pilot super sports - Still the tyre to go for?

[isaldiri]

jon- said:

Someone who's actually dared move away from the MC approved P Zeros on a McLaren. What have you gone to, and how are you finding it?

Have had supersports on my 12c 2.5 years ago and cup2s on since last year..... On the road the tyres will not be an issue, only on track with high amounts of undulation (ie Spa/Nurburgring)

[jon-]

Mikey, would love to hear your thoughts once you've a few more miles on them, I'd like to write something on Tyre Reviews about the McLarens and tyres.

isaldiri said:

jon- said:

Someone who's actually dared move away from the MC approved P Zeros on a McLaren. What have you gone to, and how are you finding it?

Have had supersports on my 12c 2.5 years ago and cup2s on since last year..... On the road the tyres will not be an issue, only on track with high amounts of undulation (ie Spa/Nurburgring)

Are you implying the Super Sports / Cup 2s give you issues at Spa compared to the P Zeros or the Rs?

[isaldiri]

jon- said:

Are you implying the Super Sports / Cup 2s give you issues at Spa compared to the P Zeros or the Rs?

Well the supersport was a great tyre (9000 miles, 9 trackdays still had a few mm tread but tyres were very heat cycled), as has the cup2 actually. Miles better than the official Pirellis and if the corsa probably was a bit faster than the supersport, it wears really quickly, isn't anywhere near as good in the rain and on track the pirellis are godawfully pressure sensitive and a right pain to manage over the day. late edit - forgot to add a friend has had corsas on his 12c that had the ever so slightly unnervy tendency to chunk and fail on track very quickly.

However the michelin tyre shoulders are much more square than the MC spec Corsa or Pzero. And in the case of the Cup2 the overall tyre width is a decent bit bigger despite nominally being the same 305/30/20 size than even a Trofeo R which isn't official approved to be run on the 12c (and one would absolutely need spacers on the rear to run them safely on the 12c) and to the point I'd actually probably switch to the 295/30/20 Cup2 when my current tyres wear or heat cycle out. I damaged the rear wheel arch liners at Spa (and a good bit more at the 'ring) running on the intermediate (sport) suspension mode which I had never done previously on the Pirellis. Didn't have the same problems running on the firmest (track) suspension mode after though.

That said, I have had friends who are a good bit quicker who also did manage to wear the wheel arch liners at Spa on the Pirellis as well so I suspect it's a bit of how one takes a corner (primarily how one brakes into the approach of the compression at eau rouge).

Edited by isaldiri on Thursday 16th February 00:23

[mikeyscott]

Great informative video.

I'm in the 17" & 18" camp, so sadly no chance of PS4S

So plan is PS4 on 135i and my wife's new Cooper S which is on RFT

Wonder what BMW will do with likes of M2, transition to MPS4S or stay on PSS

Edited by mikeyscott on Friday 17th February 11:36

[SuperchargedVR6]

xjay1337 said:

SuperchargedVR6 said:

Speaking of soft, I scrubbed my PS4s down to 4mm in less than 4000 miles. They don't last for schitt, but I don't care. I buy tyres for grip, not economy or lifespan.

Really?


I've had mine fitted for 15k.
I have about 3.5mm tread left. I've done 2 trackdays and about 4 or 5 drag days on them. :\

I guess it can vary a lot depending on usage and the car etc

Yup! The joys of powerful FWD. I rotated them to the back, so the remaining tread will get a bit of a break now.

[xjay1337]

Maybe.
My car is 255bhp and 430+ ft lb, but i do regular alignment and have polybushes etc so maybe they're kinder to the tyres

[cib24]

So, I can't get the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S for my car as my tire sizes are 225/45R17 and 245/40R17. Therefore, I am limited to the Pilot Sport 4 (non-S) version of the tire. I am coming from Nankang NS-2Rs which is basically a street legal track day tire and while the grip is immense and they never seem to overheat, the sidewalls are so stiff and the tire compound is so hard that driving on public roads is a real pain in the ass.

I'm trying to decide what my next tire should be as I do a few track days per year but unfortunately live in an apartment and do not have space for a set of spare rims and tires. So, do I move to the Yokohama AD08Rs which are also a street legal track day tire but apparently much more refined than the Nankang's for road driving (and have better wet grip), or do I downgrade (or upgrade in some ways) to a super high performance street tire like the Michelin Pilot Sport 4 and live with the fact that on track they will heat cycle after a couple laps, but in every other situation they might be the better option for driving on public roads?

[Username888]

I used to have Super Sports, - I replaced them with Primacy 3's, - my main priority was low rolling resistance and minimal road noise, - I wouldn't say there was much in them, but the P3s are ever so slightly better

245/45/18

[SuperchargedVR6]

I know, it's bloody annoying all the good tyres start with 19" and take ages to filter down to 18" and 17", if at all.

[Wills2]

mikeyscott said:

Wonder what BMW will do with likes of M2, transition to MPS4S or stay on PSS

Edited by mikeyscott on Friday 17th February 11:36

Depends they offer Conti or Michelin as a factory fit on the M2/3/4 if they have * rated the PS4S they will ship them I guess,

Michelin give you the recommendation of PS4S or MPSS and Cup2 on the website for an M2/M3/M4.

[jon-]

Wills2 said:

mikeyscott said:

Wonder what BMW will do with likes of M2, transition to MPS4S or stay on PSS

Edited by mikeyscott on Friday 17th February 11:36

Depends they offer Conti or Michelin as a factory fit on the M2/3/4 if they have * rated the PS4S they will ship them I guess,

Michelin give you the recommendation of PS4S or MPSS and Cup2 on the website for an M2/M3/M4.

