The more I look the less I find...
Discussion
danlightbulb said:
Why would repair bills on a 530d be any more than on a mondeo TDCi? I had to have the DMF done on my Mondy and it cost the best part of a grand. Why would the DMF be any different on the BMW?
Because BMW?It's the old cheap, reliable, fast question. Choose two.
If 5-10 mpg is a factor then you're looking at the wrong cars.
Dear danlightbulb,
I'm not trying to tell you what to do, but when I was in the position it sounds like you're in, the relief I felt from deciding to just stop looking at car ads and not care about what I drove for a while was very pleasant. I'm still enjoying it now.
So I'd keep the Mondeo for another year. In that time, don't look at car ads. Get your kicks elsewhere.
When the year (or however long) is up, your financial position, your ideas about what you'd like to buy and what is available at what sort of prices will all have shifted and you can start to look again.
And if it suddenly and catastrophically breaks in three months time, you've still got £6k knocking around to go out and buy something else.
I'm not trying to tell you what to do, but when I was in the position it sounds like you're in, the relief I felt from deciding to just stop looking at car ads and not care about what I drove for a while was very pleasant. I'm still enjoying it now.
So I'd keep the Mondeo for another year. In that time, don't look at car ads. Get your kicks elsewhere.
When the year (or however long) is up, your financial position, your ideas about what you'd like to buy and what is available at what sort of prices will all have shifted and you can start to look again.
And if it suddenly and catastrophically breaks in three months time, you've still got £6k knocking around to go out and buy something else.
danlightbulb said:
Would a 8/10 year old BMW which had done 100k be shagged?
Mainly because BMW make nice, aspiration cars that a lovely to drive with all of the latest gizmos on them rather than very reliable cars like Honda and Toyota. Also, they probably started life as a company hack, was serviced on an extended service interval the traded. The next owner will have been trying to impress his neighbours with his new to him thrusting driving machine, but didn't really do his homework and only gave it the most basic of maintenance. A colleague is this man. His "nice" 110,000 mile E60 525i he bought about 4 years ago is an untaxed, uninsured piece of junk with no MOT because it's killing him running it. danlightbulb said:
Why would repair bills on a 530d be any more than on a mondeo TDCi? I had to have the DMF done on my Mondy and it cost the best part of a grand. Why would the DMF be any different on the BMW? My mondy has never had an injector fault (thankfully), I know its a risk though as with any car. Why wouldn't a petrol engine have injector failure?
Have you checked parts prices between the two and spoken to whoever looks after your current car? At the very least, you have 50% more injectors on the BMW. They are, or were, a 150mph executive car and will have 150mph executive car bills. i have no doubt that the BMW beards will be along shortly to tell me I know nothing, but I would be surprised if even the most ardent BMW fan will say he can run a 530D for the same price as a Mondeo. danlightbulb said:
Isn't a 8/10 year old BMW better built than a 5/6 year old mondeo, which is all I can get for the cash? Both will have done around 100k miles give or take 20k.
When you say better built, do you mean which one has the nicest sound when you close the doors or which one will last the longest? If you want something to last along time, buy something Japanese, but they won;t get your neighbours curtains twitching. The man above speaks sense. I would sooner have an avensis if I were in your situation, there's no point skinting yourself to impress people.
My mate realised this a few years back after his 120d had been nothing but trouble and he was struggling to run it - sold it, and with half the money bought a Yaris 1.8 SR, it's only had servicing and tyres since, no problems.
My mate realised this a few years back after his 120d had been nothing but trouble and he was struggling to run it - sold it, and with half the money bought a Yaris 1.8 SR, it's only had servicing and tyres since, no problems.
Less than £6k will buy my 06 Audi A6 3.0tdi Quattro Avant when I get around to advertising it. Manual gearbox means it generally gets 35-40mpg depending how its driven and I have managed 44mpg on a 250mile motorway journey. Sub 100kmiles with new clutch and DMF at 72k
Will that tick all the OP's boxes?
Will that tick all the OP's boxes?
danlightbulb said:
Bill said:
With the best will in the world any 4x4 you get will struggle to get 30mpg (how many miles pa do you do?). And do you really need a huge amount of load space? There are a hell of a lot of fast, fun 4 seaters in budget.
You're lucky in many ways, I have three kids (two in boosters) so most estates are out, particularly as we often carry their friends about too. (Watch the mumsnet whingers froth at the idea of someone who actual needs a 7-seater.
