Why are people buying expensive diesels?
Discussion
chrispj said:
That is because you have about half a ton of soundproofing between you and the engine, no? Have you stood outside the car and listened to the tractor sound as everyone else hears it? 
I've driven the Range Rover with the SDV8 engine and it's a nice engine full stop. What everyone else hears isn't my concern as they're not paying for the car.carl_w said:
jamieduff1981 said:
I'm with the OP here.
I find it absurd that it's acceptable to lose a lot of money on a new car but it's not acceptable to spend a small amount more on fuel.
Yes but if you buy a large engined petrol you will lose a load of money come resale (no-one wants them)I find it absurd that it's acceptable to lose a lot of money on a new car but it's not acceptable to spend a small amount more on fuel.
daemon said:
I think thats pretty much a myth TBH.
Depends on the car. For sports cars petrol is the only way forward. For run of the mill stuff it seems to be a different matter. I looked a couple of years back and there were loads of cheap BMW 650is, but no 635ds for a similar price.carl_w said:
daemon said:
I think thats pretty much a myth TBH.
Depends on the car. For sports cars petrol is the only way forward. For run of the mill stuff it seems to be a different matter. I looked a couple of years back and there were loads of cheap BMW 650is, but no 635ds for a similar price.Also, you need to compare apples with apples. The comparable car to a 635d is a 630i.
There was a thread last month about a 3 year old 550i on for £33K and there were some people scoffed and laughed at the idea it would be worth that. Some said it was only worth £25K tops and they they'd be "doing the dealer a favour taking it off his hands".
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=152...
It sat about a fortnight...
ChemicalChaos said:
As well as my V8 petrol Range Rover, I have had access to a V6 diesel A6 biturbo, and a straight six 435d.
Whilst both of these are a massive step up in smoothness from a boggo 4-cylinder tractor soundtrack, they are still incredibly gruff when you exercise your right foot. Even when cruising on the motorway, there is still an ever present rumble like a big ships engine. At idle, either in the car or stood outside, they ate very vocally clattery.
By comparison, the RR is silent at speed and silent at idle, with just a faint but pleasing roar when under load. Everyone who gets into it is amazed by the comparative silence to a "normal" diesel repmobile.
This is a very small price to pay for the fact that it requires a kickdown into higher revs to provide the same get up and go when overtaking as the torque-monster variable-turbo big diesels.
I've got the td6 Range Rover and you don't really notice the engine. They are just that well sound insulated I think. Needs more power but couldn't run a petrol version for 30k a year.Whilst both of these are a massive step up in smoothness from a boggo 4-cylinder tractor soundtrack, they are still incredibly gruff when you exercise your right foot. Even when cruising on the motorway, there is still an ever present rumble like a big ships engine. At idle, either in the car or stood outside, they ate very vocally clattery.
By comparison, the RR is silent at speed and silent at idle, with just a faint but pleasing roar when under load. Everyone who gets into it is amazed by the comparative silence to a "normal" diesel repmobile.
This is a very small price to pay for the fact that it requires a kickdown into higher revs to provide the same get up and go when overtaking as the torque-monster variable-turbo big diesels.
Cheapest approved used 2013 640i M Sport on Autotrader = £36,450
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
Cheapest approved used 2013 640d M Sport on Autotrader = £32,803
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
Cheapest approved used 2013 640d M Sport on Autotrader = £32,803
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
chrispj said:
That is because you have about half a ton of soundproofing between you and the engine, no? Have you stood outside the car and listened to the tractor sound as everyone else hears it?
I think it sounds pretty smooth outside, not that I ever listen to it much being as I'm normally driving the car Anyway, it's not exactly a big deal on a big truck like that, though I'd understand not wanting the diesel noise on a coupe for example.
There is a petrol version available, of no interest to me at all. It's already got more than enough power, the noise is fine - it's a 4x4 not a sports car - and I really see no reason I'd want to spend more on fuel than I already do.
daemon said:
The market has changed though this past couple of years particularly. Theres now that few big engined petrols being sold that the residuals are quite firm.
I wonder if this will be flipped now though that diesel costs less per litre than petrol? In the past it was worthwhile doing the maths as the better mpg from diesel was, to an extent, offset by the increased price per litre of diesel.I have no hidden agenda here. I have two BMWs. One is a 3.2 petrol and the other is a 3.0 diesel. I'm quite liking the 3.0 diesel (only had it just over a week).
willmagrath said:
Obviously, a petrol is a lot more fun, revvier and sounds better though.
Yeah, cos all those 4 banger petrols (which are what most people, even on PH, drive) all sound f
king great, don't they? 
I earn a good wage but the day I can spunk an extra £150 a month on fuel to have the same car as I've got with a petrol engine just for the noise isn't going to happen.
