300bhp per tonne

[GroundEffect]

kambites said:

GroundEffect said:

TORQUE IS WHAT THE ENGINE IS DOING.
POWER IS A MEASURE OF TORQUE.

I'd amend, or possibly extend, that to be:

Torque is what the engine is doing
Power is a modification of that figure to make it have some direct bearing on what's happening at the hubs and tyre contact patch.

Let's not complicate things. That adds too many other variables in to it.

[Baryonyx]

In summary, you'll not find many cars that make 300bhp per tonne, but you won't struggle to find motorbikes that do.

[Hol]

Baryonyx said:

In summary, you'll not find many cars that make 300bhp per tonne, but you won't struggle to find motorbikes that do.

Fixed that for you as the original question always was/still is about 300bhp/ton cars - not motorbikes.

[otolith]

Baryonyx said:

In summary, you'll not find many cars that make 300bhp per tonne, but you won't struggle to find motorbikes that do.

Not much help if one has no interest in bikes.

[anonymous-user]

Baryonyx said:

In summary, you'll not find many cars that make 300bhp per tonne, but you won't struggle to find motorbikes that do.

Motorcycles, pfft

NASA said:

Standing about the same height as the Statue of Liberty but weighing three times as much, the two white Solid Rocket Boosters (SRBs) ignite in anger and push out a combined 6.6 million pounds of thrust (equivalent to 44 million horsepower). At 4.4 million pounds, the entire space shuttle stack lifts off with a power-to-weight ratio of about 18.4 horsepower per pound.

Anyway, back OT a 400HP/ton Caterham is very quick but only to a point. A 911 turbo made mine look a bit daft over a certain speed, not to mention as soon as the conditions are wet you don't have a hope of getting the power down. Power to weight is only half the story, how much useable power is available to you at any given time is the real measure of performance.

[kambites]

GroundEffect said:

kambites said:

GroundEffect said:

TORQUE IS WHAT THE ENGINE IS DOING.
POWER IS A MEASURE OF TORQUE.

I'd amend, or possibly extend, that to be:

Torque is what the engine is doing
Power is a modification of that figure to make it have some direct bearing on what's happening at the hubs and tyre contact patch.

Let's not complicate things. That adds too many other variables in to it.

I was just making that point that flywheel torque in isolation is not in any way linked to vehicle performance because there is something between the engine and the wheels which can arbitrarily change the torque in either direction. Power is absolute throughout the drive train, which is why in isolation it's the more useful metric.

Hub torque is arguably easier to work with than either but is harder to work out.

Edited by kambites on Thursday 3rd September 11:50

[Baryonyx]

otolith said:

Not much help if one has no interest in bikes.

This being Pistonheads though, I would expect the average PH'er to have an interest in bikes. After all, they're fast and fun and that's what we like, right?

[jhoneyball]

Real fun starts at 800bhp/ton. Gets very exciting at 1200bhp/ton.

[ORD]

jhoneyball said:

Real fun starts at 800bhp/ton. Gets very exciting at 1200bhp/ton.

Wimp. Anything less than the power of the sun attached a pushbike is utterly pathetic.

[otolith]

Baryonyx said:

This being Pistonheads though, I would expect the average PH'er to have an interest in bikes. After all, they're fast and fun and that's what we like, right?

So are jetskis, speed boats and light aircraft, but none of them are things I would consider owning.

[Baryonyx]

otolith said:

So are jetskis, speed boats and light aircraft, but none of them are things I would consider owning.

Obviously not, you can't really use those every day unless you live in the Carribean and commute from island to island. Apples to oranges, whereas motorbikes and cars are both roadgoing and do roughly the same thing, just bikes don't struggle to break 300bhp per tonne, whereas cars evidently do. Perhaps that's why they say a sports bike will recalibrate your perception of 'fast.

[ORD]

Baryonyx said:

Obviously not, you can't really use those every day unless you live in the Carribean and commute from island to island. Apples to oranges, whereas motorbikes and cars are both roadgoing and do roughly the same thing, just bikes don't struggle to break 300bhp per tonne, whereas cars evidently do. Perhaps that's why they say a sports bike will recalibrate your perception of 'fast.

And your perception of "pointless".

[CaptainSensib1e]

Thread bump!

I think it's pretty fair to say that 300bhp/tonne is much more accessible these days, but I'd still say it's more than enough for public roads.

Any more is pretty pointless unless you are on track.

[The spinner of plates]

I had a 300bhp per tonne Caterham - it was plenty.

[Terminator X]

M5C perhaps extreme but is over 350hp/t.

TX.

[ddom]

CaptainSensib1e said:

Thread bump!

I think it's pretty fair to say that 300bhp/tonne is much more accessible these days, but I'd still say it's more than enough for public roads.

Any more is pretty pointless unless you are on track.

Should read, anything more than ‘x’ is too much if you require ‘y’

/end

Edited by ddom on Thursday 2nd July 21:08

[Wills2]

Terminator X said:

M5C perhaps extreme but is over 350hp/t.

TX.

At 1930kg (EU) and 617bhp it's less than 320bhp/tonne, even if you want to twist a bit and use the DIN weight of 1855kg (sans the 75kg of the driver) and use ps @ 625 you get 337ps/tonne.

[Terminator X]

Wills2 said:

Terminator X said:

M5C perhaps extreme but is over 350hp/t.

TX.

At 1930kg (EU) and 617bhp it's less than 320bhp/tonne, even if you want to twist a bit and use the DIN weight of 1855kg (sans the 75kg of the driver) and use ps @ 625 you get 337ps/tonne.

659 on R/Road as standard and 1850kg. I'm sure we call all find umpteen lighter or heavier weights for any car if we felt like it

TX.

[jjones]

Marine Turbo Technologies (production) MTT 420RR

With a 100kg rider it still boasts over 1284bhp / tonne

[Baldchap]

Even my middleweight bike makes 816bhp/ton.

Can't imagine being precious about 300/ton.

That's why bike acceleration is literally unimaginable for most car drivers.