Why are people buying expensive diesels?
Discussion
ORD said:
I don't disagree. A lot of people were seriously misled.
This thread is about affluent people driving diesel cars. If it was a thread about Nigerian oil drilling, I would look it up and express a view.
So do you see the hypocrisy in your statement, declaring "humanity is depressing" for, in your view, not caring about the local environment and driving diesel cars, given how many other factors of your lifestyle contribute towards the problem of pollution?This thread is about affluent people driving diesel cars. If it was a thread about Nigerian oil drilling, I would look it up and express a view.
Edited by daemon on Sunday 4th October 11:41
ORD said:
This thread is about affluent people driving diesel cars. If it was a thread about Nigerian oil drilling, I would look it up and express a view.
We know you hate diesel but no need to jump in at every opportunity and keep ramming it down our throats, it's getting a bit tedious.
By the way I love diesel
ORD said:
I don't disagree. A lot of people were seriously misled.
Seriously? The majority of people are not company car drivers. For the rest of us, the derv cars are more expensive and the fuel is more expensive. Not sure about the ved, I don't think the ved on my old Bora is that much cheaper than my old Boxster, but I can't see a hundred quid a year on ved doing much to redress the balance.For the use we put them too, a diesel car has (until the dpf issue imo) made more sense. In what way were we seriously misled?
heebeegeetee said:
Seriously? The majority of people are not company car drivers. For the rest of us, the derv cars are more expensive and the fuel is more expensive. Not sure about the ved, I don't think the ved on my old Bora is that much cheaper than my old Boxster, but I can't see a hundred quid a year on ved doing much to redress the balance.
For the use we put them too, a diesel car has (until the dpf issue imo) made more sense. In what way were we seriously misled?
Told that diesel was environmentally sound. Encouraged to believe it was the sensible default choice for most people. None of this should be news to anyone - trying to find a petrol car or persuading a dealer you don't want a diesel has been very hard for years.For the use we put them too, a diesel car has (until the dpf issue imo) made more sense. In what way were we seriously misled?
This whole diesel thing and the reactions of some on here reminds me a bit of the whole Icesave thing.
You do something sensible, it's sensible because vehicle manufacturers and the government say it's sensible and when it turns out that things weren't entirely as sensible as perhaps it seemed, a whole bunch of people come out of the woodwork claiming "I told you so" as if they somehow had insider knowledge and are smarter because they somehow didn't "fall for it".
Anyone with half a brain knows that diesels aren't a smart choice for driving around town, but please don't try to pretend that petrol is glacier water and that Porsche's are the epitome of cleanliness - I'v had a Porsche, nice car and arguably clean for what it is, but it's hardly the green choice.
You do something sensible, it's sensible because vehicle manufacturers and the government say it's sensible and when it turns out that things weren't entirely as sensible as perhaps it seemed, a whole bunch of people come out of the woodwork claiming "I told you so" as if they somehow had insider knowledge and are smarter because they somehow didn't "fall for it".
Anyone with half a brain knows that diesels aren't a smart choice for driving around town, but please don't try to pretend that petrol is glacier water and that Porsche's are the epitome of cleanliness - I'v had a Porsche, nice car and arguably clean for what it is, but it's hardly the green choice.
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: This whole diesel thing and the reactions of some on here reminds me a bit of the whole Icesave thing.
You do something sensible, it's sensible because vehicle manufacturers and the government say it's sensible and when it turns out that things weren't entirely as sensible as perhaps it seemed, a whole bunch of people come out of the woodwork claiming "I told you so" as if they somehow had insider knowledge and are smarter because they somehow didn't "fall for it".
I agree - remember however that the poor Icesave victims were bailed out by the tax payer, including those, like me, who assessed the risk of putting savings into a financial institution based in a tiny island/country with a tiny population was not acceptable, irrespective of what the UK gvt view was. I got lynched here for daring to say that it didn't take a genius to see the risk and that the higher yield simply reflected that, surprise surprise. You do something sensible, it's sensible because vehicle manufacturers and the government say it's sensible and when it turns out that things weren't entirely as sensible as perhaps it seemed, a whole bunch of people come out of the woodwork claiming "I told you so" as if they somehow had insider knowledge and are smarter because they somehow didn't "fall for it".
ORD said:
I don't disagree. A lot of people were seriously misled.
This thread is about affluent people driving diesel cars. If it was a thread about Nigerian oil drilling, I would look it up and express a view.
Affluent people or hard working people? Here's the thing the guy with the diesel Panamera will be driving through your town one day then driving 300 miles the next & not using as many of the earths resources to do it, yes diesels aren't at there greatest around town but not every diesel car spends it's life in city centre's either.This thread is about affluent people driving diesel cars. If it was a thread about Nigerian oil drilling, I would look it up and express a view.
So which is better depends on useage as always, but just looking locally at environmental issues is short sighted.
If everyone drove a petrol we'd be eating into the resources even faster so that's a bad thing to isn't it?
You're worried about the local environment but I feel you have to look further afield, also when the buses strike the air cleans up by around 40% so why not start there?
The nox debate is on going & there are pros & cons to both fuels.
I take it your Porsche will be making way for a Tesla then?
Seriously backfired? Why are you so emotional? Bizarre.
I'm not a tree hugger at all. But I draw the line well before pumping NOx into the lungs of those around me. If I had a garage, I would buy an EV for town driving in a heartbeat.
