all.St John Smythe said:
Note Freeman mentioned modern German cars not high performance variants.
Well, high-performance variants will certainly not reach the 300k you've specified here. A good Diesel, maybe. But even that would be up in the air. 300k miles is a heck of a lot.fastgerman said:
I'm not sure they are net though i.e. subtracting running costs.
997 prices have remained pretty static over the last year also.
Exactly!997 prices have remained pretty static over the last year also.
fastgerman said:
Had my 2005 C2S for nearly 5 years.
Purchased as an approved used car through Porsche.
Servicing and maintenance has been approx £1.5k per year. This is half what it cost me to run an E46 M3.
Non-service items included - work to gearbox, RMS/IMS, front suspension completely replaced, heat shields, coil packs.
Similar price cars include Maserati 3200/4200, SL55, E46 M3 CSL, Ferrari 348, Audi R8, TVR Tuscan. In my first and second hand knowledge (through friends), the competitors all cost more to run. None of which is 'a Porsche 911'.
I bought mine for £35k in 2011, probably worth £28k now on a good day. Doubt the above has the same residuals.
As you were :-)
Seriously your E46 M3 cost £3k per year on servicing and ongoing repairs..... Ouch. Purchased as an approved used car through Porsche.
Servicing and maintenance has been approx £1.5k per year. This is half what it cost me to run an E46 M3.
Non-service items included - work to gearbox, RMS/IMS, front suspension completely replaced, heat shields, coil packs.
Similar price cars include Maserati 3200/4200, SL55, E46 M3 CSL, Ferrari 348, Audi R8, TVR Tuscan. In my first and second hand knowledge (through friends), the competitors all cost more to run. None of which is 'a Porsche 911'.
I bought mine for £35k in 2011, probably worth £28k now on a good day. Doubt the above has the same residuals.
As you were :-)
Also only lost £7k in what 4 years is stunning you clearly bought at a good price.
freeman2344 said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
On a scale of 1-10, how paranoid would you say you are? I don't get why you're still driving that CS. I love how you refer to it as a "Bore Score Edition". It seems to me, you need a job, girlfriend or other hobby to get away from it all.St John Smythe said:
Note Freeman mentioned modern German cars not high performance variants.
Well, high-performance variants will certainly not reach the 300k you've specified here. A good Diesel, maybe. But even that would be up in the air. 300k miles is a heck of a lot.fastgerman said:
I'm not sure they are net though i.e. subtracting running costs.
997 prices have remained pretty static over the last year also.
Exactly!997 prices have remained pretty static over the last year also.
St John Smythe said:
fastgerman said:
Had my 2005 C2S for nearly 5 years.
Purchased as an approved used car through Porsche.
Servicing and maintenance has been approx £1.5k per year. This is half what it cost me to run an E46 M3.
Non-service items included - work to gearbox, RMS/IMS, front suspension completely replaced, heat shields, coil packs.
Similar price cars include Maserati 3200/4200, SL55, E46 M3 CSL, Ferrari 348, Audi R8, TVR Tuscan. In my first and second hand knowledge (through friends), the competitors all cost more to run. None of which is 'a Porsche 911'.
I bought mine for £35k in 2011, probably worth £28k now on a good day. Doubt the above has the same residuals.
As you were :-)
348s, Tuscans and M3 CSLs are increasing in value? Not sure about the others though.Purchased as an approved used car through Porsche.
Servicing and maintenance has been approx £1.5k per year. This is half what it cost me to run an E46 M3.
Non-service items included - work to gearbox, RMS/IMS, front suspension completely replaced, heat shields, coil packs.
Similar price cars include Maserati 3200/4200, SL55, E46 M3 CSL, Ferrari 348, Audi R8, TVR Tuscan. In my first and second hand knowledge (through friends), the competitors all cost more to run. None of which is 'a Porsche 911'.
I bought mine for £35k in 2011, probably worth £28k now on a good day. Doubt the above has the same residuals.
As you were :-)
freeman2344 said:
I Rock said:
Don't buy one . Simples
Note the winky . Yes if the horror stories frighten you then really don't buy one . I have owned a few used 911s and slept fine . I was in a position to buy used Murcielago , Gallardo , 430 , 355 ... all those we all desire , but ownership would truly have scared me when normal running costs can be price of 911 engine rebuild . Build quality or not as the case may be and reliability of those cars is well documented . By comparison the 911 is a safe bet and it's a fantastic car . There is truth in much on here but not like enough to stop you buying a 997 and enjoying without worry . You know you are buying a lot of money car for not a lot . So don't stretch yourself . There's enough info here and elsewhere to help you avoid pitfalls . Talk to your friendly 911 mechanic and get him to inspect possible purchase . In total budget include money for car and known contingencies . No worries , other than any car can always break !