I'd be super surprised if there wasn't a * PS4S for the current gen M cars in the not too distant future, OE approval just takes a while.

[jon-]

cib24 said:

So, I can't get the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S for my car as my tire sizes are 225/45R17 and 245/40R17. Therefore, I am limited to the Pilot Sport 4 (non-S) version of the tire. I am coming from Nankang NS-2Rs which is basically a street legal track day tire and while the grip is immense and they never seem to overheat, the sidewalls are so stiff and the tire compound is so hard that driving on public roads is a real pain in the ass.

I'm trying to decide what my next tire should be as I do a few track days per year but unfortunately live in an apartment and do not have space for a set of spare rims and tires. So, do I move to the Yokohama AD08Rs which are also a street legal track day tire but apparently much more refined than the Nankang's for road driving (and have better wet grip), or do I downgrade (or upgrade in some ways) to a super high performance street tire like the Michelin Pilot Sport 4 and live with the fact that on track they will heat cycle after a couple laps, but in every other situation they might be the better option for driving on public roads?

I'd be surprised if the PS4 overheated after just a couple of laps on track, but you're right, they won't feel nearly as good as the Nankang.

There's no magic answer for the one, a sporty feel and comfort are (almost) totally opposing qualities.

I fear you'll find the AD08Rs of a similar ilk to the Nankangs (never driven on the NS2R so that's an assumption.) In your situation I'd be looking into something like the Yokohama Advan V105S as they're quite hard sidewalled for a modern sports tyre, or looking at a previous generation tyre such as the Vredestein Ultrac Sessanta which is known for being quite stiff, but not in the realms of a track specific tyre.

[xjay1337]

For track daily rubber then look at vredestien ultrac vortis. Nice responsive tyre and handle great in all conditions.
8/10 as good as ps4 but 12/10 on track in comparison.

Ps4 are great, if you are pushing on track they dont overheat as such but are out of their comfort zones.
Ad08r are good on track but again at compromise to daily noise (they are fairly loud nothing compared to some tyres though) and also ad08r suck in wet.

Ns2r is one trick pony. Not good in wet.
Ad08r not brilliant but notably better in the wet. Not much in it in the dry.


All first hand experience ^

[RobPhoboS]

I emailed Michelin and they said they aren't making smaller sizes for the PS4S, so it's 19"+ FFS.

Only in December I bought a new front set of PSS, and my rears will need replacing in a couple of months at a push.
And of course I can't find my size now, which I hadn't foreseen happening quite soo quickly.

So now it's a conundrum for me. I hate mixing tyres, I might get lucky and find a set but I'll still be in the same situation next year as the fronts last some time usually for me. Of course I could flog them and replace all at the same time if that's the case.

Now I'm looking at PS4, or F1 A3.
I'm also tracking the 350z frequently this year, it's not used for commuting just for fun.

Any more suggestions would be lovely jubbly.

[theboss]

Have a set of PS4S being delivered shortly for my M5 having ran MPSS in the past, so will be interesting to see how they fare. I've been a big fan of MPSS especially when I've seen over 20k out of rears.

[Wills2]

jon- said:

Wills2 said:

mikeyscott said:

Wonder what BMW will do with likes of M2, transition to MPS4S or stay on PSS

Edited by mikeyscott on Friday 17th February 11:36

Depends they offer Conti or Michelin as a factory fit on the M2/3/4 if they have * rated the PS4S they will ship them I guess,

Michelin give you the recommendation of PS4S or MPSS and Cup2 on the website for an M2/M3/M4.

I'd be super surprised if there wasn't a * PS4S for the current gen M cars in the not too distant future, OE approval just takes a while.

At the moment you can't get the fronts in the right load rating as the * tyres currently only 96Y available rather than 92Y.

I don't need to change right now as I have my winters on and a have set of 5p with 4mm in the garage, but would like to try the PS4S if they do a * version.

[giblet]

Looks like I'll have to go for a set of MPSS for my Evo. It has some AD08s on the moment that are close to the wear indicators and frankly they aren't that great in the wet. The PS4S aren't available in 18" so my options are Cup 2, MPSS, AD08R (apparently better than the 08 in the wet), PS4 or CSC5.

Car is used as a daily but will have occasional track use. Hmmm

[RobPhoboS]

giblet said:

Car is used as a daily but will have occasional track use. Hmmm

As I mentioned above, quite a similar one as yourself.
Since I have new PSS on the front, I'll either find a pair for the rear (if lucky), or just put PS4 on them.

[giblet]

RobPhoboS said:

As I mentioned above, quite a similar one as yourself.
Since I have new PSS on the front, I'll either find a pair for the rear (if lucky), or just put PS4 on them.

Sorry, I missed your post. I guess it's a set of PSS for me then, the CSC6 seem to be better overall in the wet but either will be superior to my worn set of AD08. Pity Costco don't seem to do deals on Michelin tyres anymore.

[RobPhoboS]

giblet said:

Sorry, I missed your post. I guess it's a set of PSS for me then, the CSC6 seem to be better overall in the wet but either will be superior to my worn set of AD08. Pity Costco don't seem to do deals on Michelin tyres anymore.

The trouble is you won't be able to get them again as it's being phased out.
In my case the rear's (245 45 R18) aren't being made now, so it's whatever stock I can find, or going for 235 45 R18.
So if you get a puncture or something, you might be stuffed for finding a replacement later down the line.

Michelin stated that the PS4 is a midlife update to the PSS - but I'm not sure about the truth of that.