Why are people buying expensive diesels?
Discussion
Ares said:
Car is a 640d GC MSport. (bought on the last day of the quarter for max dealer contribution, plus using BMWFS for their contribution, then put on at a 'special' APR - I'm classed as a diplomat...!
Your costs above miss a couple of aspects. My £32k is assured. I won't be more. I may well be less if the car, after 3 years, is worth more than the GFV, which it should be, especially given the Schnitzer kit. (Your example cars above had a list prices (well) less than mine, are are still worth near £10k more than my GFV.
It will also not have any scary bills, and most likely no, if any maintenance costs. It *may* near rear tyres, but no brakes/discs/fluids/filters/etc. Once a car gets between 3 and 6 yrs they start costing more. You will probably need brakes and pads. You will probably need a full set of tyres. You will also have to pay for servicing, and after 3 years, any decent car (which these are) will have a big service. So if you add in £1000 for tyres, £1000 for a full set of brakes and £1500 for servicing, you £9k advantage becomes £5.5k.
You are also likely to run into bills of some sort. Pretty much everyone I know with a 3-6yr old car has had to spend money on it, whether exhaust/engine/suspension/etc. So that dents your £5.5k further.
Even without that, assuming we buy a great and perfect/fault-free car at 3yrs old, what I am paying for is effectively £5.5k to have a brand new car, zero worry and the feel-good-factor of driving a 640d GC Sport rather than a 3yr old SUV/Skoda/S5/135i/etc.
For me that is worth it, well worth it. For other it won't be. But the economics are not as poles-apart as assumed!
You got a good deal, that's for sure. Though 3-5 year old cars are pretty much the same as new cars in terms of maintenance costs when bought from a main dealer in my experience. You get the full warranty from main dealer purchase, works just as well as brand new one, the cars are normally up to date on servicing, brakes, tyres, etc when buying it. I certainly don't see why the comparison would be a new 640d GC vs a 3yr old Skoda/135? A better comparison would be more like a new 640d GC vs a 3yr old M6, I would have thought they'd cost similar. But obviously that's a debate older than 'is there a god' - the old 'new' vs 'used' - and there's no point in covering that here! But you certainly wouldn't have had to trade down a model if going for a used car.Your costs above miss a couple of aspects. My £32k is assured. I won't be more. I may well be less if the car, after 3 years, is worth more than the GFV, which it should be, especially given the Schnitzer kit. (Your example cars above had a list prices (well) less than mine, are are still worth near £10k more than my GFV.
It will also not have any scary bills, and most likely no, if any maintenance costs. It *may* near rear tyres, but no brakes/discs/fluids/filters/etc. Once a car gets between 3 and 6 yrs they start costing more. You will probably need brakes and pads. You will probably need a full set of tyres. You will also have to pay for servicing, and after 3 years, any decent car (which these are) will have a big service. So if you add in £1000 for tyres, £1000 for a full set of brakes and £1500 for servicing, you £9k advantage becomes £5.5k.
You are also likely to run into bills of some sort. Pretty much everyone I know with a 3-6yr old car has had to spend money on it, whether exhaust/engine/suspension/etc. So that dents your £5.5k further.
Even without that, assuming we buy a great and perfect/fault-free car at 3yrs old, what I am paying for is effectively £5.5k to have a brand new car, zero worry and the feel-good-factor of driving a 640d GC Sport rather than a 3yr old SUV/Skoda/S5/135i/etc.
For me that is worth it, well worth it. For other it won't be. But the economics are not as poles-apart as assumed!
Any car costing £70k-£100k is usually going to work out at around £15k-£20k per year with depreciation and finance costs accounted for on a PCP deal via any of the mainstream luxury brands. And I am talking sale price £70k-£100k, not list price. Whether or not that's worth it, is down to the person. You may of course end up with some equity if the car is worth more when the end of the agreement arrives.
The one thing I'd say is though, if you are spending that much - and it is a lot - you may as well go for the fuel type you prefer when possible!
hornetrider said:
Ares said:
Car is a 640d GC MSport. (bought on the last day of the quarter for max dealer contribution, plus using BMWFS for their contribution, then put on at a 'special' APR - I'm classed as a diplomat...!
Nice - lovely motor.Ares said:
It will also not have any scary bills, and most likely no, if any maintenance costs. It *may* near rear tyres, but no brakes/discs/fluids/filters/etc. Once a car gets between 3 and 6 yrs they start costing more. You will probably need brakes and pads. You will probably need a full set of tyres. You will also have to pay for servicing, and after 3 years, any decent car (which these are) will have a big service. So if you add in £1000 for tyres, £1000 for a full set of brakes and £1500 for servicing, you £9k advantage becomes £5.5k.
You're not going to service the car in 3 years? Or have you negotiated a service plan inclusive to your costs you've not previously mentioned? So there's 1500 back on. I'm not sure you can count tyres as costs, because both cars will be owned for 3 years so will use the same amount of tyres. So that's a grand back on. A grand for brakes?! I've run my E61 for just coming up to 3 years and 55k and have only replaced rear pads and disks at a cost of approx £200.Ares said:
You are also likely to run into bills of some sort. Pretty much everyone I know with a 3-6yr old car has had to spend money on it, whether exhaust/engine/suspension/etc. So that dents your £5.5k further.
No it doesn't, I've included a rather generous 3k allowing for a comprehensive BMW warranty. Personally speaking I run mine without a warranty, and have only been 'stung' for a £150 quid diversity aerial. And the £5.5k is assuming you don't have ANY costs beyond routine. Any costs (many of which an insurance backed warranty won't cover) would further dent that £5.5k. I don't know anyone that has run a 6yr old car without non-maintenance costs.
Regardless. The £5.5k is worth it for the peace of mind, even before I look at the value of the feel-good-factor of a new, more premium car.
hornetrider said:
Ares said:
hornetrider said:
Ares said:
My car is cost me £12k cash upfront, three years at £580, then I can ether buy the car for just over £16k or just hand it back. Beyond, there are no servicing costs, no maintenance costs, it may need a full set of tyres if I decide to switch to run-flats, if not it will likely need a set of rears. It shouldn't need brake pads or discs or any other bill beyond fuel and insurance.
I also get to run around in a brand new, list price £75k car that does everything I need it to, and more. Has a better than evens chance of being 100% reliable and gives zero worry.
Actually just a thought - those are PCP figures right? Why on earth didn't you lease?! Those costs are insane for a brand new GC.I also get to run around in a brand new, list price £75k car that does everything I need it to, and more. Has a better than evens chance of being 100% reliable and gives zero worry.
Ares said:
....so revert to version one. 
You can as much as you like but I really don't understand what you are getting at?It's either you are thinking that;
1. I can't afford a £50K car by drawing out the funds from a bank account
2. I can't afford finance for a £50K car
3. My mortgage is too expensive and I don't understand how it works
4. Other
In answer;
1. I could, but wouldn't
2. see above
3. It isn't, LTV is <15% 5 years remaining on term
4. Explain?
WarnieV6GT said:
CO2 my arse.
On the rare occasions I take my push bike out it's obvious which cars chuck the most s
t out and make it difficult to breath, and it ain't the big engine'd petrol's.
Hateful things that unfortunately have now become the norm. On the plus side cars like mine with a big petrol engine will be worth more as they are becoming so rare.
You do know that the stuff you see diesels chucking out isn't CO2...On the rare occasions I take my push bike out it's obvious which cars chuck the most s
t out and make it difficult to breath, and it ain't the big engine'd petrol's.Hateful things that unfortunately have now become the norm. On the plus side cars like mine with a big petrol engine will be worth more as they are becoming so rare.
yonex said:
Ares said:
....so revert to version one.
You can as much as you like but I really don't understand what you are getting at?It's either you are thinking that;
1. I can't afford a £50K car by drawing out the funds from a bank account
2. I can't afford finance for a £50K car
3. My mortgage is too expensive and I don't understand how it works
4. Other
In answer;
1. I could, but wouldn't
2. see above
3. It isn't, LTV is <15% 5 years remaining on term
4. Explain?
yonex said:
Ares said:
matsoc said:
What I don't get is the idea that when spending £50k+ on a car the operating costs should not be considered...
You'll find that idea is almost exclusively that of those who could not spend £50k+ on a car.....and might just be the reason why! It would be complete madness to take £50K out of your bank account and drop it on a new car.
Ares said:
My '14 640d averages mid-43-46. (all from trip computer - I don't have the time or will to calculate from the pump/fill-up)
They are strong figures and I haven't seen more than 41/42mpg from our 640d coupe and the GC is heavier...I need a remap it seems as we cover three times the mileage you do too. cerb4.5lee said:
Ares said:
My '14 640d averages mid-43-46. (all from trip computer - I don't have the time or will to calculate from the pump/fill-up)
They are strong figures and I haven't seen more than 41/42mpg from our 640d coupe and the GC is heavier...I need a remap it seems as we cover three times the mileage you do too. Ares said:
cerb4.5lee said:
Ares said:
My '14 640d averages mid-43-46. (all from trip computer - I don't have the time or will to calculate from the pump/fill-up)
They are strong figures and I haven't seen more than 41/42mpg from our 640d coupe and the GC is heavier...I need a remap it seems as we cover three times the mileage you do too. 
cerb4.5lee said:
Ares said:
cerb4.5lee said:
Ares said:
My '14 640d averages mid-43-46. (all from trip computer - I don't have the time or will to calculate from the pump/fill-up)
They are strong figures and I haven't seen more than 41/42mpg from our 640d coupe and the GC is heavier...I need a remap it seems as we cover three times the mileage you do too. Ollie123 said:
I’m trying to buy an expensive sporty saloon but they are all diesels.
First car on the list was a Panamera but the 3 main dealers I rang had nothing but diesels available.
Keeping an open mind I was persuaded by the salesman to drive the diesel, "they are better than the petrols these day sir, with your mileage it'll suit you to the ground and the residuals are far better than the petrol".
Do you think he says this to people asking to buy a Panamera Turbo I wonder?
An extended test drive confirmed it was every bit as bad as I had thought, clattery, dull, slow, boring, and not economical enough to justify the former.
So while I keep an eye on autotrader for a suitable Panamera I looked at 6 series gran coupe, only 5 petrols available on auto trader and all hundreds of miles away but over 100 diesels.
Keeping an open mind I went to view a 640d but I aborted the test drive after a few seconds of hearing the engine idling. The salesman tells me if they get a petrol in stock they will charge a premium for it because all their petrol models are exported to Asia where the market is quite different…
One would assume that anyone who spends £50k on a car has a lot of money and isn't overly concerned with running costs. So why are people still choosing diesel? Can they honestly not tell the difference between a petrol and diesel these days?
Has the general population fell for the decade long propaganda that diesel is the saviour of motoring?
Before anyone gets offended, I am not talking about taxi drivers, reps, or HGVs that do 50,000 miles a year. I’m talking specifically about expensive saloons which you can pick up a year old with 5k on the clock with one former private keeper.
I bought the OH an Alpina D3 because it's quick good on fuel handles very well & most importantly it's the car the OH would only accept as a replacement for her C63.First car on the list was a Panamera but the 3 main dealers I rang had nothing but diesels available.
Keeping an open mind I was persuaded by the salesman to drive the diesel, "they are better than the petrols these day sir, with your mileage it'll suit you to the ground and the residuals are far better than the petrol".
Do you think he says this to people asking to buy a Panamera Turbo I wonder?
An extended test drive confirmed it was every bit as bad as I had thought, clattery, dull, slow, boring, and not economical enough to justify the former.
So while I keep an eye on autotrader for a suitable Panamera I looked at 6 series gran coupe, only 5 petrols available on auto trader and all hundreds of miles away but over 100 diesels.
Keeping an open mind I went to view a 640d but I aborted the test drive after a few seconds of hearing the engine idling. The salesman tells me if they get a petrol in stock they will charge a premium for it because all their petrol models are exported to Asia where the market is quite different…
One would assume that anyone who spends £50k on a car has a lot of money and isn't overly concerned with running costs. So why are people still choosing diesel? Can they honestly not tell the difference between a petrol and diesel these days?
Has the general population fell for the decade long propaganda that diesel is the saviour of motoring?
Before anyone gets offended, I am not talking about taxi drivers, reps, or HGVs that do 50,000 miles a year. I’m talking specifically about expensive saloons which you can pick up a year old with 5k on the clock with one former private keeper.
As a person that likes a V8 I have to say it fulfills it's brief it has a decent exhaust note it's quick & very a good car.
I think the reason for there being more diesels is their performance, for example the 4.2 tdi Panamera 385bhp 0-60 5.4 the V8 S Panamera 400bhp 0-60 5.0 economy is very different which is why you're struggling to find a petrol.
Unless you're buying the Turbo version of the Panamera or M6 GC it seems the diesel cuts just as good a a dash as the petrol counter part.
Also OP if there are petrol a couple of hundred miles away why wouldn't you go to look at them? Distance shouldn't be an issue in finding the right car.
Edited by ZX10R NIN on Sunday 6th September 15:53
confused_buyer said:
sealtt said:
Just because they use ridiculous 'list prices' which no-one ever pays does not make PCP a bargain, it's just a different way of paying for things which comes with a 'free' sell option.
BMW's pricing these days is truly bonkers. I wonder at what point someone sat around in a meeting in about 2010 and said "you know what, I've been looking, and when it comes to our next 10 year strategy I think the kind of company we want to be is Vauxhall".That's what makes many new BMWs cheaper as a cash buyer(particularly if you churn through them every 18 months) than their expensive PCP or the (not that much cheaper) lease deals, thanks to the network's superb yield management. Plus, your cash doesn't have to stagnate in the bank at a 1.5% ISA rate (-minus tax above the threshold) that just about beats inflation !
Edited by nickfrog on Saturday 5th September 13:53
For me, I don't see the point in buying an expensive saloon car with a petrol engine. I have a 535d that I bought new for the primary purpose of commuting to work on mainly motorways and doing 25k miles a year. What advantage does the petrol offer that is worth suffering 10 mpg less? It might sound a little better, be a little smoother but the diesel engine is pretty close and I never drive it thinking how noisy it is or wishing for something the petrol might offer whilst chugging along the M25. I'm not suggesting it is as nice as a petrol V8 but it's an impressive engine and does everything I want from the car. If I was spanking around country lanes daily then I wouldn't buy a 5 series as it is a massive boat with vague steering and would still be one with a petrol engine.
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