300bhp per tonne
Discussion
thebraketester said:
Baldchap said:
Even my middleweight bike makes 816bhp/ton.
Can't imagine being precious about 300/ton.
That's why bike acceleration is literally unimaginable for most car drivers.
Yeah but at least in a 300bhp/ton car you stand a fair chance of survival. Can't imagine being precious about 300/ton.
That's why bike acceleration is literally unimaginable for most car drivers.
Baldchap said:
Even my middleweight bike makes 816bhp/ton.
Can't imagine being precious about 300/ton.
That's why bike acceleration is literally unimaginable for most car drivers.
Then it comes to a corner, and it’s wet, and it’s cold. Can't imagine being precious about 300/ton.
That's why bike acceleration is literally unimaginable for most car drivers.
That’s why all that’s important to most summer bikers is 0-100 in a straight line
MyV10BarksAndBites said:
tattietamson said:
hornetrider said:
Who cares about some arbitrary figure of no significance?
Yes, agree. Figures don`t often tell the full story.
Jeez!!!!If you're not interested in the topic don't read and don't post. Some people!
E36Dan said:
still haven't owned anything 300/tonne. Most around 250/tonne. It's enough 
Same here, 250bhp/tonne is easily enough to scare myself. 300bhp/tonne plus must feel nuts.kambites said:
Baldchap said:
Even my middleweight bike makes 816bhp/ton.
And what does that drop to when you're sitting on it? 
Weight of bike: 175kg
Weight of average bloke: 80kg
Total weight: 255kg
Power: 116bhp
power to weight of bike along: 663bhp/tonne
power to weight with rider: 455bhp/tonne
Figures from: https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/reviews/bike...
To compare with a fun/track car, my Lotus 2-Eleven was 260bhp and weighed 670kg. That was 388bhp tonne on its own and 347bhp/tonne with an average bloke driving it.
It's long been the case though that on average, bikes have huge straight line performance with slow cornering and braking, and cars are the opposite. Obviously there are exceptions to this rule.
According to the list my Cerbera 4.5 had 381bhp/tonne and I can't see me ever getting a car with more than that in fairness. It did feel nice and quick and it felt pretty light too...especially at high speed!
I will always remember how heavy I thought the Z4M Roadster was in comparison that I had straight after it. The E92 M3 I then had after that was a total heavyweight in comparison for sure. Weight certainly alters the driving experience I reckon.
I will always remember how heavy I thought the Z4M Roadster was in comparison that I had straight after it. The E92 M3 I then had after that was a total heavyweight in comparison for sure. Weight certainly alters the driving experience I reckon.
cerb4.5lee said:
According to the list my Cerbera 4.5 had 381bhp/tonne and I can't see me ever getting a car with more than that in fairness. It did feel nice and quick and it felt pretty light too...especially at high speed!
I will always remember how heavy I thought the Z4M Roadster was in comparison that I had straight after it. The E92 M3 I then had after that was a total heavyweight in comparison for sure. Weight certainly alters the driving experience I reckon.
I will always remember how heavy I thought the Z4M Roadster was in comparison that I had straight after it. The E92 M3 I then had after that was a total heavyweight in comparison for sure. Weight certainly alters the driving experience I reckon.
Of all the cars I've owned and driven, weight is the single biggest factor in how they drive. Straight line performance is a very subjective thing, and depends on the situation, but weight you feel everywhere all the time. Back on topic, the other thing worth mentioning is that the lighter a car is, the easier it is to attain a decent power to weight ratio. Caterhams for example come in all flavours from 200bhp/tonne right up to over 500, the latter of which is achieved with about 230-250bhp, which isn't that hard to extract from a common 2 litre-ish 4cyl engine. For a heavier car though, like an M3 at 1600kg, big power to weight ratios become incredibly expensive to attain because you just need so much power; in the case of 1600kg it would be 800bhp to make 500bhp/tonne! Even 300bhp/tonne from such a car needs 480bhp. Of course, once you start needing much more than 200bhp-250bhp out of an engine, you're talking significantly bigger and heavier engines, which means you need even more power. The Caterham R500 k series that made 230bhp didn't really weigh much more than the engines in lesser models.
Edited by RobM77 on Friday 3rd July 13:04
otolith said:
The odd thing is that the 350Z my wife used to have was not much heavier than the Z4M she replaced it with, but subjectively the Nissan felt much heavier. Possibly weight distribution.