)
I do 10 to 12 k a year, town, motorway, dual carriageways, a run out every so often. I do need a decent load space for carrying bikes mostly.You're lucky in many ways, I have three kids (two in boosters) so most estates are out, particularly as we often carry their friends about too. (Watch the mumsnet whingers froth at the idea of someone who actual needs a 7-seater.
)I have 2 kids in boosters and my missus has one toddler in a full car seat. So we tend to take 2 cars most places at the moment.
Like it or not you (and I) are the sort of people MPVs are aimed at.
technodup said:
Because BMW?
It's the old cheap, reliable, fast question. Choose two.
If 5-10 mpg is a factor then you're looking at the wrong cars.
BMWs are all over the place just like Mondeos. A new mondeo is just as much out of my price range as a new beemer. They may have been expensive when new, but all cars are expensive when new. I don't use main dealer garages or pay for OE parts if I can help it.It's the old cheap, reliable, fast question. Choose two.
If 5-10 mpg is a factor then you're looking at the wrong cars.
Ghost91 said:
I would sooner have an avensis if I were in your situation, there's no point skinting yourself to impress people.
This isn't about what the neighbours might think when they look out of the window. I just want something that I will enjoy owning, that I think is a bit special compared to what I have had before.Thanks for the avensis suggestion. They seem quite nice actually, as far as average everyday cars go. Just looking at a 2009 estate with 78k on the clock, a 147bhp 1.8l petrol engine, and it has a claimed 43mpg. Can anyone tell me whether these petrol engines (or the diesels also) are any good? Are the cars generally good, handle well, comfortable, good room inside etc?
I did have a 1.8l petrol Vauxhall Astra previously - that engine was rubbish. Would be worried a 1.8l 4 cyl petrol is pretty un-robust.
Bennet said:
Dear danlightbulb,
I'm not trying to tell you what to do, but when I was in the position it sounds like you're in, the relief I felt from deciding to just stop looking at car ads and not care about what I drove for a while was very pleasant. I'm still enjoying it now.
So I'd keep the Mondeo for another year.
I think you're right Bennet. I've not found something Im entirely happy with so best hold off. Mondy MOT in three weeks - a £600 car, what if it needs £600 of suspension repairs - pay it or scrap it?I'm not trying to tell you what to do, but when I was in the position it sounds like you're in, the relief I felt from deciding to just stop looking at car ads and not care about what I drove for a while was very pleasant. I'm still enjoying it now.
So I'd keep the Mondeo for another year.
Edited by danlightbulb on Wednesday 2nd September 18:53
This is the car you need. You might not want it. No need to thank me.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds?Category=us...
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds?Category=us...
Willy Nilly said:
This is the car you need. You might not want it. No need to thank me.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds?Category=us...
Ha ha yeah the classic 3 seats across in the front look. You were dead right, I don't want it http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds?Category=us...
danlightbulb said:
Willy Nilly said:
This is the car you need. You might not want it. No need to thank me.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds?Category=us...
Ha ha yeah the classic 3 seats across in the front look. You were dead right, I don't want it http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds?Category=us...
Willy Nilly said:
Then walk.
Would rather walk than drive that. (ok that might be an exaggeration). but i'd still feel like I was in a Transit.I think I might forget the 7 seats thing altogether. The missus will have to deal with that problem when she comes to change her car. 99% of the time I'm in it on my own anyway.
Here is a very rubbish anecdote. Last year I was a member of an air rifle club. The parking was on a grass field next to the club. One Sunday, after a bit of rain, I drove on to this field in my Mondy. I could not get off again and had to be towed off. An almost flat grass field with a bit of mud on it and my Mondy could not cope.
4x4 would just be very useful thing to have, even if I don't need it 99% of the time. Its the same with the 7 seats thing. 99% of time do not need them, but when I do need it and don't have it? Stuck.
99% of the time I don't need a satnav. How many people have inbuilt satnavs in their cars? Lots.
99% of the time I don't need to carry my bikes, but when I need to carry the bikes I need to have the space.
We all buy things for the 1% situation.
I need to clear up this reliability issue we've talked about in this thread.
Diesels can have more big things go wrong than petrols right? But suspension components, bushes, brakes, PAS pumps, coolant pumps, alternators, Cambelts, clutches, auxiliary belts etc, all these things are common to both petrols and diesels. On my mondy, the only thing specific to the diesel engine that failed was the DMF, at somewhere around 130k miles. Yes it cost a lot, but should I be ruling out a whole class of readily available vehicles at reasonable prices because of one possible component failure? It seems very restrictive to do so.