A big part of it has to do with range between fills, rather than exclusively the economics of running the car.
The concept of the hyper power saloon or SUV that creates world ending horsepower, and can teleport across continents in minutes is very appealing, and good fun .... the triumph of tech over Isaac Newton also appeals greatly.
For day to day use in this country, however, the appalling economy would quickly become tiresome, and being on first name terms with your local petrol station staff for your tanks of fuel becomes quite a chore in itself.
Most people like the brands, and like the products, and want to have the comfort and quality that the manufacturers are able to deliver. They also want to have the convenience of brimming the tank, and knowing that there's a fortnight of fuel available before they need to do so again.
Let's also remember, that the diesel vehicles that we're talking about aren't actually slow in the conventional sense. Please feel free to quote top trumps stats arguing that a 330i petrol car is faster from the brochure stats if that's what you want to do. Around motorway speeds, cross country, in towns, and into triple figure autobahn speeds, the diesel Panamera, Cayenne, GL or X5/6 is more than adequate, and plenty capable too. OK, it doesn't feel like the tyres are trying to claw the cats eyes from the ground when you hit the gas, however at least there's 500+ miles in the tank before you need to get out in the rain and wind anyway.
In the real world, how often does a Panamera Turbo ever have more than 50% of it's potential realised on a UK road, after all?
The concept of the hyper power saloon or SUV that creates world ending horsepower, and can teleport across continents in minutes is very appealing, and good fun .... the triumph of tech over Isaac Newton also appeals greatly.
For day to day use in this country, however, the appalling economy would quickly become tiresome, and being on first name terms with your local petrol station staff for your tanks of fuel becomes quite a chore in itself.
Most people like the brands, and like the products, and want to have the comfort and quality that the manufacturers are able to deliver. They also want to have the convenience of brimming the tank, and knowing that there's a fortnight of fuel available before they need to do so again.
Let's also remember, that the diesel vehicles that we're talking about aren't actually slow in the conventional sense. Please feel free to quote top trumps stats arguing that a 330i petrol car is faster from the brochure stats if that's what you want to do. Around motorway speeds, cross country, in towns, and into triple figure autobahn speeds, the diesel Panamera, Cayenne, GL or X5/6 is more than adequate, and plenty capable too. OK, it doesn't feel like the tyres are trying to claw the cats eyes from the ground when you hit the gas, however at least there's 500+ miles in the tank before you need to get out in the rain and wind anyway.
In the real world, how often does a Panamera Turbo ever have more than 50% of it's potential realised on a UK road, after all?
mat205125 said:
A big part of it has to do with range between fills .... and being on first name terms with your local petrol station staff for your tanks of fuel becomes quite a chore in itself.
This is, for myself at any rate, very very true.Up until a couple of years ago I was doing the same commute as I am now in a 5 litre V8. Having to fill up every 3 days became a real bore. I got sick of it. I now manage just under two weeks for a lot less. The car isn't appreciably slower.
My motorbike is also a good illustration of this range issue - it's got a range (til the light comes on) of between 107 and 113 miles - and will give a range on reserve of around 13 miles. On a long trip - especially in France on a Sunday - you start planning fuel stops anytime after about 75 miles. My commute is 70 miles. It has to be filled every single day. Total ballache.
Having had several petrol and diesel expensive diesels and owning 3 v8 petrol's and one v12 petrol (fun cars) I can only share my experience.
I had a 740d and have now moved to a a6 Bitdi, I looked at petrol's the 740i and s6 but when it came down to it the performance was negligible, really couldn't feel it on the road. In fact the diesels felt like they had more shove due to the turbo's.
It was the fuel that put me off, a combination of range and refilling but also the cost. I had the s6 on test and filled it up on average 2.5 times per week where as the a6 was once.
The figure were as follows and I defy anyone to be able to tell the difference on the road.
740i 0-60 5.7 (28mpg)
740d 0-60 6.1 (40mpg)
S6 0-60 4.5 (29mpg)
A6 0-60 5.1 (44mpg)
Just my 2p worth
Phib
I had a 740d and have now moved to a a6 Bitdi, I looked at petrol's the 740i and s6 but when it came down to it the performance was negligible, really couldn't feel it on the road. In fact the diesels felt like they had more shove due to the turbo's.
It was the fuel that put me off, a combination of range and refilling but also the cost. I had the s6 on test and filled it up on average 2.5 times per week where as the a6 was once.
The figure were as follows and I defy anyone to be able to tell the difference on the road.
740i 0-60 5.7 (28mpg)
740d 0-60 6.1 (40mpg)
S6 0-60 4.5 (29mpg)
A6 0-60 5.1 (44mpg)
Just my 2p worth
Phib
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