Why are people buying expensive diesels?

[Fastdruid]

CoolHands said:

I commute on a scooter and I can tell you I'm fking sick of stty diesels and the crap they chuck out. Because I'm out in the air I may notice it more than you commuters in cars. But believe me, they're st. New ones, old ones, flashed ones for extra torque, whatever. they all fking chuck out loads of black st when they accelerate.

With the furore of this whole VW fiasco one of the news programs a few days ago did a piece on air quality, they rigged up one of the presenters with some detection kit and sent him on his way to see how bad it was via various methods of transport. The best was in the car, the worst was on the (push)bike... So the least polluted place to be is safely tucked up inside the vehicle contributing to/producing the pollution!

In regard to black st out of diesels, I see it a lot still and some from new cars that *should* have a DPF. What I can't comment on is if they still have a DPF or not and if it's still working. From what I've read the DPF should block ~80% or so of the particles but that does mean that there is 20% still that could make up some of the black smoke still seen.

[anonymous-user]

daemon said:

And there we go - subjective view, that you're trying to extrapolate onto everyone else.

I'm not offended - just very bemused at your relentless diesel bashing and blinkeredness about the merits of them.

How so. I am expressing my opinion, people aren't likely to sell their cars because of it. The main reasoning I would wager is economy, it was mine. I guess that's why you have both...

daemon said:

And would the petrol equivalent have offered driver involvement?

The point being, there are very valid reasons why people buy expensive diesels and they have been repeated ad nauseam but arent being accepted by a minority. Yet, for everyday luxo barge transport you were very happy with one? So WHY is a modern luxo diesel buying the "wrong" engine, when you were perfectly happy with one in a luxo barge?

Of course not. I wouldn't have chosen either on that basis, as explained when the economy was important it made sense.

Why are you trying to turn this into an anti-diesel rant when it isn't?

daemon said:

It seems to be you trying to "make the rules" as to what other people should drive and suits their needs.

I'd suggest you go back and read the thread.

[AC43]

TurboHatchback said:

Deary me, 63 pages of pointless arguments which all boils down to "cos the empeegees innit" whether it makes sense or not. That's literally all there is to it.

Well it's that and the "diesels don't smoke or smell" part which is patently untrue as anyone with a nose, some taste buds and a set lungs in London can tell you.

I've also got eyes and when I look at the back bumper of my neighbour's silver CLS 320 CDI I can see plenty of soot there.

Maybe on part load on a motorway they are fine but in a city they definitely pump out plenty of soot.

[TurboHatchback]

daemon said:

TurboHatchback said:

Deary me, 63 pages of pointless arguments which all boils down to "cos the empeegees innit" whether it makes sense or not. That's literally all there is to it.

Not quite.

Most of these cars are leased or bought using a PCP deal. The "best" deals tend to be on the diesel variants of 6 series, X5's, S class mercs, etc.

And there is still the perception - rightly or wrongly - among buyers that diesels will be worth more / easier to sell than a big petrol engined variant.

That does seem to be changing though, which is good news.

Edited by daemon on Friday 9th October 10:38

True but that's still a side effect of "the empeegees innit" when you get right down to it.

[Monkeylegend]

yonex said:

daemon said:

And there we go - subjective view, that you're trying to extrapolate onto everyone else.

I'm not offended - just very bemused at your relentless diesel bashing and blinkeredness about the merits of them.

How so. I am expressing my opinion, people aren't likely to sell their cars because of it. The main reasoning I would wager is economy, it was mine. I guess that's why you have both...

daemon said:

And would the petrol equivalent have offered driver involvement?

The point being, there are very valid reasons why people buy expensive diesels and they have been repeated ad nauseam but arent being accepted by a minority. Yet, for everyday luxo barge transport you were very happy with one? So WHY is a modern luxo diesel buying the "wrong" engine, when you were perfectly happy with one in a luxo barge?

Of course not. I wouldn't have chosen either on that basis, as explained when the economy was important it made sense.

Why are you trying to turn this into an anti-diesel rant when it isn't?

daemon said:

It seems to be you trying to "make the rules" as to what other people should drive and suits their needs.

I'd suggest you go back and read the thread.

My reason for buying diesel over the last 15 years is it is the best car for it's intended purpose, ie mega miles cruising on motorways, economical, very reliable and longer service intervals.

At the time I bought my first diesel, I hated them for the same reasons as posters on here, but over time I quickly came to appreciate their merits to a point where I would find it difficult to not have one for my business. As I have now retired that is no longer relevant, but I intend to keep running diesel because I like it. And next year the VED drops to £140, so a winner all round

I have during my former years many weekend toys including TVR's, Westfields, Imprezas, Saabs, Triumphs, to name but a few, so like petrol and can compare their merits objectively.

Those type of cars for me are now far less relevant in my maturing years. Diesel in a big automatic car is ideal for wafting about, which is what I enjoy in this mad, frenetic world we live in today. One day you young studs will understand what us oldies are talking about

[heebeegeetee]

yonex said:

It's not, it's based upon ownership of a few diesel cars and driving a shed load of hire cars.

I'm not prejudiced I just take diesel for what it is, i.e. purely transport. Everyone is agreeing (in the main) with this.

So are you arguing with yourself then?

You listed the faults of diesels just a few posts back

yonex said:

• Slower
• Less fun to drive
• As, if not more polluting than petrol
• About to take a bit hit at the pumps
• Aren't as good as everyone makes out

Then it turns out you had a coupe of diesels yourself which seemed to suit the purposes they were bought for. So one has to wonder, given your list, why didn't you buy the petrol versions?

TurboHatchback said:

Deary me, 63 pages of pointless arguments which all boils down to "cos the empeegees innit" whether it makes sense or not. That's literally all there is to it.

I've just revisited the first page of this thread to just remind myself of what started the thread, and I see that the people who are perplexed at why people buy expensive diesels have got it all wrong - hence the thread. 63 pages in and you've still got it wrong. 63 pages of wrongness.

There has been 1,898 anti diesel threads on this site since I've been here, and you guys still get it all wrong.

I think those of us who buy dervs to suit a purpose just come on these threads to watch folk struggle with basic reasoning. It's just another facet of the car hobby if you like.

[TurboHatchback]

heebeegeetee said:

TurboHatchback said:

Deary me, 63 pages of pointless arguments which all boils down to "cos the empeegees innit" whether it makes sense or not. That's literally all there is to it.

I've just revisited the first page of this thread to just remind myself of what started the thread, and I see that the people who are perplexed at why people buy expensive diesels have got it all wrong - hence the thread. 63 pages in and you've still got it wrong. 63 pages of wrongness.

There has been 1,898 anti diesel threads on this site since I've been here, and you guys still get it all wrong.

I think those of us who buy dervs to suit a purpose just come on these threads to watch folk struggle with basic reasoning. It's just another facet of the car hobby if you like.

You have an opinion, they have an opinion. The reason the thread is now 64 pages of pointless circular arguments is the utter conviction of many (like yourself) that they are 'right' and others are 'wrong' and if you type it enough times people will change their minds and agree with you.

[Pan Pan Pan]

yonex said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Just as your prejudice is based on your personal preferences. Because you cant `see' what is coming out of an exhaust pipe does not mean it is not going to kill you. If you believe that, try sitting in a closed garage with a running petrol engine for an hour or two, and see how `well' you feel, (that is if you manage to come out of the garage at all)
Like it or not, with possibly the exception of some VW cars, diesels are legal for use on UK roads, even the older ones which have to pass the MOT for visible smoke.
You may have a prejudice against diesels, but they are legal, and short of starting a campaign to get them off the roads you will just have to live with them.
Even if new legislation is brought in by government on diesels this will only apply to new cars registered after that new legislation is put in place. they cannot make older cars comply, and if they did, that would mean thousands of classic cars which cannot comply with the latest emissions legislation would also have to be scrapped.
The existing ones will just carry on until they fail an MOT or go the way of all cars past their useful life.

How am I prejudiced, I buy cars based upon my needs? I drove an awful Mk4 Golf diesel and then a Volvo D5 when I was travelling 80 miles a day? Both of them chucked out visible smoke. I didn't ever enjoy a drive in either and the many hire VW hire cars I have used have all been tools to do a job. White goods, dull as dishwater. If I have any kind of actual prejudice it's towards VW

If the cost of fuel didn't matter at all very few of you would be driving a diesel car, all the arguments about more torque, almost sounding as good, etc, etc would be out of the window.

Oh and do some reading on NOx. Not to mention all the associated crap that renders a 10 year old diesel car a hit and miss used purchase.

As I have both diesel and petrol cars, I have no axe to grind over either type of fuel.
It is not even the cost of fuel which is an issue, as my petrol car will only do around 18 to 20 mpg on a good day.
Both cars are much much better than the other in terms of what I use /need them for.
I have a diesel car for the single tank range it gives me, no petrol car will get anywhere near it. Nor do I care about all the ecomentalist guff spouted about diesels, or if some out there don't like the smell.
I drive and live around diesels and I have no problem whatsoever with the smell or the emissions, and my lungs are in first class condition, so sorry, all the b*llox about pollution from diesels is just b*llox in my view.
I have no problem with the smell of tobacco smoke. I don't smoke myself, but if some want to smoke, that is entirely their business, provided they are doing it in accordance with the laws on smoking.
As diesels are legal, and because they wouldn't pass an MOT if they were not. Why should anyone be so arrogant as to recommend they are taken off the roads just because they don't use, or like them, or more petty still, because they don't like the smell.
Here`s a little tip, if you don't like diesels, or they don't do what `you' want from a car, then don't buy one. If you don't like the smell, then don't stay behind one. Shouldn't be too difficult to overtake, if they are as bad on performance compared to petrol, as some here want to make out.
If people don't like diesels that is absolutely fine, but they should not try to impose their narrow minded, only my way is right, my car only emits fairy dust, ignorant views on those that do need what a diesel car, and a diesel car only can provide.
Remember this site is called Piston heads, not Petrol heads.

[anonymous-user]

heebeegeetee said:

Then it turns out you had a coupe of diesels yourself which seemed to suit the purposes they were bought for. So one has to wonder, given your list, why didn't you buy the petrol versions?

Are the dots that difficult to join up?

• Economy
• 80 mile round trip

heebeegeetee said:

There has been 1,898 anti diesel threads on this site since I've been here, and you guys still get it all wrong.

How can anyone who would buy a diesel to suit their needs be 'anti-diesel', I think the word you're looking for is 'realistic'.

[ORD]

Pan Pan Pan said:

As I have both diesel and petrol cars, I have no axe to grind over either type of fuel.
It is not even the cost of fuel which is an issue, as my petrol car will only do around 18 to 20 mpg on a good day.
Both cars are much much better than the other in terms of what I use /need them for.
I have a diesel car for the single tank range it gives me, no petrol car will get anywhere near it. Nor do I care about all the ecomentalist guff spouted about diesels, or if some out there don't like the smell.
I drive and live around diesels and I have no problem whatsoever with the smell or the emissions, and my lungs are in first class condition, so sorry, all the b*llox about pollution from diesels is just b*llox in my view.
I have no problem with the smell of tobacco smoke. I don't smoke myself, but if some want to smoke, that is entirely their business, provided they are doing it in accordance with the laws on smoking.
As diesels are legal, and because they wouldn't pass an MOT if they were not. Why should anyone be so arrogant as to recommend they are taken off the roads just because they don't use, or like them, or more petty still, because they don't like the smell.
Here`s a little tip, if you don't like diesels, or they don't do what `you' want from a car, then don't buy one. If you don't like the smell, then don't stay behind one. Shouldn't be too difficult to overtake, if they are as bad on performance compared to petrol, as some here want to make out.
If people don't like diesels that is absolutely fine, but they should not try to impose their narrow minded, only my way is right, my car only emits fairy dust, ignorant views on those that do need what a diesel car, and a diesel car only can provide.
Remember this site is called Piston heads, not Petrol heads.

Do you suggest that I stop working in Central London? I cannot think of another way to avoid standing near diesel cars quite a lot.

[anonymous-user]

Pan Pan Pan said:

so sorry, all the b*llox about pollution from diesels is just b*llox in my view.

Of course it is. Ever visited London have we?

Pan Pan Pan said:

Remember this site is called Piston heads, not Petrol heads.

Go diesel.

[Monkeylegend]

ORD said:

Do you suggest that I stop working in Central London? I cannot think of another way to avoid standing near diesel cars quite a lot.

You could always move to Sark, problem is they still have the internet there so we would still have to put up with your drivel

[ORD]

Monkeylegend said:

You could always move to Sark, problem is they still have the internet there so we would still have to put up with your drivel

You could always just stop defending the indefensible and become a growed up.

[Pan Pan Pan]

ORD said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

As I have both diesel and petrol cars, I have no axe to grind over either type of fuel.
It is not even the cost of fuel which is an issue, as my petrol car will only do around 18 to 20 mpg on a good day.
Both cars are much much better than the other in terms of what I use /need them for.
I have a diesel car for the single tank range it gives me, no petrol car will get anywhere near it. Nor do I care about all the ecomentalist guff spouted about diesels, or if some out there don't like the smell.
I drive and live around diesels and I have no problem whatsoever with the smell or the emissions, and my lungs are in first class condition, so sorry, all the b*llox about pollution from diesels is just b*llox in my view.
I have no problem with the smell of tobacco smoke. I don't smoke myself, but if some want to smoke, that is entirely their business, provided they are doing it in accordance with the laws on smoking.
As diesels are legal, and because they wouldn't pass an MOT if they were not. Why should anyone be so arrogant as to recommend they are taken off the roads just because they don't use, or like them, or more petty still, because they don't like the smell.
Here`s a little tip, if you don't like diesels, or they don't do what `you' want from a car, then don't buy one. If you don't like the smell, then don't stay behind one. Shouldn't be too difficult to overtake, if they are as bad on performance compared to petrol, as some here want to make out.
If people don't like diesels that is absolutely fine, but they should not try to impose their narrow minded, only my way is right, my car only emits fairy dust, ignorant views on those that do need what a diesel car, and a diesel car only can provide.
Remember this site is called Piston heads, not Petrol heads.

Do you suggest that I stop working in Central London? I cannot think of another way to avoid standing near diesel cars quite a lot.

There`s your problem. London is a polluted sh*thole. it is now, it always was, and it always will be (although many will say that air quality in London is actually improving compared to years ago)
If you have to jump into the cesspit that is London, or any other large city every day for your job, it is likely you will come out of it smelling of sh*t.
I worked for years in London many years ago before diesel cars had even been introduced, and came out every day with a bunged up nose, a dirty collar and a head ache.
Even when flying North of London on a gin clear day long before diesel cars were in existence, all one could see of London, was a bubble of filth, with some buildings embedded in it, and worse still, the bubble of filth was spreading itself down wind over neighboring counties. So thanks for contributing to the filth.
Get the concentration of people, buses, taxis, cars, trains, planes, businesses, factories, shops, away from large cities and they could be quite pleasant, but if this cannot be done then cities like London, will remain exactly what they are now, filthy, polluted and polluting Sh*tholes.

[ORD]

Pan Pan Pan said:

There`s your problem. London is a polluted sh*thole. it is now, it always was, and it always will be (although many will say that air quality in London is actually improving compared to years ago)
If you have to jump into the cesspit that is London, or any other large city every day for your job, it is likely you will come out of it smelling of sh*t.
I worked for years in London many years ago before diesel cars had even been introduced, and came out every day with a bunged up nose, a dirty collar and a head ache.
Even when flying North of London on a gin clear day long before diesel cars were in existence, all one could see of London, was a bubble of filth, with some buildings embedded in it, and worse still, the bubble of filth was spreading itself down wind over neighboring counties. So thanks for contributing to the filth.
Get the concentration of people, buses, taxis, cars, trains, planes, businesses, factories, shops, away from large cities and they could be quite pleasant, but if this cannot be done then cities like London, will remain exactly what they are now, filthy, polluted and polluting Sh*tholes.

If you insult Londoners for contributing to pollution, you should probably balance it out by showing some gratitude to those who work in London for paying for all of the public services that people outside London use but could not possibly afford without London's help.

[Pan Pan Pan]

ORD said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

There`s your problem. London is a polluted sh*thole. it is now, it always was, and it always will be (although many will say that air quality in London is actually improving compared to years ago)
If you have to jump into the cesspit that is London, or any other large city every day for your job, it is likely you will come out of it smelling of sh*t.
I worked for years in London many years ago before diesel cars had even been introduced, and came out every day with a bunged up nose, a dirty collar and a head ache.
Even when flying North of London on a gin clear day long before diesel cars were in existence, all one could see of London, was a bubble of filth, with some buildings embedded in it, and worse still, the bubble of filth was spreading itself down wind over neighboring counties. So thanks for contributing to the filth.
Get the concentration of people, buses, taxis, cars, trains, planes, businesses, factories, shops, away from large cities and they could be quite pleasant, but if this cannot be done then cities like London, will remain exactly what they are now, filthy, polluted and polluting Sh*tholes.

If you insult Londoners for contributing to pollution, you should probably balance it out by showing some gratitude to those who work in London for paying for all of the public services that people outside London use but could not possibly afford without London's help.

I was born in London, and worked there for years, and blessed the day I got out of there.
No need to go in there these days what with the modern communication systems most business now use, so why do you do it?
Do you like working in a polluted place? what are you going to do about all the nasty buses, trains, taxis, that most working in cities have to use to get about inside it?
Do you want those taken away too? And from your last comment, it seems you are happy to use the power that out of city power stations provide, even to power EVs for example) but you have no problem with leaving the sh*t this produces in other peoples living and work places, Not to mention the down wind pollution that pours out of major cities like London every day (except when the wind is not blowing, then it just stays in the place which generated it)

[anonymous-user]

heebeegeetee said:

There has been 1,898 anti diesel threads on this site since I've been here, and you guys still get it all wrong.

I think you might be ill. Do you really keep a count?

[AC43]

Pan Pan Pan said:

I drive and live around diesels and I have no problem whatsoever with the smell or the emissions, and my lungs are in first class condition, so sorry, all the b*llox about pollution from diesels is just b*llox in my view.

Thanks for the kind words :-)

[Monkeylegend]

ORD said:

Monkeylegend said:

You could always move to Sark, problem is they still have the internet there so we would still have to put up with your drivel

You could always just stop defending the indefensible and become a growed up.

Nothing to defend, I see the merits of both, I have both. I find this thread and the anti diesel brigade, you included, amusing, and it gives me a few minutes of light hearted entertainment in my growed up retirement.

I have this vision of you rich guys with their Porches and other exotica in London, choking away on their iphones, cursing us poor people who have no option but to drive diesel because we can't afford to run a petrol car. It gives me a smug satisfaction, wrong I know, but there you go

[Monkeylegend]

yonex said:

Go diesel.

That's more like it, I knew you would come round to our way of thinking in the end.