Will there be any real difference in reliability between a used 2006 BMW 5 series at 100k miles and a used 2008 Ford Mondeo at 100k miles? Really? I could drop unlucky with either or neither in equal measure? Are people here saying that if I buy Toyota (diesel or petrol) then I SIGNIFICANTLY reduce my risk of repair costs, given a 2008 100k miler?
Whilst I'd love a 3 litre 6 pot 200 bhp petrol, it will cost me alot more to insure it and fuel it. Its not the sensible choice.
Any car better than a Mondeo or an Avensis, i.e any large BMW, Audi or Volvo, will have originally cost £40k+. Does this mean all parts will be equally as expensive? Lots of people have these cars second hand, are they all stumping up twice or three times as much for parts all the time? It just seems like something that would be common knowledge if it were so.
I just find myself wondering how much of these things I am hearing are scaremongering, or whether its me that's in denial.
Re the mpg thing. If it was guaranteed that the petrol choice would save me in repair costs then I'd happily live with a lower mpg petrol car. But it doesn't seem that way to me, and therefore the higher economy is more of an immediate and visible cost driver than hidden low likelihood repair costs.
The 4x4 thing is just because i like the truck look and the feeling of size and robustness. Its a personal thing, just as the man next to me might like camper vans, and the man next to him might like Lamborghini's.
From my experience;
1. Make sure its been maintained properly. Absolute no no to buy a car with warning lights on (because you don't *truly* know what you're getting yourself in to), make sure all the important dash lights light up when you turn the key to pre-ignition (i.e. that mode just before you start the engine) to make sure no bulbs have been pulled out! Also make sure good service and record with maintenance, preferably with the manufacturer.
2. Remember that a car's market value is what it is for a reason. Sure, like the case of the Nissan Figaro, it may not be a good reason (silly girls like to buy them to make it look like they're a 1960s housewife by choice), but sometimes like e.g. the way the new shape Range Rover Sport holds its price - because its a bloody brilliant car! You'll probably notice in things like the X5 that the 3.0i petrol will drop in price more than the 3.0d, as you'll find the 3.0d is nicer to drive (more torque at lower revs).
3. Make sure you're 100% happy with the spec and colours of the car. If you really really really really wanted a certain option, from anything as simple as iPod connectivity to anything as sophisticated as heads-up display, make sure the car you're buying has it otherwise it will drive you up the wall (no pun intended). Remember that whilst most things can be retrofitted, a) It will often be 2x-3x the cost of having had it as a factory option, b) most probably not worth it!
4. If it narrows down to a choice of 2 or 3 cars, decide between them based on your heart rather than your head. I know it sounds silly, but as long as it meets your needs, don't worry about the few miles per gallon less it may do or the slightly more expensive tyres. It will be cheaper in the long run to get the car you really want.
Again, I'm not a car buying expert by any means, but thats my personal experience.
1. Make sure its been maintained properly. Absolute no no to buy a car with warning lights on (because you don't *truly* know what you're getting yourself in to), make sure all the important dash lights light up when you turn the key to pre-ignition (i.e. that mode just before you start the engine) to make sure no bulbs have been pulled out! Also make sure good service and record with maintenance, preferably with the manufacturer.
2. Remember that a car's market value is what it is for a reason. Sure, like the case of the Nissan Figaro, it may not be a good reason (silly girls like to buy them to make it look like they're a 1960s housewife by choice), but sometimes like e.g. the way the new shape Range Rover Sport holds its price - because its a bloody brilliant car! You'll probably notice in things like the X5 that the 3.0i petrol will drop in price more than the 3.0d, as you'll find the 3.0d is nicer to drive (more torque at lower revs).
3. Make sure you're 100% happy with the spec and colours of the car. If you really really really really wanted a certain option, from anything as simple as iPod connectivity to anything as sophisticated as heads-up display, make sure the car you're buying has it otherwise it will drive you up the wall (no pun intended). Remember that whilst most things can be retrofitted, a) It will often be 2x-3x the cost of having had it as a factory option, b) most probably not worth it!
4. If it narrows down to a choice of 2 or 3 cars, decide between them based on your heart rather than your head. I know it sounds silly, but as long as it meets your needs, don't worry about the few miles per gallon less it may do or the slightly more expensive tyres. It will be cheaper in the long run to get the car you really want.
Again, I'm not a car buying expert by any means, but thats my personal experience.
You need a Volvo V70 D5 pre 2005.
