pilot super sports - Still the tyre to go for?
Discussion
jamieduff1981 said:
Your cars must have some really s
t geometry, or you're both grossly exaggerating.
Not really. I was running 2deg of neg camber at the front of the M135i and my alignment is pretty much spot on with neutral toe (I have access to a rig at work). It's a known feature of that tyre, I still have one in the garage, the sidewalls is very flexible where other HP tyre will be stiffer. It's OK light lateral loads and/or motorway miles but it's a known limitation of that particular tyre, where many ditch them with 4/5mm as the shoulder is fubar.t geometry, or you're both grossly exaggerating.As for grossly exaggerating, I'll post some pics later taken after a mild Ring session, which is not a place where shoulders usually suffer thx to the long cooling opportunities in the straights.
Edited by nickfrog on Thursday 30th June 13:06
I am hoping that these PS4s don't ruin the sidewalls at 4mm!
I guess a softer sidewall would make sense and be causing the weird handling.
I'm not going to say they are bad tyres, they are good, and they do grip very well. In the pissing rain on my return journey from Liverpool to Reading it was absolutely steadfooted and very confidence inspiring. I do like Michelin tyres, I've used them almost exclusively on my motorbikes and my Dad has PS3 on his car and they are good on his car.
As for alignment:
Camber: front -1.9 degrees rear -2.2
Toe: front 0.6 degrees out rear 0.5 degrees out
Castor: not measured at my usual place but my wishbone bushes increase castor by 0.5 static, and up to 1 degree loaded so believe it to be around 8 to 8.2 degrees.
I only have the 2 fronts and I'll get the other 2 tyres to go on the rear next month. Defo not regretting my purchase, however.
I guess a softer sidewall would make sense and be causing the weird handling.
I'm not going to say they are bad tyres, they are good, and they do grip very well. In the pissing rain on my return journey from Liverpool to Reading it was absolutely steadfooted and very confidence inspiring. I do like Michelin tyres, I've used them almost exclusively on my motorbikes and my Dad has PS3 on his car and they are good on his car.
As for alignment:
Camber: front -1.9 degrees rear -2.2
Toe: front 0.6 degrees out rear 0.5 degrees out
Castor: not measured at my usual place but my wishbone bushes increase castor by 0.5 static, and up to 1 degree loaded so believe it to be around 8 to 8.2 degrees.
I only have the 2 fronts and I'll get the other 2 tyres to go on the rear next month. Defo not regretting my purchase, however.
yup 0.6 out on front and 0.5 on rear. Just checked my last alignment (in January, I'm going to get it done again in a couple of weeks).
i had minor inside edge wear on the Vortis on the front, but nothing overly horrific, the inner shoulder was bald and the rest of tyre had 2mm or so - to be expected running the camber and aggressive driving, basically it didn't cause me to replace the tyre any earlier than I would have anyway.
I think the slight toe out helps with overall turn in and "pointyness".
i had minor inside edge wear on the Vortis on the front, but nothing overly horrific, the inner shoulder was bald and the rest of tyre had 2mm or so - to be expected running the camber and aggressive driving, basically it didn't cause me to replace the tyre any earlier than I would have anyway.
I think the slight toe out helps with overall turn in and "pointyness".
nickfrog said:
jamieduff1981 said:
Your cars must have some really st geometry, or you're both grossly exaggerating.
Not really. I was running 2deg of neg camber at the front of the M135i and my alignment is pretty much spot on with neutral toe (I have access to a rig at work). It's a known feature of that tyre, I still have one in the garage, the sidewalls is very flexible where other HP tyre will be stiffer. It's OK light lateral loads and/or motorway miles but it's a known limitation of that particular tyre, where many ditch them with 4/5mm as the shoulder is fubar.t geometry, or you're both grossly exaggerating.As for grossly exaggerating, I'll post some pics later taken after a mild Ring session, which is not a place where shoulders usually suffer thx to the long cooling opportunities in the straights.
I had the PSS's on a V8 Vantage, no issue with the shoulders on that
xjay1337 said:
Just wanted to bump the thread.
I have replaced my Vredestein Vorit's with Michelin Pilot Sport 4.
Initial impressions are they are very good. The car seems less stable (not necessarily a bad thing) but a bit lighter on it's feet.
The Vortis were the best tyre I have tried, beating the Eagle F1 Asy2 by miles as far as I was concerned.
They were fantastic, lasted 32k (including rotation) and did me very well at a completely soaked trackday at Mallory.
So it will take a lot to have me change my opinion the Vorti is one of the best sports oriented road tyres you can get (Evo also happen to agree with me!)
So far I have done a 250 mile drive in mixed weather on mixed roads including some wet B-road blasting, the PS4s seem very grippy but they give an initial feeling of floatiness on turn in which is a bit disconcerting. So you turn in expecting it to feel like it's biting into the tarmac but you get a split second feeling like it's not going to grip.
I suspect this is just due to me being completely in sync with how the Vredesteins responded so I will give it some more time before giving my full review.
Give them more miles. They start getting really good from 1000 miles on. Also, is your Scirocco running aftermarket suspension, non-standard geometry, bigger wheels etc? I've got PS4s on my Edition 30 and they don't feel like that on turn-in at all. They feel superb. Standard suspension on mine.I have replaced my Vredestein Vorit's with Michelin Pilot Sport 4.
Initial impressions are they are very good. The car seems less stable (not necessarily a bad thing) but a bit lighter on it's feet.
The Vortis were the best tyre I have tried, beating the Eagle F1 Asy2 by miles as far as I was concerned.
They were fantastic, lasted 32k (including rotation) and did me very well at a completely soaked trackday at Mallory.
So it will take a lot to have me change my opinion the Vorti is one of the best sports oriented road tyres you can get (Evo also happen to agree with me!)
So far I have done a 250 mile drive in mixed weather on mixed roads including some wet B-road blasting, the PS4s seem very grippy but they give an initial feeling of floatiness on turn in which is a bit disconcerting. So you turn in expecting it to feel like it's biting into the tarmac but you get a split second feeling like it's not going to grip.
I suspect this is just due to me being completely in sync with how the Vredesteins responded so I will give it some more time before giving my full review.
jamieduff1981 said:
Your cars must have some really st geometry, or you're both grossly exaggerating.
Exactly what I was thinking. Assume they are both talking about track days too!t geometry, or you're both grossly exaggerating.Soft sidewalls? Compared to the F1 and nearly every Conti, they have positively brick like sidewalls. Bridgestone (and probably some others) are for folk who like it hard.
SuperchargedVR6 said:
Soft sidewalls? Compared to the F1 and nearly every Conti, they have positively brick like sidewalls.
It's the opposite IME, even compared to F1s. Michelin have had comparatively soft side walls for at least 30 years. I should know, I still have one in the garage, and it's not a TRX 
. It's not a problem per se, more like an idiosyncrasy if you like. There might be a compounding factor with the M135i but my 125i had the same issue and Megane users report exactly the same problem.
Yes track use will highlight this more indeed but only the SS has shown such dramatic shoulder wear on the front IME.
SuperchargedVR6 said:
Give them more miles. They start getting really good from 1000 miles on. Also, is your Scirocco running aftermarket suspension, non-standard geometry, bigger wheels etc? I've got PS4s on my Edition 30 and they don't feel like that on turn-in at all. They feel superb. Standard suspension on mine.
My alignment is above.Suspension mods is full front polybush kit, Superpro Ball Joints, H&R springs, stock DDC dampers.
I have 18x9 OZ Superleggera. Nothing overly fancy.
Re: 4yr old PSS
Now I need to get new tyres and I can no longer wait for PSS and will have to swap the front and rear as I don't want to mix tyres. :-(
rb5er said:
Curious to hear if these were returned.
Yup!. Unfortunately the car has been sat in my garage for 3 months waiting on a new set of PSS and all Michelin keep saying is 8-10 weeks, which they have been saying since December last year!Now I need to get new tyres and I can no longer wait for PSS and will have to swap the front and rear as I don't want to mix tyres. :-(
Want to update further.
Put about 3k of mixed driving. Motorways, B-Road blasts, wet, dry, etc.
Slightly skewing the results but I had Yokohama AD08Rs put on the back as I don't need to use my car as much as I used to anymore.
With the AD08Rs on the back the floaty and weird feeling front end is completely gone. Feedback is pretty good from the PS4s and they do grip and grip and grip. In the rain they feel wonderful giving lots of feedback and confidence which is key I think.
Outright grip I do not think they are as good as the Vred Ultrac Vortis but they are 95% there (you won't notice on the road unless you're being a complete knob). I think the PS4s are slightly better in the wet, but we are again talking a few %.
Wear wise I haven't measured but they "look" to be around 6mm left (basically new still).
I would definitely recommend the PS4 for most road based performance cars. I have not tried them on track as I had track tyres for that.
Put about 3k of mixed driving. Motorways, B-Road blasts, wet, dry, etc.
Slightly skewing the results but I had Yokohama AD08Rs put on the back as I don't need to use my car as much as I used to anymore.
With the AD08Rs on the back the floaty and weird feeling front end is completely gone. Feedback is pretty good from the PS4s and they do grip and grip and grip. In the rain they feel wonderful giving lots of feedback and confidence which is key I think.
Outright grip I do not think they are as good as the Vred Ultrac Vortis but they are 95% there (you won't notice on the road unless you're being a complete knob). I think the PS4s are slightly better in the wet, but we are again talking a few %.
Wear wise I haven't measured but they "look" to be around 6mm left (basically new still).
I would definitely recommend the PS4 for most road based performance cars. I have not tried them on track as I had track tyres for that.
If anyone is looking for an alternative for the PSS, I ran the Sport Contact 6 as a direct comparison on an M3 and made a video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27PcQObpNsQ
They're not quite as good from a dynamic point of view, but they have more grip.
Wear is looking somewhat rapid though :|
They're not quite as good from a dynamic point of view, but they have more grip.
Wear is looking somewhat rapid though :|
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