Why are people buying expensive diesels?

[scherzkeks]

heebeegeetee said:

When you rad the about the topic in the media you could very quickly get the impression that nothing comes out of the tailpipes of petrol cars, and clearly, that belief is here too. You don't read about harmful additives in petrol, or the fact that more journeys by derv powered hgvs delivering fuel need to be factored when comparing petrol to diesel or whatever.

We know what pre-cat petrol emissions look like and they are worse in terms of NOx and HC. Whether the problem of catlyst degredation over time has been solved I do not know. Diesel's prime hazard to human health are particulates, but modern particulate traps do quite well here.

Personally I think the reverse course on diesel has more to do with its cost as an interim solution until we are weaned off the IC engine. A 3-way cat has to be cheaper to fit than a part. trap with urea system and so forth.

[Ares]

Does anyone really buy an oil burner because it's (seen as being) environmentally friendly?

Does anyone really buy a petrol because it's more environmentally friendly?


Either way, membership of PH should be questioned. It one thing having a nod towards MPG for financial reasons, but choosing a car primarily for environmental reason, whilst understandable for the bearded/tree-hugging/sandal-wearing fraternity, is surely the furthest position away from a PH?

[Fastdruid]

Ares said:

Does anyone really buy an oil burner because it's (seen as being) environmentally friendly?

Yes. Of course they've been pushed into that by incentives and punishments if they stray but that is the long and short of it. It's wrapped up as a financial incentive but it's really purely for environmental reasons.

The government decided that the devils fuel was greener and so decreed that all cars should sip from the black pump. You've really got to *want* a petrol to avoid one as a company car etc.

[daemon]

Ares said:

Does anyone really buy an oil burner because it's (seen as being) environmentally friendly?

No.

[Pan Pan Pan]

ORD said:

A

Pan Pan Pan said:

Except that there are two thirds more petrol engined cars than diesels in the UK so overall petrol cars are emitting far more pollution than diesel engined cars, cut the number of petrol cars down to the same number as diesels then you might have a case.

Another hard-of-thinking diesel lover.

Would you agree that Americans are fatter than Chinese people even though the total mass of Chinese people is higher because there are more of them? A bit like that.

Another dimwit trying to convince people that two thirds is actually less than one third.

[Devil2575]

Ares said:

Either way, membership of PH should be questioned. It one thing having a nod towards MPG for financial reasons, but choosing a car primarily for environmental reason, whilst understandable for the bearded/tree-hugging/sandal-wearing fraternity, is surely the furthest position away from a PH?

Is it only the "bearded/tree-hugging/sandal-wearing fraternity" who care about the environment?

Does being a petrolhead mean that your love of cars/driving has to over ride your ability to understand the negative effect that they may have on our environment?

I enjoy a beer, and by enjoy I mean I really enjoy, but that doesn't mean I am not allowed to understand the consequences of excess alcohol and the damage it does to society.

[heebeegeetee]

Devil2575 said:

Does being a petrolhead mean that your love of cars/driving has to over ride your ability to understand the negative effect that they may have on our environment?

I'd say so, yes.

[Ares]

Devil2575 said:

Ares said:

Either way, membership of PH should be questioned. It one thing having a nod towards MPG for financial reasons, but choosing a car primarily for environmental reason, whilst understandable for the bearded/tree-hugging/sandal-wearing fraternity, is surely the furthest position away from a PH?

Is it only the "bearded/tree-hugging/sandal-wearing fraternity" who care about the environment?

Does being a petrolhead mean that your love of cars/driving has to over ride your ability to understand the negative effect that they may have on our environment?

I enjoy a beer, and by enjoy I mean I really enjoy, but that doesn't mean I am not allowed to understand the consequences of excess alcohol and the damage it does to society.

No, but the key word is PRIMARILY.

Would a true PH chose their (main) car PRIMARILY for environmental reasons?

[Ares]

Fastdruid said:

Ares said:

Does anyone really buy an oil burner because it's (seen as being) environmentally friendly?

Yes. Of course they've been pushed into that by incentives and punishments if they stray but that is the long and short of it. It's wrapped up as a financial incentive but it's really purely for environmental reasons.

The government decided that the devils fuel was greener and so decreed that all cars should sip from the black pump. You've really got to *want* a petrol to avoid one as a company car etc.

But that's cost/financial reasons, not choosing that car for environmental reasons.

If everything written over the past few pages is indeed true, the environmental choice would be to opt for the smaller petrol engined car even if it came with a higher tax liability.

[Mr Gear]

heebeegeetee said:

Devil2575 said:

Does being a petrolhead mean that your love of cars/driving has to over ride your ability to understand the negative effect that they may have on our environment?

I'd say so, yes.

I'd call myself a PH - I love racing, I frequently enjoy driving, I love the design and engineering and history of the motorcar, but I do everything I can to avoid causing excess pollution, so I avoid stupid short urban journeys and commuting where I can use my bike instead.

What's the point in complaining about pollution and traffic? Unless you are doing something to try and help the situation, you are a hypocrite. I don't want to be a hypocrite.

I hate diesel stink, so I refuse to buy a diesel.

[CoolHands]

I commute on a scooter and I can tell you I'm fking sick of stty diesels and the crap they chuck out. Because I'm out in the air I may notice it more than you commuters in cars. But believe me, they're st. New ones, old ones, flashed ones for extra torque, whatever. they all fking chuck out loads of black st when they acdelerate.

Also the noise level pisses me off. When is euro legislation going to address that? (seriously). I want all diesel knackers to have 6 inches of sound deadening foam around a sealed engine compartment. fking outrageous the amount of noise vans lorries and buses make when accelerating.

[Monkeylegend]

CoolHands said:

New ones, old ones, flashed ones for extra torque, whatever. they all fking chuck out loads of black st when they acdelerate.

No they don't.

[daemon]

CoolHands said:

I commute on a scooter and I can tell you I'm fking sick of stty diesels and the crap they chuck out. Because I'm out in the air I may notice it more than you commuters in cars. But believe me, they're st. New ones, old ones, flashed ones for extra torque, whatever. they all fking chuck out loads of black st when they acdelerate.

Also the noise level pisses me off. When is euro legislation going to address that? (seriously). I want all diesel knackers to have 6 inches of sound deadening foam around a sealed engine compartment. fking outrageous the amount of noise vans lorries and buses make when accelerating.

If you cant beat them, join them?

[CoolHands]

Monkeylegend said:

CoolHands said:

New ones, old ones, flashed ones for extra torque, whatever. they all fking chuck out loads of black st when they acdelerate.

No they don't.

that's patently untrue. As anyone with eyes can see. Perhaps at a nice high average speed on a motorway they're nice and clean, but in rush-hour traffic all across london (which is where I am) they are terrible.

[Monkeylegend]

CoolHands said:

Monkeylegend said:

CoolHands said:

New ones, old ones, flashed ones for extra torque, whatever. they all fking chuck out loads of black st when they acdelerate.

No they don't.

that's patently untrue. As anyone with eyes can see. Perhaps at a nice high average speed on a motorway they're nice and clean, but in rush-hour traffic all across london (which is where I am) they are terrible.

Wrong, they don't all chuck out loads of black st, even in London, even in rush hour traffic. It's just your prejudice against diesel.

[anonymous-user]

Pan Pan Pan said:

ORD said:

A

Pan Pan Pan said:

Except that there are two thirds more petrol engined cars than diesels in the UK so overall petrol cars are emitting far more pollution than diesel engined cars, cut the number of petrol cars down to the same number as diesels then you might have a case.

Another hard-of-thinking diesel lover.

Would you agree that Americans are fatter than Chinese people even though the total mass of Chinese people is higher because there are more of them? A bit like that.

Another dimwit trying to convince people that two thirds is actually less than one third.

I thought they were ecof*ckwits?

[nickfrog]

Pan Pan Pan said:

ORD said:

A

Pan Pan Pan said:

Except that there are two thirds more petrol engined cars than diesels in the UK so overall petrol cars are emitting far more pollution than diesel engined cars, cut the number of petrol cars down to the same number as diesels then you might have a case.

Another hard-of-thinking diesel lover.

Would you agree that Americans are fatter than Chinese people even though the total mass of Chinese people is higher because there are more of them? A bit like that.

Another dimwit trying to convince people that two thirds is actually less than one third.

You can't be serious, surely ?

[anonymous-user]

Monkeylegend said:

Wrong, they don't all chuck out loads of black st, even in London, even in rush hour traffic. It's just your prejudice against diesel.

I watch loads of new Merc's at the local dealership being screwed up the road..all of them smoke to some degree. Your denial is based upon your personal preferences.

[Monkeylegend]

yonex said:

Monkeylegend said:

Wrong, they don't all chuck out loads of black st, even in London, even in rush hour traffic. It's just your prejudice against diesel.

I watch loads of new Merc's at the local dealership being screwed up the road..all of them smoke to some degree. Your denial is based upon your personal preferences.

No, personal experience, and based on the fact that all those with a working DPF don't belch out black smoke anymore.

Just to add I like diesel and surprisingly like petrol also. I have no prejudice against either

[ZX10R NIN]

ORD said:

ZX10R NIN said:

Rather than digging each others personal choices out, why not get onto your local councils & get them to remove the speed humps & 20mph limits.
After a year long battle mine are being lowered I think the 5th bill for a new spliter finally done it (they arrived after I'd moved in) so complaining to them will make more of a difference to your air quality than complaining about someones choice of engine.

Edited by ZX10R NIN on Thursday 8th October 06:56

Hopeless, I am afraid. They will say that lower speed limits lead to smoother traffic flow and so less congestion. It might be true at peak hours, but it's nonsense at the times I do my driving. I have literally never seen a single car respect the 20 limits on my route to work in london (630am and light traffic). I assume that this is tolerated because the police know that the 20 limit on a wide, well-sighted road is just insane.

I wouldn't say it's hopeless, it's hard work I agree but perseverance can get you somewhere but it'll take people speaking as one, the 20mph limit was introduced to lower the chance of a death should a pedestrian be hit by a car, nothing to do with traffic flow.

Driving at 20mph my gearbox can't workout what gear it wants to be in on the diesel & petrol driving like this sees my fuel drop to around 28mpg diesel, 12- 14mpg Petrol at 30mph it's around the 36mpg diesel, 17mpg petrol.

The number of traffic lights doesn't help neither does removing trees & green space, as well as the fact that over the last decade carriageway space allocated to cars has reduced by around a quarter & this will rise to an even higher figure with the new cycle lanes is it a wonder air quality is bad.

People driving diesels is the cherry on top, the real issues are the other things underneath which contribute to people buying a diesel, if you don't want to tackle those issues I don't think anyone should be coming on here complaining about peoples personal life choices.

Get onto your councils people, it worked for the cyclists after what I regard as a great campaign they've managed to portray themselves as the most vulnerable road user in London (they're not motorcyclists are) as a result we now have superhighways for push bikes, so making a fuss can work.

Edited by ZX10R NIN on Friday 9th October 07:35