I would also ban diesel buses and taxis, for what it's worth. No excuse for it.
I'm not a tree hugger at all. But I draw the line well before pumping NOx into the lungs of those around me. If I had a garage, I would buy an EV for town driving in a heartbeat.
I would also ban diesel buses and taxis, for what it's worth. No excuse for it.
ORD said:
Seriously backfired? Why are you so emotional? Bizarre.
I'm not a tree hugger at all. But I draw the line well before pumping NOx into the lungs of those around me. If I had a garage, I would buy an EV for town driving in a heartbeat.
I would also ban diesel buses and taxis, for what it's worth. No excuse for it.
Sell the Porsche buy the house with a garage & get your EV I'm not a tree hugger at all. But I draw the line well before pumping NOx into the lungs of those around me. If I had a garage, I would buy an EV for town driving in a heartbeat.
I would also ban diesel buses and taxis, for what it's worth. No excuse for it.
lolORD said:
ZX10R NIN said:
Sell the Porsche buy the house with a garage & get your EV lol
lol
You wouldn't get a garage in London for the price of my car, let alone a garage with a house attached.ORD said:
Told that diesel was environmentally sound. Encouraged to believe it was the sensible default choice for most people. None of this should be news to anyone - trying to find a petrol car or persuading a dealer you don't want a diesel has been very hard for years.
Who told you that diesel was environmentally sound? A choice between petrol and diesel can only be the lessor of two evils.When the very first CO2 based taxation was introduced for company cars diesels carried a penalty due to their emissions recognising that they were not as clean as a petrol car emitting the same g/km of CO2. The EU3, 4, 5 and 6 changes have been designed to deal with with this.
NOX for Euro 6 petrol and diesel cars is about the same. Despite the VW scandal no-one is saying that euro 6 diesels do not work.
Your posts suggest that you believe a great myth of 'green diesels' has been swept away. I don't think this is the case at all.
Elysium said:
Who told you that diesel was environmentally sound? A choice between petrol and diesel can only be the lessor of two evils.
When the very first CO2 based taxation was introduced for company cars diesels carried a penalty due to their emissions recognising that they were not as clean as a petrol car emitting the same g/km of CO2. The EU3, 4, 5 and 6 changes have been designed to deal with with this.
NOX for Euro 6 petrol and diesel cars is about the same. Despite the VW scandal no-one is saying that euro 6 diesels do not work.
Your posts suggest that you believe a great myth of 'green diesels' has been swept away. I don't think this is the case at all.
All fair points, except that I would add 'Yet' to your point about Euro 6 diesels. The real world tests show that diesels basically haven't got cleaner for 15 years, don't they? I would be highly sceptical that there has been a step change now. When the very first CO2 based taxation was introduced for company cars diesels carried a penalty due to their emissions recognising that they were not as clean as a petrol car emitting the same g/km of CO2. The EU3, 4, 5 and 6 changes have been designed to deal with with this.
NOX for Euro 6 petrol and diesel cars is about the same. Despite the VW scandal no-one is saying that euro 6 diesels do not work.
Your posts suggest that you believe a great myth of 'green diesels' has been swept away. I don't think this is the case at all.
Actually NOX for Euro 6 cars is about the same as petrol Euro 4 cars from a decade ago, petrol is ahead still, but yes the gap has narrowed.
The thing is some of us always felt that we were being conned. You only have to get a lungful of diesel vapour by passing traffic when walking along any path to know how foul it is. Petrol isn't clean either but a modern well maintained petrol car doesn't leave me gagging at the kerbside as a passing diesel car can do.
However people have been misled. All these low company car tax diesels and VED free vehicles, not to mention superior "on paper at least" MPG.
ORD said:
All fair points, except that I would add 'Yet' to your point about Euro 6 diesels. The real world tests show that diesels basically haven't got cleaner for 15 years, don't they? I would be highly sceptical that there has been a step change now.
Not at all, real world NOx emissions are down about 40%.http://www.theicct.org/news/press-release-new-icct...
ORD said:
Told that diesel was environmentally sound. Encouraged to believe it was the sensible default choice for most people. None of this should be news to anyone - trying to find a petrol car or persuading a dealer you don't want a diesel has been very hard for years.
It was back in the 90s at least when we were told derv was environmentally sound, but even back in the 90s this was reversed with nonsensical stories of diesel cars killing 100,000 people per year. The Uk has consistently campaigned against diesel cars, then the Kyoto/EC thing about CO2 came in, but diesel fuel still consistently remained more expensive than petrol, in contrast to the rest of Europe.The period of time when the public was misled was very short and really quite a long time ago.
People have bought diesel cars though because (like myself) they find they are best suited to specific purposes, and that's why you can struggle to buy petrol versions of certain models - nobody wants 'em.
Edited by heebeegeetee on Sunday 4th October 17:13
Condi said:
ORD said:
All fair points, except that I would add 'Yet' to your point about Euro 6 diesels. The real world tests show that diesels basically haven't got cleaner for 15 years, don't they? I would be highly sceptical that there has been a step change now.
Not at all, real world NOx emissions are down about 40%.http://www.theicct.org/news/press-release-new-icct...
Part of the problem is that diesels are being used completely inappropriately as runaround and town cars. Better EVs will make a huge difference in towns
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff