Why are people buying expensive diesels?

[Wills2]

So you can't tell the difference between a petrol 4.0V8 TT with 450hp and a diesel 3.0V6 TT with 320hp?

[phib]

Wills2 said:

So you can't tell the difference between a petrol 4.0V8 TT with 450hp and a diesel 3.0V6 TT with 320hp?

Not any discernible difference, your talking 320bhp 8 speed v 414 bhp 7 speed, on the road its negligible.

I would go onto say that even these day a golf gti or GTD would keep up with most things ON THE ROAD, Golf or audi will certainly keep up with a Ferrari 550 (478bhp) or 355 (I know not on subject but fact)

Phib

[mat205125]

Dog Star said:

mat205125 said:

A big part of it has to do with range between fills .... and being on first name terms with your local petrol station staff for your tanks of fuel becomes quite a chore in itself.

This is, for myself at any rate, very very true.

Up until a couple of years ago I was doing the same commute as I am now in a 5 litre V8. Having to fill up every 3 days became a real bore. I got sick of it. I now manage just under two weeks for a lot less. The car isn't appreciably slower.

My motorbike is also a good illustration of this range issue - it's got a range (til the light comes on) of between 107 and 113 miles - and will give a range on reserve of around 13 miles. On a long trip - especially in France on a Sunday - you start planning fuel stops anytime after about 75 miles. My commute is 70 miles. It has to be filled every single day. Total ballache.

My sister commutes a round trip of close to 100 miles per day in her Panda 100hp. Great little car, and gives really good mpg for what it is, and the gearing, however the fuel tank is pathetic. She has to refill every 3rd day.

[emicen]

daemon said:

Cheapest approved used 2013 640i M Sport on Autotrader = £36,450

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

Cheapest approved used 2013 640d M Sport on Autotrader = £32,803

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

The car with 2.5 times the mileage is cheaper. Good lord.

[J4CKO]

phib said:

Wills2 said:

So you can't tell the difference between a petrol 4.0V8 TT with 450hp and a diesel 3.0V6 TT with 320hp?

Not any discernible difference, your talking 320bhp 8 speed v 414 bhp 7 speed, on the road its negligible.

I would go onto say that even these day a golf gti or GTD would keep up with most things ON THE ROAD, Golf or audi will certainly keep up with a Ferrari 550 (478bhp) or 355 (I know not on subject but fact)

Phib

Er, really ?

Do you mean when traffic and speed limits are taken into account ?

[hornetrider]

Dog Star said:

I earn a good wage but the day I can spunk an extra £150 a month on fuel to have the same car as I've got with a petrol engine just for the noise isn't going to happen.

Personally I think £150 a month is a small price to pay to avoid dying a little inside each time I turn the key of my car and hear the engine fire up.

[Wills2]

J4CKO said:

phib said:

Wills2 said:

So you can't tell the difference between a petrol 4.0V8 TT with 450hp and a diesel 3.0V6 TT with 320hp?

Not any discernible difference, your talking 320bhp 8 speed v 414 bhp 7 speed, on the road its negligible.

I would go onto say that even these day a golf gti or GTD would keep up with most things ON THE ROAD, Golf or audi will certainly keep up with a Ferrari 550 (478bhp) or 355 (I know not on subject but fact)

Phib

Er, really ?

Do you mean when traffic and speed limits are taken into account ?

In the same way a moped could keep up with a P1 in the London rush hour, people do come up with some bizarre and twisted arguments don't they.

[phib]

J4CKO said:

Er, really ?

Do you mean when traffic and speed limits are taken into account ?

No when roads are empty and private !!

Don't get me wrong I love petrol !!! Having owned 9 911's, Ferrari's, Tvr's but in the real world in BIG expensive cars i.e. saloons or estates there is next to no difference on the road.

Seriously go and drive a Bitdi back to back with an S6


Phib

[smithyithy]

My dad got a new Merc SLK a few months ago on a lease deal.

He found it an absolute ball ache to get a petrol, manual version rather than a diesel auto.

This in what is supposed to be a sporty 2-seat roadster, not a mile-munching company car econobox...

[andrewparker]

hornetrider said:

Dog Star said:

I earn a good wage but the day I can spunk an extra £150 a month on fuel to have the same car as I've got with a petrol engine just for the noise isn't going to happen.

Personally I think £150 a month is a small price to pay to avoid dying a little inside each time I turn the key of my car and hear the engine fire up.

You'd pay £5 every day just to avoid listening to a diesel cars start up sound?

[jbsportstech]

Its labour blame labour they have screwed us on so many levels with company car and emission based car tax that every man and his dog has been brain washed into buying a car solely on its tax liability. Cities are full of nitrogen and now starting to ban diesels. I tried to convince my company the 1.4 tfsi petrol would be better than 1.6 d for my mileage but they only want diesel.

I had an elderly neighbour who did 10 miles a week in his top spec jag but he got it into his mind the £400 road tax was a killer and chopped it for 1.5dci qashqui for £30 tax cost him £5k to change!

I was after a petrol smax to replace her zafira she does mostly town mileage less than 5k a year but they are like hens teeth! Only find 2.0 tdci which I wont run or 1 1.6tdci which was underpowered. Found 1.6t ecoboost miles away and a couple of 2.5t FST lumped 5 seater units.

[austinsmirk]

kind of worse "I've more money than you" post ever.

I've never heard such a ridiculous statement. You must be an absolute joy and pleasure to meet.

[cerb4.5lee]

Ollie123 said:

Keeping an open mind I went to view a 640d but I aborted the test drive after a few seconds of hearing the engine idling.

I love the shape and interior of ours but I also agree that the noise it makes at idle and low revs is soul destroying if you are a petrol head for sure, what also doesn't help is most magazines say that the diesel is the model to go for in the range which baffles me quite frankly as both the 640i/650i have far more enjoyable engines.

At the time of purchase we were doing around 40k miles a year so we felt that the range and perceived economy made sense but I would much sooner be enjoying the superior petrol engines in the range for certain and its replacement will have a petrol engine under its bonnet.

[PTF]

jbsportstech said:

Its labour blame labour they have screwed us on so many levels with company car and emission based car tax that every man and his dog has been brain washed into buying a car solely on its tax liability. Cities are full of nitrogen and now starting to ban diesels. I tried to convince my company the 1.4 tfsi petrol would be better than 1.6 d for my mileage but they only want diesel.

I had an elderly neighbour who did 10 miles a week in his top spec jag but he got it into his mind the £400 road tax was a killer and chopped it for 1.5dci qashqui for £30 tax cost him £5k to change!

I was after a petrol smax to replace her zafira she does mostly town mileage less than 5k a year but they are like hens teeth! Only find 2.0 tdci which I wont run or 1 1.6tdci which was underpowered. Found 1.6t ecoboost miles away and a couple of 2.5t FST lumped 5 seater units.

Neighbour of mine changed her 320i for an A3 1.6 TDI recently.

She does a 3 mile commute into town from our village.

Apparently the BMW was only doing about 20 mpg.

Waiting to see how long the DPF lasts on that A3.

Also, friend of mine has a Focus 1.6 TDCI. Uses it for very short journeys mostly. Engine light came on the other day. We stuck an OBD2 reader onto it and apparently the DPF fluid is empty. He was shocked by this. It's not cheap to get the kit to refill it either!

Edited by PTF on Tuesday 1st September 13:04

[jbsportstech]

PTF said:

Neighbour of mine changed her 320i for an A3 1.6 TDI recently.

She does a 3 mile commute into town from our village.

Apparently the BMW was only doing about 20 mpg.

Waiting to see how long the DPF lasts on that A3.

Also, friend of mine has a Focus 1.6 TDCI. Uses it for very short journeys mostly. Engine light came on the other day. We stuck an OBD2 reader onto it and apparently the DPF fluid is empty. He was shocked by this. It's not cheap to get the kit to refill it either!

Edited by PTF on Tuesday 1st September 13:04

One of the reasons I cant get a diesel smax plus the additional costs longest trip she does in the week is 9 miles shortest is 3.

The diesel A3 1.6tdi is nice but was doing 60 miles a day in mine.

I am waiting to see if my new diesel golf doesn't like 6 mile round commute, although I have done 600 miles this weekend. I do 50 mile trips to site every fortnight maybe that will be enough.

As for her car its averaged 3-4k a year so far and we now live walking distance from school so a petrol is all I am buying but might have to be a zafira.

Edited by jbsportstech on Tuesday 1st September 13:25

[mat205125]

jbsportstech said:

I had an elderly neighbour who did 10 miles a week in his top spec jag but he got it into his mind the £400 road tax was a killer and chopped it for 1.5dci qashqui for £30 tax cost him £5k to change!

^ This

I see this on so many occasions with friends and family.

A decision made with neither the heart nor head.

[hornetrider]

andrewparker said:

You'd pay £5 every day just to avoid listening to a diesel cars start up sound?

Well, that and living with one of the things, yeah. And you could say I do, I put my money where my mouth is. Do 20k p/a in my V8.

[Ares]

jamieduff1981 said:

I'm with the OP here.

I find it absurd that it's acceptable to lose a lot of money on a new car but it's not acceptable to spend a small amount more on fuel.

Keeping an open mind, we initially tried the V6 diesel version of ours. It was crap. We bought the supercharged V8 and are very happy we did.

The power is still effortless from low down. It's also effortless high up. The automatic gearbox is very well suited to it. It doesn't drink twice as much as the diesel. It is real-world very much more powerful than the diesel if you want to use it. In any given gear it'll match the diesel performance from idle up to the diesel's best effort, whereupon it then keeps going long after the diesel starts hammering and wheezing looking for another gear.

Its always possible that some people buying new cars drive petrol and diesel versions of the same car and just prefer the diesel. Like I did.


As for you preferring a Supercharged V8 rather than a V6 diesel. You would be a loon for not.

[matsoc]

phib said:

J4CKO said:

Er, really ?

Do you mean when traffic and speed limits are taken into account ?

No when roads are empty and private !!

Don't get me wrong I love petrol !!! Having owned 9 911's, Ferrari's, Tvr's but in the real world in BIG expensive cars i.e. saloons or estates there is next to no difference on the road.

Seriously go and drive a Bitdi back to back with an S6


Phib

I can't answer on the S6/Bitdi but I drove back to back an M5 and a M550xd estate and there was an hell of difference on the road.

[Muzzer79]

Ollie123 said:

Muzzer79 said:

Really don't understand the anti-diesel-ness on here in general

Its not really anti diesel is it, most of us accept they have their place just not in £50k+ cars.

If you bought a house for £5 million pounds you wouldn't want it decorated in furniture from Ikea would you.

Also is the range argument even valid? Something like a Panamera has a 100litre tank, and in some cars such as the Audi A8 the 4.2 TDi only returns mid 20's in real life so hardly good considering the draw backs.

Why not in £50k+ cars?

A diesel isn't a poorer option in all cases.

It's an engine - it offers decent performance and, to the layman, is almost indistinguishable from a petrol.

Show me a guy with an M6 and I'll show you another guy with a 640d who says it's real-world as quick but does 40mpg.

It may not sound as good or rev as high, but some people don't care about that as much as practical considerations.

I find it odd that so many people perceive diesels as a blatantly worse option when they're simply different, not worse.