Why are people buying expensive diesels?

[austinsmirk]

do all these owners of expensive petrol cars drive around with the windows down and no radio on ?

Its just in my clattery devil fueled heap of diesel junk, I'm struggling to hear the engine with Planet Rock turned up to number 11 and the wife and two children carrying on.

I've said this before, if I could buy a car that ran cheaply on the tears of factory farmed kittens, I would. To update this, if I could run a car on pulped dogs, or pulped benefits claimants, I would. I care not for the fuel, I care for its cost. I am not living the dream and being filled full of automotive passion sat in traffic, chugging around or pondering up the motorway. On a lovely Yorkshire A or B road, when its quiet, thats somewhat different.

Hands down, big diesel cars are significantly more efficient than anything petrol.

I also know no-one who has ever had this mysterious DPF failure: and everyone I seem to know drives a diesel. Why wouldn't you, unless its a sports car ?


Its about time this thread was concluded with the amazing conclusion that we all like different things in life. Staggering eh ?

[beanbag]

In fairness my parents had a DPF failure on their A4 2.0TDI, but the reasons were simple.

They only ever used the car for short journeys so it never had the chance to regenerate and eventually clogged up.

Anyway, choosing a diesel is simple:

If you commute more than 20 miles a day each way, and like to save a bit of cash and want something reasonably quick, buy a good diesel.

If you commute less than 20 miles a day, or tend to do shorter more sporadic trips, get a petrol.

Or, if you like to call yourself a "petrolhead", rev your car constantly over 6000 rpm, not give a st about money, and claim you have a sports car when in fact it's probably just a BMW 320i or similar, believe you drive like Hamilton, you hate caravans, and you like to berate all diesel drivers and claim their cars are a heap of st, then a petrol is definitely for you.

[anonymous-user]

austinsmirk said:

do all these owners of expensive petrol cars drive around with the windows down and no radio on ?

Its just in my clattery devil fueled heap of diesel junk, I'm struggling to hear the engine with Planet Rock turned up to number 11 and the wife and two children carrying on.

I've said this before, if I could buy a car that ran cheaply on the tears of factory farmed kittens, I would. To update this, if I could run a car on pulped dogs, or pulped benefits claimants, I would. I care not for the fuel, I care for its cost. I am not living the dream and being filled full of automotive passion sat in traffic, chugging around or pondering up the motorway. On a lovely Yorkshire A or B road, when its quiet, thats somewhat different.

Hands down, big diesel cars are significantly more efficient than anything petrol.

I also know no-one who has ever had this mysterious DPF failure: and everyone I seem to know drives a diesel. Why wouldn't you, unless its a sports car ?

Its about time this thread was concluded with the amazing conclusion that we all like different things in life. Staggering eh ?

I do and have spent time and money making sure it sounds better

Having just returned from a 1200 mile jaunt to Ireland averaging 25 mpg. I don't think that's bad at all and there is no diesel that I can think of that would have been as much fun or provided the same level of amusement? Previously I ran a Volvo S60 diesel for 120,000 miles, none of them were really 'fun'. It averaged 42mpg and given the fact it cost £3K when purchased and nothing really went wrong is good, actually very good. But it was dull as dishwater albeit white goods with a nice stereo.

People who drive diesels seem very touchy about their choices. A diesel does sound like a bag of st, they don't rev like a decent petrol engine and have narrow powerbands. The fuel stinks and you have to stand in pools of the stuff at filling stations, it's disgusting. These are the facts. Failures with modern diesels, when they happen are expensive and it'll only get worse as more power is squeezed from smaller capacities with ever tightening emissions legislation.

The antidote to this is the recent thread on the MR2 with the PD engine, or that Westy build, both shining examples of thinking outside the box.

If you want one, buy one, it's your money and when you ultimately meet your maker only you will be able to look back over your time and not feel you have let motoring down

[Baryonyx]

beanbag said:

It's funny how many PH'ers forget the rest of the world

Diesel is massively cheaper on the continent and taxes are far lower on these cars so it does make economical sense. On top of that, there are many people like myself who commute 120 miles per day so it's a no brainer owning a good diesel. I paid £25k for my diesel and it'll still deliver 45mpg even when gunning it down the motorway at undisclosed speeds. Why on earth would I want a petrol?

Because you might love cars?

Cost is the major factor. If you could afford to do the miles you do in a petrol, I'm sure you would. Sublimely smooth V8 or grumbling diesel clatter and 'run out of puff' gearing? Don't tell me you'd opt for the latter if you could afford not. There's nothing wrong with that. I'm going to buy a hybrid car next year because my Jag is getting old and 21mpg for a smooth, swift ride isn't a good payoff for me anymore (admittedly getting on my Daytona T595 with it's 955cc engine gives more of a performance hit than any car I've ever tried). I don't fancy the complexity and clatter of diesels personally, and my commute is 12 miles either way so hardly long enough to warm a diesel engine through. If I could afford it, I'd buy an XJR to replace my XJ8, but I can't and so I'm not going to piss money up the wall doing so. Diesel is there popular because the majority don't care about cars and just want whatever they think will work out cheapest.

If cost were not an issue, I can't think of many situations where I'd want a diesel, save for my aforementioned work van and other haulage type duties where you're frequently lugging heavy cargo from standstill.

[Sump]

p1stonhead said:

Sump said:

p1stonhead said:

marmitemania said:

I keep coming back to this same statement. 'Why do we not have diesel Bentley's and Rolls Royce's' ? I tell you why because no one would buy them. And don't say they are in a different league, we have diesel porsche's and Jaguar's that a not so much cheaper. DIE Diesel DIE !!!!!

I could afford to commute in an m5 if I wanted but I choose not to as it would be a waste of money.

Edited by p1stonhead on Tuesday 1st September 14:28

Well no you can't afford it can you, as you haven't got enough money to be able to waste....

Found the moron.

Not wanting to do something is not the same as not being able to. Are you really that stupid to think otherwise?

That's just plain delusion.

So just to confirm, if you had £612m in the bank you would still commute in your diesel stbox to save some fuel money

Stop trying to convince yourself you want to be driving that car.

[Ares]

yonex said:

I do and have spent time and money making sure it sounds better

Having just returned from a 1200 mile jaunt to Ireland averaging 25 mpg. I don't think that's bad at all and there is no diesel that I can think of that would have been as much fun or provided the same level of amusement? Previously I ran a Volvo S60 diesel for 120,000 miles, none of them were really 'fun'. It averaged 42mpg and given the fact it cost £3K when purchased and nothing really went wrong is good, actually very good. But it was dull as dishwater albeit white goods with a nice stereo.

People who drive diesels seem very touchy about their choices. A diesel does sound like a bag of st, they don't rev like a decent petrol engine and have narrow powerbands. The fuel stinks and you have to stand in pools of the stuff at filling stations, it's disgusting. These are the facts.

Only as touchy as those who eschew diesel get about doing so

Diesels do sound like st. A decent 6cyl oil burner sounds better than most 3/4-cyl petrol, but like for like, it is a major downside....but the only real downside. revs are a misnomer. I've had cars that rev to 15,000rpm. Others than rev'd to 9,000. They are hard work for 99% of the time. When you get 300bhp+ without having to screw the engine above 7k, why is that automatically a bad thing? Ok, that 1% of use when you are on a moorland road, and you want to keep the engine above 7k, to max the power and feel like a racedriver....great. But most of the time, having most of the engines power permanently on top is a good thing. Engine flexibility is a huge plus.....and the narrow power band is another misnomer as well. Most decent cars have a power band of c2000-2500 rpm. Whether than is 2000-4500 or 4000 to 6500, the band is the same size.

....and fuel stinks of any variety, and with the crap pumps than stations use, petrol is equally likely to spill.

yonex said:

If you want one, buy one, it's your money and when you ultimately meet your maker only you will be able to look back over your time and not feel you have let motoring down

Thats fine. I don't feel I have let motoring down.


PS - what was the 1200mile/25mpg car?

[andrewparker]

beanbag said:

It's funny how many PH'ers forget the rest of the world

Or indeed 99% of the population who couldn't really care what a car sounds like and who wouldn't have a clue what enjoying an engine meant. This is the person who walks into their VW dealer with £25k to spend on a car and is presented with either a 1.4 litre petrol Golf or a 2.0 litre diesel Golf. One does 68.9mpg, the other 58.9mpg. Is that person analysing the throttle response, whether is revs to 7000rpm, of whether they find the noise when they turn the key slightly irritating? Nope, they're just thinking either will be a nice car, and one is cheaper to run.

[Baryonyx]

Sump said:

Stop trying to convince yourself you want to be driving that car.

This. Just because you can afford a 535d doesn't mean cost isn't a factor. Being able to afford and run and 'decent' diesel is one thing, being able to make the sums add up in the top spec petrol is another, and anyone with an interest in cars would take the M5 if they could. There are some really good diesel cars around, there is no doubt. I laid many of my prejudices against diesel to rest when I had a go in a 123d and found it to be usefully quick, frugal and frankly, pretty bearable. But the owner would freely admit he'd have an M3 if he could afford it.

There is no shame in being able to afford a nice diesel and not a nice petrol. Consider that you've done well enough to get that far, but don't try and kid me you absolutely prefer it unless you tow a speedboat to work every day.

[beanbag]

yonex said:

austinsmirk said:

do all these owners of expensive petrol cars drive around with the windows down and no radio on ?

Its just in my clattery devil fueled heap of diesel junk, I'm struggling to hear the engine with Planet Rock turned up to number 11 and the wife and two children carrying on.

I've said this before, if I could buy a car that ran cheaply on the tears of factory farmed kittens, I would. To update this, if I could run a car on pulped dogs, or pulped benefits claimants, I would. I care not for the fuel, I care for its cost. I am not living the dream and being filled full of automotive passion sat in traffic, chugging around or pondering up the motorway. On a lovely Yorkshire A or B road, when its quiet, thats somewhat different.

Hands down, big diesel cars are significantly more efficient than anything petrol.

I also know no-one who has ever had this mysterious DPF failure: and everyone I seem to know drives a diesel. Why wouldn't you, unless its a sports car ?

Its about time this thread was concluded with the amazing conclusion that we all like different things in life. Staggering eh ?

I do and have spent time and money making sure it sounds better

Having just returned from a 1200 mile jaunt to Ireland averaging 25 mpg. I don't think that's bad at all and there is no diesel that I can think of that would have been as much fun or provided the same level of amusement? Previously I ran a Volvo S60 diesel for 120,000 miles, none of them were really 'fun'. It averaged 42mpg and given the fact it cost £3K when purchased and nothing really went wrong is good, actually very good. But it was dull as dishwater albeit white goods with a nice stereo.

People who drive diesels seem very touchy about their choices. A diesel does sound like a bag of st, they don't rev like a decent petrol engine and have narrow powerbands. The fuel stinks and you have to stand in pools of the stuff at filling stations, it's disgusting. These are the facts. Failures with modern diesels, when they happen are expensive and it'll only get worse as more power is squeezed from smaller capacities with ever tightening emissions legislation.

The antidote to this is the recent thread on the MR2 with the PD engine, or that Westy build, both shining examples of thinking outside the box.

If you want one, buy one, it's your money and when you ultimately meet your maker only you will be able to look back over your time and not feel you have let motoring down

People get touchy because "petrolheads" like yourself talk total nonsense about something which is normally the pride and joy of that person.

You ran an old banger diesel years ago so you claim to know what modern diesels are like.

I drive a 2013 F31 320d. It has a twin-turbo 2 litre diesel and is currently tuned to 208bhp with a ZF-8 sport transmission. Your example of a clapped up S60 is just ridiculous. It was as dull as st new as it is today and bears no resemblance to a decent modern diesel.

Your power-band comments are also nonsense and both you and I stand in the same puddles of diesel when we fill up our cars. Unless something changed recently and "petrolheads" are offered a VIP fill-up experience around the corner to the rest of us peasants.



And finally your claim of reliability is also nonsense. I ran my last diesel (116d), for 145,000km from new and the only issue I had was.......nothing.

Keep any car regularly maintained with good quality fluids and they'll just run.

When cars fail, it's usually down to poor maintenance on the part of the owner.

In a nutshell, your comments are typical of an ignorant "petrolhead" believing they know all because they've driven a diesel heap of st and that reflects all diesel cars on the road. That's why we get touchy about it.

[anonymous-user]

beanbag said:

yonex said:

austinsmirk said:

do all these owners of expensive petrol cars drive around with the windows down and no radio on ?

Its just in my clattery devil fueled heap of diesel junk, I'm struggling to hear the engine with Planet Rock turned up to number 11 and the wife and two children carrying on.

I've said this before, if I could buy a car that ran cheaply on the tears of factory farmed kittens, I would. To update this, if I could run a car on pulped dogs, or pulped benefits claimants, I would. I care not for the fuel, I care for its cost. I am not living the dream and being filled full of automotive passion sat in traffic, chugging around or pondering up the motorway. On a lovely Yorkshire A or B road, when its quiet, thats somewhat different.

Hands down, big diesel cars are significantly more efficient than anything petrol.

I also know no-one who has ever had this mysterious DPF failure: and everyone I seem to know drives a diesel. Why wouldn't you, unless its a sports car ?

Its about time this thread was concluded with the amazing conclusion that we all like different things in life. Staggering eh ?

I do and have spent time and money making sure it sounds better

Having just returned from a 1200 mile jaunt to Ireland averaging 25 mpg. I don't think that's bad at all and there is no diesel that I can think of that would have been as much fun or provided the same level of amusement? Previously I ran a Volvo S60 diesel for 120,000 miles, none of them were really 'fun'. It averaged 42mpg and given the fact it cost £3K when purchased and nothing really went wrong is good, actually very good. But it was dull as dishwater albeit white goods with a nice stereo.

People who drive diesels seem very touchy about their choices. A diesel does sound like a bag of st, they don't rev like a decent petrol engine and have narrow powerbands. The fuel stinks and you have to stand in pools of the stuff at filling stations, it's disgusting. These are the facts. Failures with modern diesels, when they happen are expensive and it'll only get worse as more power is squeezed from smaller capacities with ever tightening emissions legislation.

The antidote to this is the recent thread on the MR2 with the PD engine, or that Westy build, both shining examples of thinking outside the box.

If you want one, buy one, it's your money and when you ultimately meet your maker only you will be able to look back over your time and not feel you have let motoring down

People get touchy because "petrolheads" like yourself talk total nonsense about something which is normally the pride and joy of that person.

You ran an old banger diesel years ago so you claim to know what modern diesels are like.

I drive a 2013 F31 320d. It has a twin-turbo 2 litre diesel and is currently tuned to 208bhp with a ZF-8 sport transmission. Your example of a clapped up S60 is just ridiculous. It was as dull as st new as it is today and bears no resemblance to a decent modern diesel.

Your power-band comments are also nonsense and both you and I stand in the same puddles of diesel when we fill up our cars. Unless something changed recently and "petrolheads" are offered a VIP fill-up experience around the corner to the rest of us peasants.



And finally your claim of reliability is also nonsense. I ran my last diesel (116d), for 145,000km from new and the only issue I had was.......nothing.

Keep any car regularly maintained with good quality fluids and they'll just run.

When cars fail, it's usually down to poor maintenance on the part of the owner.

In a nutshell, your comments are typical of an ignorant "petrolhead" believing they know all because they've driven a diesel heap of st and that reflects all diesel cars on the road. That's why we get touchy about it.

[beanbag]

St John Smythe said:

Yeah I know....touchy, but the ignorance of some is staggering. You might as well say you've driven a Trabant and say all petrols are a heap of st. It just gets tiring seeing the same bullst on here, over and over.

[Ares]

St John Smythe said:

Genuine coffee on the screen moment. Very funny.

[anonymous-user]

Ares said:

St John Smythe said:

Genuine coffee on the screen moment. Very funny.

[SlimRick]

Admittedly, big petrols are awesome, but this is what appealed to me:

• Power: 271bhp
• Torque: 600Nm
• 0-62mph: 5.9 seconds
• Top speed: 155mph
• Economy: 42mpg

[BRR]

I have Diesel for doing all the mundane stuff like the commute (80 miles per day), trips to the tip etc, basically tasks that aren't any fun regardless of what car i'd be in so i may aswell do those tasks as cheaply as possible so i can spend the money saved on things i do enjoy like thrashing a decent V8 petrol around the Scottish highlands or buying rare William Shatner merchandise. Being as i have diesel for the sole purpose of it being cheap, i ensure my Diesel car is also cheap

I know that Diesels can have impressive performance figures, but it's no fun extracting that performance. I've driven some quick-ish diesels and whilst the acceleration down a slip road or equivalent is decent there's no fun to be had in taking the car for a proper drive

[p1stonhead]

Sump said:

p1stonhead said:

Sump said:

p1stonhead said:

marmitemania said:

I keep coming back to this same statement. 'Why do we not have diesel Bentley's and Rolls Royce's' ? I tell you why because no one would buy them. And don't say they are in a different league, we have diesel porsche's and Jaguar's that a not so much cheaper. DIE Diesel DIE !!!!!

I could afford to commute in an m5 if I wanted but I choose not to as it would be a waste of money.

Edited by p1stonhead on Tuesday 1st September 14:28

Well no you can't afford it can you, as you haven't got enough money to be able to waste....

Found the moron.

Not wanting to do something is not the same as not being able to. Are you really that stupid to think otherwise?

That's just plain delusion.

So just to confirm, if you had £612m in the bank you would still commute in your diesel stbox to save some fuel money

Stop trying to convince yourself you want to be driving that car.

My commute is 20 miles along the most congested part of the M25. I live and work about 2 miles from each junction I go between. I dont think I have crossed 70mph for more than 2% of the journeys I have ever done.

This is my commute for my sins;



An M5 would be no more enjoyable than a 520d so no, I wouldnt change for the hell of it. There is still such a thing as wasting money for no benefit and I have a fun petrol weekend car. Im not in petrol head mode at 6am or 6pm trundling along at 10mph. In fact I might be more annoyed being in an M5 and still doing the same speed.

Being half a billionaire isnt a valid argument for anything. In the real world, im not a millionaire but yet could comfortably afford the fuel. I choose not to as there is ZERO benefit. The idle noise of an M5 while sitting in traffic wouldnt make me happy enough to spend £500 a month in fuel rather than £150. My old boss is a multi millionaire and has a similar commute through traffic filled hell. He drove a diesel Panamera.

Just had a peek in your garage and you are obviously very well off. Fair play to you but surely you didnt get there by literally wasting money for the sake of it?

Do you burn expensive books in a log burner to keep warm at home instead of having a normal gas boiler? If you dont (even though it has no benefit over gas) you clearly cant afford to? No - its a pointless waste of money.

Edited by p1stonhead on Wednesday 2nd September 14:35

[hornetrider]

beanbag said:

Yeah I know....touchy, but the ignorance of some is staggering. You might as well say you've driven a Trabant and say all petrols are a heap of st. It just gets tiring seeing the same bullst on here, over and over.

I test drove an F30 335D. Sounded like st like all diesels do, didn't like it. Stuck with my V8.

[hornetrider]

p1stonhead said:

This is my commute for my sins;

Get a bike licence.

HTH.

[p1stonhead]

hornetrider said:

beanbag said:

Yeah I know....touchy, but the ignorance of some is staggering. You might as well say you've driven a Trabant and say all petrols are a heap of st. It just gets tiring seeing the same bullst on here, over and over.

I test drove an F30 335D. Sounded like st like all diesels do, didn't like it. Stuck with my V8.

Yeah but you live in South Wales so obviously make incredibly poor choices anyway. Personally Id rather cut my bks off.

See how an opinion works?

[hornetrider]

Wow