Why are people buying expensive diesels?

[daemon]

CorvetteConvert said:

daemon said:

ORD said:

Yeah. And who cares whether you poison the local environment as long as it saves you a few miserable quid, huh?

Humanity is pretty depressing.

And your car is the epitome of caring humanity is it?

In fairness his car is one of the cleanest and most economical cars of it's type.

"of its type", yes, but hardly good for the planet.

And is there not irony in judgementally declaring "humanity is pretty depressing" while you cruise around in a Porsche when a great part of the world starves to death and declaring "its hardly my fault"?

Edited by daemon on Sunday 4th October 09:44

[CorvetteConvert]

In answer to the OP i spend a lot of the year in the USA and dervs really are worth the extra for some modes of transport. The Yank pick-ups really make no sense whatsoever as petrols. The Dodge Ram, eg, with it's (lovely) 8.4 litre V10 and 6-7 mpg round town and barely 15 mpg on a run is crazy.
The new turbodiesels from Dodge, Ford and Chevrolet are around 6 litres only but have around 400 bhp as stock and are very easily modded to 600 bhp and 1200 lbft. One Dodge Ram i know of has just a 6.7 litre straight six yet makes a nice easy 510 bhp/960 lbft with few changes and it will do 25 mpg on a run despite weighing 3 tonnes.

[skyrover]

To be fair, only the SRT10 sports RAM has the vipers V10 engine.

The rest have the bog standard V8 Hemi

[ORD]

daemon said:

CorvetteConvert said:

daemon said:

ORD said:

Yeah. And who cares whether you poison the local environment as long as it saves you a few miserable quid, huh?

Humanity is pretty depressing.

And your car is the epitome of caring humanity is it?

In fairness his car is one of the cleanest and most economical cars of it's type.

"of its type", yes, but hardly good for the planet.

And is there not irony in judgementally declaring "humanity is pretty depressing" while you cruise around in a Porsche when a great part of the world starves to death and declaring "its hardly my fault"?

Edited by daemon on Sunday 4th October 09:44

Haha! Couldn't make it up. Smoke-lover goes for the ultimate 'What about...'. Childish envy.

[Condi]

ORD said:

Yeah. And who cares whether you poison the local environment as long as it saves you a few miserable quid, huh?

Humanity is pretty depressing.

In which case I presume you generate your own renewable electric, buy 'fair-trade' food, ride a horse to work and dont buy a new TV or any gadgets.

Because who cares if you poison the environment in some far off place as long as you have the latest 'must-haves' huh?

Humanity is pretty hypocritical.

[daemon]

ORD said:

Haha! Couldn't make it up. Smoke-lover goes for the ultimate 'What about...'. Childish envy.

No, i'm not a "smoke lover". I've had diesels, yes, however our main car is a 3.7 litre v6. My previous car to the jag diesel was a VW Caddy v6, and i'm the first to admit i'd prefer a 3.0i v6 in the jag rather than the literally transit-van-engined one i thought was a good buy. So, as i've had diesels in the past when it has suited me to do so, I think the phrase you're looking for is "objective" about fuel type.

Just pointing out the hypocrisy of your statement. Its hard to take a moral high ground over pollution, inequality and selfishness by declaring the rest of humanity "pretty depressing" when a great part of the world lives in dire poverty whilst you're driving around in a Porsche and declaring "its hardly my fault".

I think thats quite laugh out loud funny.

Edited by daemon on Sunday 4th October 09:57

[daemon]

Condi said:

ORD said:

Yeah. And who cares whether you poison the local environment as long as it saves you a few miserable quid, huh?

Humanity is pretty depressing.

In which case I presume you generate your own renewable electric, buy 'fair-trade' food, ride a horse to work and dont buy a new TV or any gadgets.

Because who cares if you poison the environment in some far off place as long as you have the latest 'must-haves' huh?

Humanity is pretty hypocritical.

Glad someone else has picked up on the hypocrisy.

[ORD]

True. It's all-or-nothing. Once you have a TV, you may as well poison the local air. No possible way that there might be a middle ground. That would be hypocritical.

[daemon]

ORD said:

True. It's all-or-nothing. Once you have a TV, you may as well poison the local air. No possible way that there might be a middle ground. That would be hypocritical.

Yes i'm sure millions of dying children in africa will applaud your personal stance against diesels.

EDIT: News just in - they're organising a rock concert in Africa to raise money so you can get a 2015 Porsche...

Edited by daemon on Sunday 4th October 10:09

[ORD]

daemon said:

ORD said:

True. It's all-or-nothing. Once you have a TV, you may as well poison the local air. No possible way that there might be a middle ground. That would be hypocritical.

Yes i'm sure millions of dying children in africa will applaud your personal stance against diesels.

They'll probably think it's completely irrelevant, which it is. Look up 'Whataboutism'. It's the last refuge of someone who cannot discuss an issue on its merits.

[ZX10R NIN]

Wills2 said:

810lb/ft....

Highly modified vs. not even current stock cars, Jesus wept.....like I said desperate.

Keep up read from 53 onwards & understand the conversation & context of the post.

Also I note you didn't comment on the choice of Panamera's in the OP's budget.

[ZX10R NIN]

CorvetteConvert said:

WHAT kind of changes got a 535D to 810 lbft? From the stock 450-ish?
I like many dervs but 810? Surely not.

