Why are people buying expensive diesels?
Discussion
I’m trying to buy an expensive sporty saloon but they are all diesels.
First car on the list was a Panamera but the 3 main dealers I rang had nothing but diesels available.
Keeping an open mind I was persuaded by the salesman to drive the diesel, "they are better than the petrols these day sir, with your mileage it'll suit you to the ground and the residuals are far better than the petrol".
Do you think he says this to people asking to buy a Panamera Turbo I wonder?
An extended test drive confirmed it was every bit as bad as I had thought, clattery, dull, slow, boring, and not economical enough to justify the former.
So while I keep an eye on autotrader for a suitable Panamera I looked at 6 series gran coupe, only 5 petrols available on auto trader and all hundreds of miles away but over 100 diesels.
Keeping an open mind I went to view a 640d but I aborted the test drive after a few seconds of hearing the engine idling. The salesman tells me if they get a petrol in stock they will charge a premium for it because all their petrol models are exported to Asia where the market is quite different…
One would assume that anyone who spends £50k on a car has a lot of money and isn't overly concerned with running costs. So why are people still choosing diesel? Can they honestly not tell the difference between a petrol and diesel these days?
Has the general population fell for the decade long propaganda that diesel is the saviour of motoring?
Before anyone gets offended, I am not talking about taxi drivers, reps, or HGVs that do 50,000 miles a year. I’m talking specifically about expensive saloons which you can pick up a year old with 5k on the clock with one former private keeper.
First car on the list was a Panamera but the 3 main dealers I rang had nothing but diesels available.
Keeping an open mind I was persuaded by the salesman to drive the diesel, "they are better than the petrols these day sir, with your mileage it'll suit you to the ground and the residuals are far better than the petrol".
Do you think he says this to people asking to buy a Panamera Turbo I wonder?
An extended test drive confirmed it was every bit as bad as I had thought, clattery, dull, slow, boring, and not economical enough to justify the former.
So while I keep an eye on autotrader for a suitable Panamera I looked at 6 series gran coupe, only 5 petrols available on auto trader and all hundreds of miles away but over 100 diesels.
Keeping an open mind I went to view a 640d but I aborted the test drive after a few seconds of hearing the engine idling. The salesman tells me if they get a petrol in stock they will charge a premium for it because all their petrol models are exported to Asia where the market is quite different…
One would assume that anyone who spends £50k on a car has a lot of money and isn't overly concerned with running costs. So why are people still choosing diesel? Can they honestly not tell the difference between a petrol and diesel these days?
Has the general population fell for the decade long propaganda that diesel is the saviour of motoring?
Before anyone gets offended, I am not talking about taxi drivers, reps, or HGVs that do 50,000 miles a year. I’m talking specifically about expensive saloons which you can pick up a year old with 5k on the clock with one former private keeper.
I got picked up from the airport a couple of weeks ago in a brand new LWB S-class diesel. I was surprised by the ever-present grumble from the engine and some noticeable vibration.
It seems like a large chunk of the population has deluded themselves into thinking that diesels are refined.
It seems like a large chunk of the population has deluded themselves into thinking that diesels are refined.
Most people aren't car enthusiasts and like the effortless, torquey power delivery of modern diesels. They also consider fuel consumption and road tax to be the only factors to consider when working out ownership costs. Which may well make the car cheaper to own and run in certain circumstances, but not in all.
Rickyy said:
Most people aren't car enthusiasts and like the effortless, torquey power delivery of modern diesels. They also consider fuel consumption and road tax to be the only factors to consider when working out ownership costs. Which may well make the car cheaper to own and run in certain circumstances, but not in all.
I'd say the forced induction petrol equivalents are just as effortless, only a lot smoother and pleasant, and if we're talking about base models then even cheaper than the diesels. 
£50k point is not enough expensive to ignore fuel costs and residuals, at least for many people I guess. Also the petrol L6 or V6 are not so real world faster than the diesel L6-V6 if applied on big heavy cars, you have to go to V8 petrol to really make a true step up in performance.
Ollie123 said:
I'd say the forced induction petrol equivalents are just as effortless, only a lot smoother and pleasant, and if we're talking about base models then even cheaper than the diesels.
No they aren't. There is no getting away from the fact that a diesel delivers its power much further down the rev range.I can use my TD quite easily in slow stop/start motorway conditions without even touching the accelerator.
It makes max torque before 2500 rpm and I would guess I can get up to around 40 - 50mph from standstill on tickover.
Diesels are much better suited to Autoboxes too.
The gap has narrowed, but is still noticeable, i'd take a diesel over a petrol on a long motorway journey anyday.
I'm with the OP here.
I find it absurd that it's acceptable to lose a lot of money on a new car but it's not acceptable to spend a small amount more on fuel.
Keeping an open mind, we initially tried the V6 diesel version of ours. It was crap. We bought the supercharged V8 and are very happy we did.
The power is still effortless from low down. It's also effortless high up. The automatic gearbox is very well suited to it. It doesn't drink twice as much as the diesel. It is real-world very much more powerful than the diesel if you want to use it. In any given gear it'll match the diesel performance from idle up to the diesel's best effort, whereupon it then keeps going long after the diesel starts hammering and wheezing looking for another gear.
I find it absurd that it's acceptable to lose a lot of money on a new car but it's not acceptable to spend a small amount more on fuel.
Keeping an open mind, we initially tried the V6 diesel version of ours. It was crap. We bought the supercharged V8 and are very happy we did.
The power is still effortless from low down. It's also effortless high up. The automatic gearbox is very well suited to it. It doesn't drink twice as much as the diesel. It is real-world very much more powerful than the diesel if you want to use it. In any given gear it'll match the diesel performance from idle up to the diesel's best effort, whereupon it then keeps going long after the diesel starts hammering and wheezing looking for another gear.
AnotherClarkey said:
I got picked up from the airport a couple of weeks ago in a brand new LWB S-class diesel. I was surprised by the ever-present grumble from the engine and some noticeable vibration.
It seems like a large chunk of the population has deluded themselves into thinking that diesels are refined.
I am so glad someone feels the same as me!It seems like a large chunk of the population has deluded themselves into thinking that diesels are refined.
The general population really as deluded themselves into thinking they are sitting in something refined that has diesel engine.
The difference is very noticable when you are used to a diesel and go back to petrol!
Mind blowing how people tolerate it. Very much like the OP i struggled to get a petrol variant of my car and had no choice but to get a diiesel.
Next one will be 1000% petrol variant
I'm proud to say I have never and never will own a Diesel car. I conducted a 210 mile round journey with around 10 miles of town driving on top in my Focus snotter (see best of bargin basement thread) its a 2.0 petrol saloon with 163,000 miles on it and it completed the whole journey on exactly 1/2 a tank which is around £32 to £35 tops of fuel. That was four up with a boot of bags and 70+. The sooner diesels are dropped the better.
As well as my V8 petrol Range Rover, I have had access to a V6 diesel A6 biturbo, and a straight six 435d.
Whilst both of these are a massive step up in smoothness from a boggo 4-cylinder tractor soundtrack, they are still incredibly gruff when you exercise your right foot. Even when cruising on the motorway, there is still an ever present rumble like a big ships engine. At idle, either in the car or stood outside, they ate very vocally clattery.
By comparison, the RR is silent at speed and silent at idle, with just a faint but pleasing roar when under load. Everyone who gets into it is amazed by the comparative silence to a "normal" diesel repmobile.
This is a very small price to pay for the fact that it requires a kickdown into higher revs to provide the same get up and go when overtaking as the torque-monster variable-turbo big diesels.
Whilst both of these are a massive step up in smoothness from a boggo 4-cylinder tractor soundtrack, they are still incredibly gruff when you exercise your right foot. Even when cruising on the motorway, there is still an ever present rumble like a big ships engine. At idle, either in the car or stood outside, they ate very vocally clattery.
By comparison, the RR is silent at speed and silent at idle, with just a faint but pleasing roar when under load. Everyone who gets into it is amazed by the comparative silence to a "normal" diesel repmobile.
This is a very small price to pay for the fact that it requires a kickdown into higher revs to provide the same get up and go when overtaking as the torque-monster variable-turbo big diesels.
227bhp said:
No they aren't. There is no getting away from the fact that a diesel delivers its power much further down the rev range.
I can use my TD quite easily in slow stop/start motorway conditions without even touching the accelerator.
In the words of Stephen Fry; "so fI can use my TD quite easily in slow stop/start motorway conditions without even touching the accelerator.
king what?".227bhp said:
Ollie123 said:
I'd say the forced induction petrol equivalents are just as effortless, only a lot smoother and pleasant, and if we're talking about base models then even cheaper than the diesels.
No they aren't. There is no getting away from the fact that a diesel delivers its power much further down the rev range.I can use my TD quite easily in slow stop/start motorway conditions without even touching the accelerator.
It makes max torque before 2500 rpm and I would guess I can get up to around 40 - 50mph from standstill on tickover.
Diesels are much better suited to Autoboxes too.
The gap has narrowed, but is still noticeable, i'd take a diesel over a petrol on a long motorway journey anyday.
I run a new SDV8 Range Rover Vogue, I'm not sure how modern the engine is but it works well with the drivetrain and the truck itself. It's a lovely smooth drive, sounds fine - only ever hear the engine at full power, gives a nice little purr - and is plenty powerful enough. The downsides are that it occasionally has to spit out black smoke when it regens itself and trips to the gas station aren't the sensory delight they used to be when a petrol high was just a bit of inefficient driving away.
ChemicalChaos said:
I have had access to a V6 diesel A6 biturbo, and a straight six 435d.
Tuesday evenings and every other weekend?The new generation of turbo petrols is pushing the world a little bit back towards gasoline. For a big motorway muncher doing mega-miles, diesel still makes the most sense. But for smaller cars around town, a new-gen blown petrol is a better choice. Not to mention being a much nicer drive.
For instance, I think it would be interesting to compare Audi A3 petrol/diesel sales figures for before and after the new 1.4T petrol engine.
For instance, I think it would be interesting to compare Audi A3 petrol/diesel sales figures for before and after the new 1.4T petrol engine.
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