It may have been the steering? I've not driven a Z4M's hPAS system, but my Z4C's ePAS was very over-assisted and light. In contrast, the 350Z's steering is really meaty in weighting (although disappointingly, not much feel!). The other possibility is different weighing standards - don't most German manufacturers quote their cars' weights with people and luggage? A quick search online reveals that most owners seem to weigh their cars as much lighter than BMW are quoting.RobM77 said:
otolith said:
The odd thing is that the 350Z my wife used to have was not much heavier than the Z4M she replaced it with, but subjectively the Nissan felt much heavier. Possibly weight distribution.
It may have been the steering? I've not driven a Z4M's hPAS system, but my Z4C's ePAS was very over-assisted and light. In contrast, the 350Z's steering is really meaty in weighting (although disappointingly, not much feel!). The other possibility is different weighing standards - don't most German manufacturers quote their cars' weights with people and luggage? A quick search online reveals that most owners seem to weigh their cars as much lighter than BMW are quoting.otolith said:
RobM77 said:
otolith said:
The odd thing is that the 350Z my wife used to have was not much heavier than the Z4M she replaced it with, but subjectively the Nissan felt much heavier. Possibly weight distribution.
It may have been the steering? I've not driven a Z4M's hPAS system, but my Z4C's ePAS was very over-assisted and light. In contrast, the 350Z's steering is really meaty in weighting (although disappointingly, not much feel!). The other possibility is different weighing standards - don't most German manufacturers quote their cars' weights with people and luggage? A quick search online reveals that most owners seem to weigh their cars as much lighter than BMW are quoting.The 350Z/370Z are definitely more cruisy/laid back in nature in comparison to the Z4M I reckon. The Z4M feels more up and at it in a good way for me.
otolith said:
RobM77 said:
otolith said:
The odd thing is that the 350Z my wife used to have was not much heavier than the Z4M she replaced it with, but subjectively the Nissan felt much heavier. Possibly weight distribution.
It may have been the steering? I've not driven a Z4M's hPAS system, but my Z4C's ePAS was very over-assisted and light. In contrast, the 350Z's steering is really meaty in weighting (although disappointingly, not much feel!). The other possibility is different weighing standards - don't most German manufacturers quote their cars' weights with people and luggage? A quick search online reveals that most owners seem to weigh their cars as much lighter than BMW are quoting.I do agree, the 350Z does feel like a big heavy car, and the Z4 quite light and nimble. I strongly suspect it is actually the kerbweights differing by more than the book figures suggest, as stated above. There are different standards for kerbweight.
I think about 200bhp/tonne is about as much as you can realistically use regularly-ish on the road - my old E36 M3 Evo (195bhp/tonne) and Chimaera 400 (probably about the same, TVR bhp figures and all that) were both pretty spot on in that regard.
PS - Always unsure on here as to why the bike/car debate is so polarising. Most bikers are also car drivers, and as said we're all "mode of transport enthusiasts" or however you want to frame it
PS - Always unsure on here as to why the bike/car debate is so polarising. Most bikers are also car drivers, and as said we're all "mode of transport enthusiasts" or however you want to frame it
_Neal_ said:
PS - Always unsure on here as to why the bike/car debate is so polarising. Most bikers are also car drivers, and as said we're all "mode of transport enthusiasts" or however you want to frame it
This always baffles me a bit too. Pretty much every motorbike will be exciting to ride, whereas not many cars are really exciting to drive though. _Neal_ said:
I think about 200bhp/tonne is about as much as you can realistically use regularly-ish on the road - my old E36 M3 Evo (195bhp/tonne) and Chimaera 400 (probably about the same, TVR bhp figures and all that) were both pretty spot on in that regard.
PS - Always unsure on here as to why the bike/car debate is so polarising. Most bikers are also car drivers, and as said we're all "mode of transport enthusiasts" or however you want to frame it
I've owned two >500 BHP per tonne cars and drove them very happily on the road. It's just a case of where and when. They were neither much use for a Tesco run mind.PS - Always unsure on here as to why the bike/car debate is so polarising. Most bikers are also car drivers, and as said we're all "mode of transport enthusiasts" or however you want to frame it
Much fun though.
RobM77 said:
I do agree, the 350Z does feel like a big heavy car, and the Z4 quite light and nimble. I strongly suspect it is actually the kerbweights differing by more than the book figures suggest, as stated above. There are different standards for kerbweight.
Would be interesting to see some real life weights. I suspect that it's more about the distribution of the weight and the setup, but it's just a suspicion.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff