Why are people buying expensive diesels?
Discussion
Sump said:
That's just plain delusion.
So just to confirm, if you had £612m in the bank you would still commute in your diesel s
tbox to save some fuel money 
Stop trying to convince yourself you want to be driving that car.
To be honest if you had £612m I don't think you'd be commuting anywhere and if you did it would probably be by helicopter.So just to confirm, if you had £612m in the bank you would still commute in your diesel s
tbox to save some fuel money Stop trying to convince yourself you want to be driving that car.
And don't even get me started on aviation fuel as that stuff is for total w
kers.got shot of both of my diesels -
e60 525d - which had a dpf failure, turbo failure, injector failure, egr valve clogged, HPFP failure etc. cost me on average £300 per month in maintenance alone
Volvo XC90 - which had a full set of inlet swirl flaps replaced after they refused to play ball anymore - warranty covered that, would have cost about £1500
Gone back to a petrol car now, with a nice V6 in it, no need to wear gloves when filling it and a sweet engine noise, plus it doesnt sound like a taxi at idle and it revs very nicely.
e60 525d - which had a dpf failure, turbo failure, injector failure, egr valve clogged, HPFP failure etc. cost me on average £300 per month in maintenance alone
Volvo XC90 - which had a full set of inlet swirl flaps replaced after they refused to play ball anymore - warranty covered that, would have cost about £1500
Gone back to a petrol car now, with a nice V6 in it, no need to wear gloves when filling it and a sweet engine noise, plus it doesnt sound like a taxi at idle and it revs very nicely.
p1stonhead said:
hornetrider said:
Wow 
Wasnt actually serious I love Wales. Was just making a (stupid) point!
Sump said:
That's just plain delusion.
So just to confirm, if you had £612m in the bank you would still commute in your diesel stbox to save some fuel money
Stop trying to convince yourself you want to be driving that car.
This is the key point. Driving a diesel is fine, but it's a financial decision borne of necessity. Any points used to justify them are all cost based. Nothing wrong with that, but diesel drivers - don't delude yourselves that they are anything but unpleasant to sit behind So just to confirm, if you had £612m in the bank you would still commute in your diesel s
tbox to save some fuel money Stop trying to convince yourself you want to be driving that car.
beanbag said:
People get touchy because "petrolheads" like yourself talk total nonsense about something which is normally the pride and joy of that person.
You ran an old banger diesel years ago so you claim to know what modern diesels are like.
I drive a 2013 F31 320d. It has a twin-turbo 2 litre diesel and is currently tuned to 208bhp with a ZF-8 sport transmission. Your example of a clapped up S60 is just ridiculous. It was as dull as st new as it is today and bears no resemblance to a decent modern diesel.
Your power-band comments are also nonsense and both you and I stand in the same puddles of diesel when we fill up our cars. Unless something changed recently and "petrolheads" are offered a VIP fill-up experience around the corner to the rest of us peasants.
And finally your claim of reliability is also nonsense. I ran my last diesel (116d), for 145,000km from new and the only issue I had was.......nothing.
Keep any car regularly maintained with good quality fluids and they'll just run.
When cars fail, it's usually down to poor maintenance on the part of the owner.
In a nutshell, your comments are typical of an ignorant "petrolhead" believing they know all because they've driven a diesel heap of st and that reflects all diesel cars on the road. That's why we get touchy about it.
Yes, the Volvo, God love it, was a barge..but a good barge. It didn't break and I think I praised it and also mentioned I'd buy another one should I need to cover longer mileages..but let's skip that and the many company cars (all diesel) and more rental cars (mostly diesel) and all focus on you getting your little rant out You ran an old banger diesel years ago so you claim to know what modern diesels are like.
I drive a 2013 F31 320d. It has a twin-turbo 2 litre diesel and is currently tuned to 208bhp with a ZF-8 sport transmission. Your example of a clapped up S60 is just ridiculous. It was as dull as s
t new as it is today and bears no resemblance to a decent modern diesel.Your power-band comments are also nonsense and both you and I stand in the same puddles of diesel when we fill up our cars. Unless something changed recently and "petrolheads" are offered a VIP fill-up experience around the corner to the rest of us peasants.
And finally your claim of reliability is also nonsense. I ran my last diesel (116d), for 145,000km from new and the only issue I had was.......nothing.
Keep any car regularly maintained with good quality fluids and they'll just run.
When cars fail, it's usually down to poor maintenance on the part of the owner.
In a nutshell, your comments are typical of an ignorant "petrolhead" believing they know all because they've driven a diesel heap of s
t and that reflects all diesel cars on the road. That's why we get touchy about it.The only person who is ignorant is you, more to the point you feel it necessary to defend your car choice so strongly whilst spitting your afternoon tea at the keyboard. As for an automatic 320d, yes, motoring nirvana. I take it that the car is your pride and joy and not a company car? Lastly, I don't know where you fill up but if you spend any time at all on the clapped out motorway infrastructure in the UK and the sweaty armpit service stations I am sure you will have experienced the environment I described.
When you are looking to pick an argument it's best to find someone who isn't agreeing with you, otherwise it makes you look a bit daft.
yonex said:
People buy expensive diesels because;
1. That's what they want.
2. That's the best option on the company car list
3. That's what they want.
1. That's what they want.
2. That's the best option on the company car list
3. That's what they want.
yonex said:
beanbag said:
People get touchy because "petrolheads" like yourself talk total nonsense about something which is normally the pride and joy of that person.
You ran an old banger diesel years ago so you claim to know what modern diesels are like.
I drive a 2013 F31 320d. It has a twin-turbo 2 litre diesel and is currently tuned to 208bhp with a ZF-8 sport transmission. Your example of a clapped up S60 is just ridiculous. It was as dull as st new as it is today and bears no resemblance to a decent modern diesel.
Your power-band comments are also nonsense and both you and I stand in the same puddles of diesel when we fill up our cars. Unless something changed recently and "petrolheads" are offered a VIP fill-up experience around the corner to the rest of us peasants.
And finally your claim of reliability is also nonsense. I ran my last diesel (116d), for 145,000km from new and the only issue I had was.......nothing.
Keep any car regularly maintained with good quality fluids and they'll just run.
When cars fail, it's usually down to poor maintenance on the part of the owner.
In a nutshell, your comments are typical of an ignorant "petrolhead" believing they know all because they've driven a diesel heap of st and that reflects all diesel cars on the road. That's why we get touchy about it.
Yes, the Volvo, God love it, was a barge..but a good barge. It didn't break and I think I praised it and also mentioned I'd buy another one should I need to cover longer mileages..but let's skip that and the many company cars (all diesel) and more rental cars (mostly diesel) and all focus on you getting your little rant out You ran an old banger diesel years ago so you claim to know what modern diesels are like.
I drive a 2013 F31 320d. It has a twin-turbo 2 litre diesel and is currently tuned to 208bhp with a ZF-8 sport transmission. Your example of a clapped up S60 is just ridiculous. It was as dull as s
t new as it is today and bears no resemblance to a decent modern diesel.Your power-band comments are also nonsense and both you and I stand in the same puddles of diesel when we fill up our cars. Unless something changed recently and "petrolheads" are offered a VIP fill-up experience around the corner to the rest of us peasants.
And finally your claim of reliability is also nonsense. I ran my last diesel (116d), for 145,000km from new and the only issue I had was.......nothing.
Keep any car regularly maintained with good quality fluids and they'll just run.
When cars fail, it's usually down to poor maintenance on the part of the owner.
In a nutshell, your comments are typical of an ignorant "petrolhead" believing they know all because they've driven a diesel heap of s
t and that reflects all diesel cars on the road. That's why we get touchy about it.The only person who is ignorant is you, more to the point you feel it necessary to defend your car choice so strongly whilst spitting your afternoon tea at the keyboard. As for an automatic 320d, yes, motoring nirvana. I take it that the car is your pride and joy and not a company car? Lastly, I don't know where you fill up but if you spend any time at all on the clapped out motorway infrastructure in the UK and the sweaty armpit service stations I am sure you will have experienced the environment I described.
When you are looking to pick an argument it's best to find someone who isn't agreeing with you, otherwise it makes you look a bit daft.
yonex said:
People buy expensive diesels because;
1. That's what they want.
2. That's the best option on the company car list
3. That's what they want.
1. That's what they want.
2. That's the best option on the company car list
3. That's what they want.
t but then I suppose we have to learn to simply disagree.
Ares said:
Only as touchy as those who eschew diesel get about doing so
Diesels do sound like st. A decent 6cyl oil burner sounds better than most 3/4-cyl petrol, but like for like, it is a major downside....but the only real downside. revs are a misnomer. I've had cars that rev to 15,000rpm. Others than rev'd to 9,000. They are hard work for 99% of the time. When you get 300bhp+ without having to screw the engine above 7k, why is that automatically a bad thing? Ok, that 1% of use when you are on a moorland road, and you want to keep the engine above 7k, to max the power and feel like a racedriver....great. But most of the time, having most of the engines power permanently on top is a good thing. Engine flexibility is a huge plus.....and the narrow power band is another misnomer as well. Most decent cars have a power band of c2000-2500 rpm. Whether than is 2000-4500 or 4000 to 6500, the band is the same size.
....and fuel stinks of any variety, and with the crap pumps than stations use, petrol is equally likely to spill.
Diesels do sound like s
t. A decent 6cyl oil burner sounds better than most 3/4-cyl petrol, but like for like, it is a major downside....but the only real downside. revs are a misnomer. I've had cars that rev to 15,000rpm. Others than rev'd to 9,000. They are hard work for 99% of the time. When you get 300bhp+ without having to screw the engine above 7k, why is that automatically a bad thing? Ok, that 1% of use when you are on a moorland road, and you want to keep the engine above 7k, to max the power and feel like a racedriver....great. But most of the time, having most of the engines power permanently on top is a good thing. Engine flexibility is a huge plus.....and the narrow power band is another misnomer as well. Most decent cars have a power band of c2000-2500 rpm. Whether than is 2000-4500 or 4000 to 6500, the band is the same size.....and fuel stinks of any variety, and with the crap pumps than stations use, petrol is equally likely to spill.
yes, but Jesus how touchy can you be about what someone says about a car..it's not like you walked in on them cupping your dogs nuts?My (apparently) 'piece of crap diesel' Volvo was way nicer sounding than the 'stock' VAG/BM alternative. I would never go for a 4 cylinder diesel if I could afford not to, at least a 5/6/8 cylinder has something about it. When you are not in the mood something highly strung is a pain, I prefer larger engines and more torque nowadays but previously was devoted to high revving NA stuff. What I was trying to say, but didn't properly explain was that the power on modern diesels is still a bit short lived, it's hugely full of torque but doesn't make you want to drive it. I borrowed a 350 diesel mercedes and it was like going back 20 years, huge delay in the power. I have heard good things about the new 123d from a friend and of course they're are always exceptions. The petrol engine is still the benchmark for refinement, fun and power. The best diesel engine I ever used was in a VW Caddy. It took monumental amounts of abuse for many miles, had no turbo or other crap to choke it up, sounded like a pair of knackers in full armor going at it and always did 50mpg...in clouds of smoke
Ares said:
PS - what was the 1200mile/25mpg car?
E90 M3Sump said:
That's just plain delusion.
So just to confirm, if you had £612m in the bank you would still commute in your diesel stbox to save some fuel money
Stop trying to convince yourself you want to be driving that car.
To be honest if you had £612m in the bank I doubt you would be commuting anywhere !!!!So just to confirm, if you had £612m in the bank you would still commute in your diesel s
tbox to save some fuel money Stop trying to convince yourself you want to be driving that car.
And if you did it would be in a Augusta westland or similar !!!
I was given a new vanquish for a week, how many times did I do my daily commute in it before getting bored .... once !!!
Used the Audi or the rest of the week, far better visibility, Quieter, less stressful to drive ( idiots trying to race, take photo's) technology ( nav etc from the 1990's !!)
And that was with a free car and free fuel !!
I don't even commute in the GTC
Phib
I think the issue is lots of people driving diesel who shouldn't.
They aren't design for short journeys and low mileages. Looked at a 3 year smax diesel that a motab customer had and she had managed 18k in 3 years and the dpf was probably on the way out. The nitrogen is bad for cities to boot.
If you do the mileage to make a diesel make sense great, although a lot of modern petrol engines are starting to offer a real alternative. I read a review for current A3 the 1.4tfsi petrol is better all-rounder than the diesel offerings.
They aren't design for short journeys and low mileages. Looked at a 3 year smax diesel that a motab customer had and she had managed 18k in 3 years and the dpf was probably on the way out. The nitrogen is bad for cities to boot.
If you do the mileage to make a diesel make sense great, although a lot of modern petrol engines are starting to offer a real alternative. I read a review for current A3 the 1.4tfsi petrol is better all-rounder than the diesel offerings.
plus I visit building sites constantly so need gear with me a lot of the time.So if it's not the mpg it's the CO2 or the resale value. In any event, the answer to the question appears to be the same - save money somewhere. I guess the question could be simplified to 'why do people buy diesels'. Not surprising, as I've yet to meeet a diesel owner who has been able to resist telling me what mpg they get from their car.
To be fair I don't understand all this anger against diesels. A £50k saloon is still first of all a mean of daily transport, not the most excting object to drive on your favourite road in a sunny Sunday. The most exciting sportscar currently on sale are all petrol powered, so there is little doubt that the best engine for having fun is a petrol one.
As a mean of daily transport, especially over motorways a diesel big saloon is a lot more efficient and the performance feels easily more or at least equally effortless than a petrol counterpart.
As a mean of daily transport, especially over motorways a diesel big saloon is a lot more efficient and the performance feels easily more or at least equally effortless than a petrol counterpart.
Baryonyx said:
Sump said:
Stop trying to convince yourself you want to be driving that car.
This. Just because you can afford a 535d doesn't mean cost isn't a factor. Being able to afford and run and 'decent' diesel is one thing, being able to make the sums add up in the top spec petrol is another, and anyone with an interest in cars would take the M5 if they could. There are some really good diesel cars around, there is no doubt. I laid many of my prejudices against diesel to rest when I had a go in a 123d and found it to be usefully quick, frugal and frankly, pretty bearable. But the owner would freely admit he'd have an M3 if he could afford it. There is no shame in being able to afford a nice diesel and not a nice petrol. Consider that you've done well enough to get that far, but don't try and kid me you absolutely prefer it unless you tow a speedboat to work every day.
9mm said:
So if it's not the mpg it's the CO2 or the resale value. In any event, the answer to the question appears to be the same - save money somewhere. I guess the question could be simplified to 'why do people buy diesels'. Not surprising, as I've yet to meeet a diesel owner who has been able to resist telling me what mpg they get from their car.
You may be right but it is a natural attitude, never met somebody who told me to have happily spent more than me to get the same thing, like the same ticket for a football match.Buying petrol or diesel to cover the same motorway distance in a Audi A6 petrol and diesel V6 is the same thing that paying more for a business class air ticket on the same plane and route because the color of the seat is different...
9mm said:
So if it's not the mpg it's the CO2 or the resale value. In any event, the answer to the question appears to be the same - save money somewhere. I guess the question could be simplified to 'why do people buy diesels'. Not surprising, as I've yet to meeet a diesel owner who has been able to resist telling me what mpg they get from their car.
You're not reading the whole thread. It's not the MPG, it's the range. (I drive both petrol and diesel). 40 mile round trip to the nearest fuel.BRR said:
I have Diesel for doing all the mundane stuff like the commute (80 miles per day), trips to the tip etc, basically tasks that aren't any fun regardless of what car i'd be in so i may aswell do those tasks as cheaply as possible so i can spend the money saved on things i do enjoy like thrashing a decent V8 petrol around the Scottish highlands or buying rare William Shatner merchandise. Being as i have diesel for the sole purpose of it being cheap, i ensure my Diesel car is also cheap
I know that Diesels can have impressive performance figures, but it's no fun extracting that performance. I've driven some quick-ish diesels and whilst the acceleration down a slip road or equivalent is decent there's no fun to be had in taking the car for a proper drive
Compared to the equivalent petrol? Or compared to a 'sports car'? The fun aspect, from my experience, is more the car than the power plant (assuming same grunt/performance etc)I know that Diesels can have impressive performance figures, but it's no fun extracting that performance. I've driven some quick-ish diesels and whilst the acceleration down a slip road or equivalent is decent there's no fun to be had in taking the car for a proper drive
p1stonhead said:
hornetrider said:
beanbag said:
Yeah I know....touchy, but the ignorance of some is staggering. You might as well say you've driven a Trabant and say all petrols are a heap of s
t. It just gets tiring seeing the same bullst on here, over and over.t like all diesels do, didn't like it. Stuck with my V8.ks off.See how an opinion works?
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