Edited by CorvetteConvert on Sunday 4th October 09:34

At a guess I'd say uprated pistons intercooler turbos etc they probably blew one up then went to town & rebuilt it properly.

[ORD]

daemon said:

From the man who cant be objective about fuel types in a car?

What? I'm not sure you understand what 'objective' means.

[daemon]

ORD said:

What? I'm not sure you understand what 'objective' means.

And you certainly dont know what hypocrisy means.

[ZX10R NIN]

ORD said:

Yep. Thanks for asking. The only meaningful pollution from it is CO2 and I more than pay for that in VED and petrol tax. If nobody uses that money sensibly, that's hardly my fault.

Up until recently every diesel driver was paying more for their fuel to, your choice of transport isn't the problem.
I've been to states in the US which is predominantly petrol & the air quality isn't that great either so CO2 does something to air quality, the reality is the environmental issue is bigger than cars if you want it tackled you have to start at the top.

[loafer123]

I have no idea why everyone is arguing in this thread as different engine types have different roles.

I currently run;

a Grand Cherokee Summit 3.0 Diesel - effortless, easy cruising for long journeys with lots of low down torque allowing a relaxed drive
a Mini Cooper S 1.6 Turbo Petrol - zipping around the lanes and town - like driving a grown up go-kart
a Porsche 928 GTS - 5.4 V8 - long distance GT with limitless power when you want to overtake/drive fast

Each have their place.

Next one for me will be the Tesla - I love the look of them and the power delivery sounds awesome.

[ORD]

ZX10R NIN said:

ORD said:

Yep. Thanks for asking. The only meaningful pollution from it is CO2 and I more than pay for that in VED and petrol tax. If nobody uses that money sensibly, that's hardly my fault.

Up until recently every diesel driver was paying more for their fuel to, your choice of transport isn't the problem.
I've been to states in the US which is predominantly petrol & the air quality isn't that great either so CO2 does something to air quality, the reality is the environmental issue is bigger than cars if you want it tackled you have to start at the top.

I couldn't agree more. I think I've made pretty clear that I think driving a diesel car in a highly populated area is an unnecessary addition to a much bigger problem, particularly as regards local air quality. I think that's a step too far in selfishness given that the only advantage over a petrol car is saving some money.

I also avoid flying much, for largely similar reasons - it doesn't harm me much not to fly, and it makes a huge difference as regards not cocking up the world.

Apparently, it's 'hypoctical' to do anything but either live in an Eco-commune or say 'Sod it! I'll do what I like and fk everyone else!'. I think most sensible people go for a middle ground.

[Elysium]

ORD said:

Yeah. And who cares whether you poison the local environment as long as it saves you a few miserable quid, huh?

Humanity is pretty depressing.

So your argument is that diesel drivers are negatively impacting the local environment in order to save money?

You are being overly simplistic in an attempt to justify your view that petrol is less harmful than diesel.

We all cause environmental damage every day. The developed world is consuming resources at an alarming rate. If everyone in the world lived like us we would need the resources of 5 earths. The global population is also increasing - 3 billion more people in my lifetime. How many can the earth support?

All transport causes environmental damage. Petrol and diesel cars use diminishing fossil fuel stocks. You may not accept that man is influencing the climate through greenhouse gas emissions, but setting this aside, we are changing the atmosphere in a way that has never been done before. An enormous global experiment where no-one knows the outcome.

Diesel cars are cheaper to run because of the tax regime. That is not our choice.

I chose a diesel car because it had the best engine for my requirements. It cost less than the only available petrol equivalent because it had stronger residuals, which is a reflection of market demand.

I did not choose diesel because I believed it was better for the environment. I don't think they are better or worse.

Edited by Elysium on Sunday 4th October 10:38

[Condi]

ORD said:

Apparently, it's 'hypoctical' to do anything but either live in an Eco-commune or say 'Sod it! I'll do what I like and fk everyone else!'. I think most sensible people go for a middle ground.

Right, and many people have bought diesels because they have lower CO2 emissions, thus doing their bit for the environment. General public didnt even know about NOx before this whole thing blew up in the media, and I doubt many people understand what it does even now.


So if you're worried about the environment, there are plenty of things you can worry about before going on a crusade against diesels. Why not take a stance against brown coal? That produces far more harmful emissions than diesel. Why not take a stand against the dirty and illegal Nigerian oil drilling? Why not look at the damage to the environment from battery production? I presume you already buy renewable electric from a specialist provider? Use rainwater for flushing toilets?


You cant blame people for buying diesels when for years they were promoted, both by the manufacturers and government as good for the environment.

[ORD]

Condi said:

Right, and many people have bought diesels because they have lower CO2 emissions, thus doing their bit for the environment. General public didnt even know about NOx before this whole thing blew up in the media, and I doubt many people understand what it does even now.


So if you're worried about the environment, there are plenty of things you can worry about before going on a crusade against diesels. Why not take a stance against brown coal? That produces far more harmful emissions than diesel. Why not take a stand against the dirty and illegal Nigerian oil drilling? Why not look at the damage to the environment from battery production? I presume you already buy renewable electric from a specialist provider? Use rainwater for flushing toilets?


You cant blame people for buying diesels when for years they were promoted, both by the manufacturers and government as good for the environment.

I don't disagree. A lot of people were seriously misled.

This thread is about affluent people driving diesel cars. If it was a thread about Nigerian oil drilling, I would look it up and express a view.