Also a thought this current IMS talk etc is reminder of horror stories over 964 dual mass flywheel , oil leaks , twin distributor ..... Hopefully for people like 'us' after a good affordable used 911 same will happen with 997 . As the cars get older if still on the road the problems will be sorted by someone else before we buy . Just check first
Edited by I Rock on Wednesday 2nd September 21:19
ButziFan said:
Bla Bla Engine Issues Bla Bla
Bla IMS Bla Bla Bore Scoring Bla
Bla Bla Bla
Plenty of gen 1's at track days and seeing
more and more on public roads...so can't
be all that bad.
PH's review seems well balanced, from a
daily-driver ownership perspective, and if
in doubt regarding model differentiation, and
all that Porsche brand-marketing rubbish, I'd
highly recommend Clarkson's Top Gear review.
Yep total agree - lots on track days, owners thoroughly enjoying the spirit of all things PORSCHE.Bla IMS Bla Bla Bore Scoring Bla
Bla Bla Bla
Plenty of gen 1's at track days and seeing
more and more on public roads...so can't
be all that bad.
PH's review seems well balanced, from a
daily-driver ownership perspective, and if
in doubt regarding model differentiation, and
all that Porsche brand-marketing rubbish, I'd
highly recommend Clarkson's Top Gear review.
In fact - having seen the successes of porsche racing drivers like Nick Tandy this year, and my wish / dream to achieve a shadow of what PURE RACE GENIUS these people are, I'd say get yourselves into a classic 911 - just like the water cooled 996 and 997's now are. Driving a Porsche.
Cmoose - my big bearings on my 2.0 pinto rumbled this morning on cold start up. Do I need to replace my IMS bearings or should I just accept that I must now pay out for a complete rebuild by Hartech? Mine is a 32/36 weber, and yeah I just had to replace my rear axle bearings because they were leaking.
Cheers and best wishes with it, really
997's are awesome cars.
St John Smythe said:
freeman2344 said:
The bearing failed at 143,000 miles. I'd see that as a testament to the engine's reliability
I doubt many modern German cars live to see that mileage without a rebuild
Not sure if serious.I doubt many modern German cars live to see that mileage without a rebuild
A modern engine (German or otherwise) should easily be capable of 300k if looked after. It's the bits around the engine that tend to write cars off.
It's not 1985 where most engines die at 100k.
In these days of high tech synthetic oils and coupled with 'German Engineering' (its not a myth - they really are pretty handy with a spanner (not mentioning GT3 con rod bolts
)) and all from a renowned and large scale specialist performance car racer/manufacturer like Porsche is that really asking too much? Not in my book. Jeez I read some heartbreaking stories in the forums when researching a Porsche last year - put me right off rightly/wrongly.Aston Martin didn't sign off the V12 engine design until it achieved minimum 150k under absolute punishment (including being red lined for a week). I'd expect Porsche to do even more as they are bigger and richer! Do they not? I also fully reasonably expect my twin turbo 500LbFt smoker 535d to hit 300k (their Achilles heel of engine catastrophe swirl flaps being long removed) but will forgive any turbo replacement at £1k - this cost will not ruin sleep/Xmas or have grown men crying!
I absolutely have to have a Porsche Turbo or GT3 one day but need to understand what caused all this? It just doesn't sit right.
Ken Figenus said:
St John Smythe said:
freeman2344 said:
The bearing failed at 143,000 miles. I'd see that as a testament to the engine's reliability
I doubt many modern German cars live to see that mileage without a rebuild
Not sure if serious.I doubt many modern German cars live to see that mileage without a rebuild
A modern engine (German or otherwise) should easily be capable of 300k if looked after. It's the bits around the engine that tend to write cars off.
It's not 1985 where most engines die at 100k.
In these days of high tech synthetic oils and coupled with 'German Engineering' (its not a myth - they really are pretty handy with a spanner (not mentioning GT3 con rod bolts
)) and all from a renowned and large scale specialist performance car racer/manufacturer like Porsche is that really asking too much? Not in my book. Jeez I read some heartbreaking stories in the forums when researching a Porsche last year - put me right off rightly/wrongly.Aston Martin didn't sign off the V12 engine design until it achieved minimum 150k under absolute punishment (including being red lined for a week). I'd expect Porsche to do even more as they are bigger and richer! Do they not? I also fully reasonably expect my twin turbo 500LbFt smoker 535d to hit 300k (their Achilles heel of engine catastrophe swirl flaps being long removed) but will forgive any turbo replacement at £1k - this cost will not ruin sleep/Xmas or have grown men crying!
I absolutely have to have a Porsche Turbo or GT3 one day but need to understand what caused all this? It just doesn't sit right.
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