Loads of torque, great for kids, 45mpg as long as not all in town, very comfy, great stereo, pre DPF and will be fine for the next 100,000 miles. You can get 2 extra seats that fit in the boot.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/used-cars/volvo/v70/us...
You may *want* a big chunky 4x4, but lets be honest, they ride badly and handle badly compared to an estate, they have less load space, you can't afford to fuel it or keep it maintained or in decent tyres.
If you really want a 4x4, buy a cheap Suzuki Jimny as well and go green laning with your kids, find some muddy bog holes and have some fun. I do it with my kids and its a total blast they will love it, a cheap light Jimny will go places a big heavy 4x4 can't dream of.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/used-cars/suzuki/jimny...
http://www.greenlanefinder.com/
Loads of torque, great for kids, 45mpg as long as not all in town, very comfy, great stereo, pre DPF and will be fine for the next 100,000 miles. You can get 2 extra seats that fit in the boot.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/used-cars/volvo/v70/us...
You may *want* a big chunky 4x4, but lets be honest, they ride badly and handle badly compared to an estate, they have less load space, you can't afford to fuel it or keep it maintained or in decent tyres.
If you really want a 4x4, buy a cheap Suzuki Jimny as well and go green laning with your kids, find some muddy bog holes and have some fun. I do it with my kids and its a total blast they will love it, a cheap light Jimny will go places a big heavy 4x4 can't dream of.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/used-cars/suzuki/jimny...
http://www.greenlanefinder.com/
ExPat2B said:
If you really want a 4x4, buy a cheap Suzuki Jimny as well and go green laning with your kids, find some muddy bog holes and have some fun. I do it with my kids and its a total blast they will love it, a cheap light Jimny will go places a big heavy 4x4 can't dream of.
I wanted to do this initially. Saw a great Jeep Cherokee for sale for £900 quid down the road. Could not insure it, even on a specialist limited mileage policy, for less than £500 (more than I pay for my main car). Some places wanted over a grand!! Robbing b
ds. So I was forced to give up on that idea.With regard to Diesel engines, you prob need to do some research.
The increasing environmental demands on the diesel has become very technically difficult. A year 2000 petrol engine for example has 5 main sensors, whereas a Euro 6 diesel exhaust will have many more than that in the exhaust, leave alone the engine. In addition, the sensors are complex, difficult to test, and expensive. The chances of misdiagnosis are high, and fitting is not easy or cheap. All in all a bit of a mare.
In my experience injectors are less of an issue now than they were - Delphi suffered (in my opinion just in case any legal stuff follows) from very high wear rates from changes to low sulpher fuel from 2002 - 2006/7 ish. This is partly because the fuel pressure is so massively high - about 2000 bar in most common rail diesel cases. (Most high pressure hydraulic systems are about 300 bar)
Particulate filters are specific to diesels, and are expensive to change. Petrol engines don't have DPF, so don't incur the costs.
Similarly, because diesel engines are more torque oriented, Dual mass flywheels are loaded harder than in a petrol (where they are oftentimes not used), and therefore more likely to fail.
You will not find a modern diesel without a DMF, DPF, EGR, etc etc etc.
Modern petrol engines have come a long way - lean burn FSI seem pretty economical, run smoothly and are quite nice, allbeit more complicated than the more traditional petrol engines. Add a turbo, and you get the torque that you would have from a diesel. Very nice.
Of course, the more complicated, the more risk of things going wrong, but the cheaper they will be on fuel.
So, if you are looking for low costs, I would be tempted by a trad petrol engine, made by the Japanese, with a decent LPG conversion. These should run with low fuel costs,and be very reliable.
Hence the previous suggestion of something like a 4*4 Lexus - big V6 petrol engine - typically 15 - 20 MPG, converted to LPG, around the equivalent cost of 35 - 45 to the gallon.
It's worth bearing in mind, that the German stuff does not have the best reputation for reliability - even though it's very nice to drive. Ford's pretty good, but the Japs (Toyota / Honda) are still the best.
The increasing environmental demands on the diesel has become very technically difficult. A year 2000 petrol engine for example has 5 main sensors, whereas a Euro 6 diesel exhaust will have many more than that in the exhaust, leave alone the engine. In addition, the sensors are complex, difficult to test, and expensive. The chances of misdiagnosis are high, and fitting is not easy or cheap. All in all a bit of a mare.
In my experience injectors are less of an issue now than they were - Delphi suffered (in my opinion just in case any legal stuff follows) from very high wear rates from changes to low sulpher fuel from 2002 - 2006/7 ish. This is partly because the fuel pressure is so massively high - about 2000 bar in most common rail diesel cases. (Most high pressure hydraulic systems are about 300 bar)
Particulate filters are specific to diesels, and are expensive to change. Petrol engines don't have DPF, so don't incur the costs.
Similarly, because diesel engines are more torque oriented, Dual mass flywheels are loaded harder than in a petrol (where they are oftentimes not used), and therefore more likely to fail.
You will not find a modern diesel without a DMF, DPF, EGR, etc etc etc.
Modern petrol engines have come a long way - lean burn FSI seem pretty economical, run smoothly and are quite nice, allbeit more complicated than the more traditional petrol engines. Add a turbo, and you get the torque that you would have from a diesel. Very nice.
Of course, the more complicated, the more risk of things going wrong, but the cheaper they will be on fuel.
So, if you are looking for low costs, I would be tempted by a trad petrol engine, made by the Japanese, with a decent LPG conversion. These should run with low fuel costs,and be very reliable.
Hence the previous suggestion of something like a 4*4 Lexus - big V6 petrol engine - typically 15 - 20 MPG, converted to LPG, around the equivalent cost of 35 - 45 to the gallon.
It's worth bearing in mind, that the German stuff does not have the best reputation for reliability - even though it's very nice to drive. Ford's pretty good, but the Japs (Toyota / Honda) are still the best.
Thanks, good info. I can see that diesels have moved on somewhat from my Mondy era.
The LPG thing, shame there aren't more around because I'd definitely consider it. Of course, its only worth it while the tax breaks are in place. They could disappear at any time. That old £900 Jeep I saw had been LPG'd.
Re the DPF. Older diesels don't have it right, and they pass the MOT. So is it not possible to remove it altogether from these modern cars. Piece it through in the exhaust and code it out in the ECU?
The LPG thing, shame there aren't more around because I'd definitely consider it. Of course, its only worth it while the tax breaks are in place. They could disappear at any time. That old £900 Jeep I saw had been LPG'd.
Re the DPF. Older diesels don't have it right, and they pass the MOT. So is it not possible to remove it altogether from these modern cars. Piece it through in the exhaust and code it out in the ECU?
danlightbulb said:
Thanks, good info. I can see that diesels have moved on somewhat from my Mondy era.
The LPG thing, shame there aren't more around because I'd definitely consider it. Of course, its only worth it while the tax breaks are in place. They could disappear at any time. That old £900 Jeep I saw had been LPG'd.
Re the DPF. Older diesels don't have it right, and they pass the MOT. So is it not possible to remove it altogether from these modern cars. Piece it through in the exhaust and code it out in the ECU?
I think what a lot of people tend to do is exactly that - but to make it MOTable you have to leave the dpf in place and remove the internals so that it looks like it's still there. It also makes some cars prone to kicking out stupid amounts of black smoke. The LPG thing, shame there aren't more around because I'd definitely consider it. Of course, its only worth it while the tax breaks are in place. They could disappear at any time. That old £900 Jeep I saw had been LPG'd.
Re the DPF. Older diesels don't have it right, and they pass the MOT. So is it not possible to remove it altogether from these modern cars. Piece it through in the exhaust and code it out in the ECU?
danlightbulb said:
Thanks, good info. I can see that diesels have moved on somewhat from my Mondy era.
The LPG thing, shame there aren't more around because I'd definitely consider it. Of course, its only worth it while the tax breaks are in place. They could disappear at any time. That old £900 Jeep I saw had been LPG'd.
Re the DPF. Older diesels don't have it right, and they pass the MOT. So is it not possible to remove it altogether from these modern cars. Piece it through in the exhaust and code it out in the ECU?
Yes it is possible..... same with EGR. DVLA don't like it though, and have issued instructions to MOT testers to visually look for the presence of DPF filters if they were originally fitted with this equipment, and fail cars that have had them removed.The LPG thing, shame there aren't more around because I'd definitely consider it. Of course, its only worth it while the tax breaks are in place. They could disappear at any time. That old £900 Jeep I saw had been LPG'd.
Re the DPF. Older diesels don't have it right, and they pass the MOT. So is it not possible to remove it altogether from these modern cars. Piece it through in the exhaust and code it out in the ECU?
Practically, no-one (?) can tell if a DPF has been removed or not, but it is a 'naughty' thing to do.
There was a thriving trade in this a year or 2 ago. Most mapping guys will still do it, but ask you to sign that it's an 'off road' mod or some such thing.
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