Why are people buying expensive diesels?
Discussion
heebeegeetee said:
Well I don't think it is a genuine question, and if it is he's answered it pretty much anyway.
I would hate to have one car, and I'm pretty sure all those who do have more than one car would also hate to only have one car too.
But also this is the way these threads always go - whenever someone says, "you know what, I've got a diesel, and it does xyz which I think is great, and I really like the car" the immediate response is so often along the lines of "yeahbutyeahbutyeahbut if-if-if-if whatifwhatifwhatif becauseF1."
Look, he's told you that he's (very) happy with the car. And that's it. He's explained his position and that's it.
As I said before, it never seems to go the other way - if someone says he loves his Caterham (for instance), us diesel guys don't immediately respond with pointing out the shortcomings re mpg and lack of space etc. We know he loves his Caterham, we know what it's all about, and that's it.
And whenever a diesel chap says he loves xy or z about his car someone always responds with a graph to prove him wrong
.
So as I say, 12 years in I've been here (which is a tad embarrassing
) and the diesel threads are still absolutely exactly the same - graphs, torque, gearing, power torque, graphs and more graphs - just because someone said what he liked about his car.
And I have to say, when someone says what he likes about his car, it shouldn't immediately be responded to imo by asking "yeahbut what if you could only have one car?" - because it's not relevant.
You OK? I would hate to have one car, and I'm pretty sure all those who do have more than one car would also hate to only have one car too.
But also this is the way these threads always go - whenever someone says, "you know what, I've got a diesel, and it does xyz which I think is great, and I really like the car" the immediate response is so often along the lines of "yeahbutyeahbutyeahbut if-if-if-if whatifwhatifwhatif becauseF1."
Look, he's told you that he's (very) happy with the car. And that's it. He's explained his position and that's it.
As I said before, it never seems to go the other way - if someone says he loves his Caterham (for instance), us diesel guys don't immediately respond with pointing out the shortcomings re mpg and lack of space etc. We know he loves his Caterham, we know what it's all about, and that's it.
And whenever a diesel chap says he loves xy or z about his car someone always responds with a graph to prove him wrong
.So as I say, 12 years in I've been here (which is a tad embarrassing
) and the diesel threads are still absolutely exactly the same - graphs, torque, gearing, power torque, graphs and more graphs - just because someone said what he liked about his car.And I have to say, when someone says what he likes about his car, it shouldn't immediately be responded to imo by asking "yeahbut what if you could only have one car?" - because it's not relevant.
ORD said:
Why not burn some old tyres in your garden while you are at it?
The diesel-lovers tendency to turn an already grossly polluting car into a mobile ecological disaster is astonishing. I would happily see people jailed for decats and the removal of DPFs.
173mph Top Speed (I've only seen a GPS 169mph) no dpf's or cats removed & no smokeThe diesel-lovers tendency to turn an already grossly polluting car into a mobile ecological disaster is astonishing. I would happily see people jailed for decats and the removal of DPFs.
ZX10R NIN said:
Olivera said:
Yes you won't get that, you'll get better. The 340i makes more power which is far superior to extra torque. Heck 4 cylinder cars such as the A45 have more bhp.
340i 326bhp 330 lbft 0-60mph 4.8 seconds 335d 313bhp 465 lbft 0-60mph 4.7 seconds
Anyway you are correct the 335d does have a faster 0-60mph time, but it's xdrive and the 340i isnt. 340i xdrive is available in the US and is faster still
Olivera said:
ZX10R NIN said:
Olivera said:
Yes you won't get that, you'll get better. The 340i makes more power which is far superior to extra torque. Heck 4 cylinder cars such as the A45 have more bhp.
340i 326bhp 330 lbft 0-60mph 4.8 seconds 335d 313bhp 465 lbft 0-60mph 4.7 seconds
Anyway you are correct the 335d does have a faster 0-60mph time, but it's xdrive and the 340i isnt. 340i xdrive is available in the US and is faster still
Olivera said:
ZX10R NIN said:
Olivera said:
Yes you won't get that, you'll get better. The 340i makes more power which is far superior to extra torque. Heck 4 cylinder cars such as the A45 have more bhp.
340i 326bhp 330 lbft 0-60mph 4.8 seconds RWD 335d 313bhp 465 lbft 0-60mph 4.7 seconds 4WD
D3 346bhp 516 lbft 0-60mph 4.5 seconds RWD
Anyway you are correct the 335d does have a faster 0-60mph time, but it's xdrive and the 340i isnt. 340i xdrive is available in the US and is faster still
Edited by ZX10R NIN on Thursday 24th September 01:05
Nope. It's all about making sure the petrol isn't faster than the diesel. It's really obvious if you look at the torque figures for the 320i - it's deliberately capped really low to stop that car being faster than the diesel. BMW does not want to sell the 320i if it can get you into a diesel.
The 335i was designed to feel as much like an NA engine as possible.
The twin turbos on the original version were small and each ran a bank of 3 cylinders. The idea was to give a little bit more power than the 330i, but to keep the throttle response immediate and eliminate lag.
The 335d was designed to match the 335i, so that it was a genuine alternative.
I don't think they have a preference to sell either model and they are aimed at a similar customer base.
What BMW have done for years is creatively manipulate tuning (and model names) to create layers throughout the range.
For example the 325d e90 was initially a 2.5 litre straight six diesel, but was then re-launched as an LCI model with the same 3.0 litre engine used in the 330d. The only difference was the tuning.
In the case of the 335i it's fairly clear that they manipulated the power to keep a healthy gap between it and the M3
The twin turbos on the original version were small and each ran a bank of 3 cylinders. The idea was to give a little bit more power than the 330i, but to keep the throttle response immediate and eliminate lag.
The 335d was designed to match the 335i, so that it was a genuine alternative.
I don't think they have a preference to sell either model and they are aimed at a similar customer base.
What BMW have done for years is creatively manipulate tuning (and model names) to create layers throughout the range.
For example the 325d e90 was initially a 2.5 litre straight six diesel, but was then re-launched as an LCI model with the same 3.0 litre engine used in the 330d. The only difference was the tuning.
In the case of the 335i it's fairly clear that they manipulated the power to keep a healthy gap between it and the M3
ZX10R NIN said:
Olivera said:
ZX10R NIN said:
Olivera said:
Yes you won't get that, you'll get better. The 340i makes more power which is far superior to extra torque. Heck 4 cylinder cars such as the A45 have more bhp.
340i 326bhp 330 lbft 0-60mph 4.8 seconds RWD 335d 313bhp 465 lbft 0-60mph 4.7 seconds 4WD
D3 346bhp 516 lbft 0-60mph 4.5 seconds RWD
Anyway you are correct the 335d does have a faster 0-60mph time, but it's xdrive and the 340i isnt. 340i xdrive is available in the US and is faster still
Edited by ZX10R NIN on Thursday 24th September 01:05
ORD said:
Nope. It's all about making sure the petrol isn't faster than the diesel. It's really obvious if you look at the torque figures for the 320i - it's deliberately capped really low to stop that car being faster than the diesel. BMW does not want to sell the 320i if it can get you into a diesel.
That's right folks. He's been the the Web site. It is a conspiracy. BMW doesn't actually want you to purchase a 320i. It occupies space in the product portfolio for show only.And never forget: petrol purifies the air, while diesel dirties it. The large-capacity petrol owner signals his deep committment to the environment in this way.
scherzkeks said:
ORD said:
Nope. It's all about making sure the petrol isn't faster than the diesel. It's really obvious if you look at the torque figures for the 320i - it's deliberately capped really low to stop that car being faster than the diesel. BMW does not want to sell the 320i if it can get you into a diesel.
That's right folks. He's been the the Web site. It is a conspiracy. BMW doesn't actually want you to purchase a 320i. It occupies space in the product portfolio for show only.And never forget: petrol purifies the air, while diesel dirties it. The large-capacity petrol owner signals his deep committment to the environment in this way.
BMW band their cars so that the performance is broadly the same for the same "model". Ignoring of course that the step-auto in the diesel is faster and the 335d is x-drive only just look how close they all are. Totally engineered to be that way because marketing.
320d ED 160hp 7.7s
320i ED 167hp 7.4s
320i SE 181hp 7.1s
320d SE 181hp 7.3s
330i 248hp 5.7s
330d 254hp 5.4s
335i 301hp 5.0s
335d 308hp 4.6s
heebeegeetee said:
gizlaroc said:
It was a genuine question, would he be happy with the 335d as his one car? That to me really tells me if someone loves their car.
Well I don't think it is a genuine question, and if it is he's answered it pretty much anyway.I would hate to have one car, and I'm pretty sure all those who do have more than one car would also hate to only have one car too.
But also this is the way these threads always go - whenever someone says, "you know what, I've got a diesel, and it does xyz which I think is great, and I really like the car" the immediate response is so often along the lines of "yeahbutyeahbutyeahbut if-if-if-if whatifwhatifwhatif becauseF1."
Look, he's told you that he's (very) happy with the car. And that's it. He's explained his position and that's it.
As I said before, it never seems to go the other way - if someone says he loves his Caterham (for instance), us diesel guys don't immediately respond with pointing out the shortcomings re mpg and lack of space etc. We know he loves his Caterham, we know what it's all about, and that's it.
And whenever a diesel chap says he loves xy or z about his car someone always responds with a graph to prove him wrong
.So as I say, 12 years in I've been here (which is a tad embarrassing
) and the diesel threads are still absolutely exactly the same - graphs, torque, gearing, power torque, graphs and more graphs - just because someone said what he liked about his car.The guy has an M3 and a 335d, he seems pretty pleased with the 335d, as do many on here and many who have come from cars like the M3, not just moving up from a 320d where you would expect them to be impressed.
I wondered if he felt that without a high revving petrol car to jump into occasionally he would find the 335d lacking, if he was to have only one car would the 335d tick all the boxes, or would maybe if it was only one would a 340i be better?
He actually said that he wouldn't feel the need for a 340i and the 335d is great, he would rather an M diesel, which is saying something for the 335d.
I'll admit, while I had my 335i touring I often wondered if the 335d might not have been the more sensible choice, my 335i was an auto and thus would it really make much difference, while also saving me £20 a week at the pump?
heebeegeetee said:
And I have to say, when someone says what he likes about his car, it shouldn't immediately be responded to imo by asking "yeahbut what if you could only have one car?" - because it's not relevant.
It may mot be relevant to you, but I like to think people are honest enough to give an answer, they can only guess whether 'just their 335d' would be good enough to keep them happy if it were their only car, but his answer told me everything I needed to know, if he had said 'no way would I want it as my only car' that would have told me what I needed to know too. I'm not anti diesel at all, I own an X3 diesel, and it is a great car, in fact the more different cars I drive makes me appreciate it more and more, and that is a 2 litre 4cyl diesel which is the worst of the worst according to many on here, but it works in that car, it is mapped so has 220bhp which means it never feels slow, and it often returns 600 miles for £65, which for a fairly big AWD family car is not too shabby at all, especially when doing 25,000 miles a year, take it really easy and you will see 700 miles from a £65 fill up.
But the reason I own it is simple, the money I save on fuel allows me to buy a nearly new car, (compared with my old M3) and this is probably the reason many of us bought diesel in the first place, you then get used to it, and without thinking too much buy another and another, you marvel at the MPG and forget petrol engines have moved on, they feel like diesels to drive and the MPG is getting closer and closer to diesels too, problem we have now is there are no petrol models, not only to test, but in many cases to buy.
There is nothing wrong with diesels, even in expensive cars which is the point of the thread, and if they help sell more new cars by way of some man maths I'm all for them, I might even buy a Cayenne Diesel S myself when someone has finished with theirs, but I am also very honest with myself, I can't afford the 4.8 Turbo Petrol but I would never say I wouldn't prefer it.
Edited by gizlaroc on Thursday 24th September 12:48
ZX10R NIN said:
Wills2 said:
No it isn't you've quoted the allrad time already but ascribed to the RWD D3.
At Santa Pod over four runs my RWD D3 ran a best of 13.2 1/4 mile 0-60mph 4.6 worst 13.9 1/4 mile & 5.0 0-60mph Edited by ZX10R NIN on Thursday 24th September 10:05
scherzkeks said:
ORD said:
Nope. It's all about making sure the petrol isn't faster than the diesel. It's really obvious if you look at the torque figures for the 320i - it's deliberately capped really low to stop that car being faster than the diesel. BMW does not want to sell the 320i if it can get you into a diesel.
That's right folks. He's been the the Web site. It is a conspiracy. BMW doesn't actually want you to purchase a 320i. It occupies space in the product portfolio for show only.And never forget: petrol purifies the air, while diesel dirties it. The large-capacity petrol owner signals his deep committment to the environment in this way.
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