Best smoker barges 1-5 large [Vol 9]

[TheLordJohn]

E65Ross said:

You seemingly forgot the 535i derin, which bridges the performance gap a little....

All too briefly, I owned an E38 735i.
Lovely, lovely motor.
Made 50% more than I paid and declared the faults which weren't declared to me when I bought it!
I must say, with sport mode engaged it was no slouch at all. Acceleration or top end.
I'd own another in a heart beat.
Someone has touched on the subject on an E63 readers cars thread, the fuel economy on BMW's always surprises me.
My E36 M3 would get a calculated 31 MPG sat at a genuine 85 on cruise control.
Hell of a motor.

[derin100]

E65Ross said:

derin100 said:

Emeye said:

It appears the E34 is the thread car of the moment.

I've just made contact with a guy selling a N reg 525i auto, but looking at the MOT history it seems to have been run on a budget for the last 6 years Lots of advisories coming up year after year, many repeated. Shame.

Also, this talk of the 520 being slow got me thinking that both my 525s with auto boxes were not exactly rocket ships, though strangely my 525 touring seemed a bit quicker.

I have never driven any other E34 engine than the later 525 though, and mine were L and M reg which I think means they were 24v?

How does the 540 compare Derin?

The 540iA (this is based on my experience of the one I sold just last week...not the one I've just bought) feels like a 525iA really. The same solid feeling...just much, much faster if you put your foot down. 0-62mph in 6.8 secs and a (limited) top-speed of 155mph is still a fast car even 20 years on in my book.

The 24V 525s do have a good, efficient engine but to get their best speed performance they do have to be opened-up and held at high revs. Then they're quite a quick car.

However, I did have an older, manual and really low spec (so lighter, I guess) 530i M30 12V 6-cylinder a few years ago and that actually felt much faster than I ever would have expected.

It's strange what you say about your 525s because the handbook would suggest that the Touring should have felt slower than your saloons??? 0-62 is quoted as 9.5secs for the auto saloon and 9.9secs for the Touring; top speeds are 140 and 135 mph respectively.. I guess there will always be individual car variation?

But those figures also show how big the gap is with the 540i! I don't know why they made such a big gap between everything else and the 540i because even the V8 530i is way, way behind with a 0-62 a full 2 seconds behind the 540i at 8.8 secs.

If anyone was concerned that the 520i was too slow then they should see the figures for the real slouch of the bunch...the 525td Auto Touring. 0-62 at 14.7 secs...a full second behind a 518i Auto...2.5 secs behind a manual 518i plus a 9 mph slower top speed of only 114 mph.

You seemingly forgot the 535i derin, which bridges the performance gap a little....

Not really Ross. The figures I was quoting was for the later 530i V8 and even that has more power than the older 535i (which is a 6-cylinder M30 engined car). That is 211bhp vs 218 bhp.

This is the mistake people seem to make and I had this 'discussion' elsewhere on PH a few years ago.

People seem to assume that a 535i is somewhere in the same league as a 540i. It is nowhere near it! The 540i has a third as much power again. Then they try to suggest (or assume) that the power advantage is lost or blunted because they intuitively assume that the V8 engine itself is heavier. Well, it is...but by only 3kg...that's one and a half bags of sugar heavier!

At that time, someone who was obviously sitting at the back of his 'O'-Level Physics classes, couldn't grasp that a standard BMW factory 540i with 286bhp, is a faster car even than an Alpina B10 3.5 with 254 bhp. He started going on about "hotter cams in the Alpina etc blah blah". What's that got to do with it? The "hotter cams etc" in the Alpina are to make it deliver more power c.f. a standard M30 3.5L. But that "more power" still isn't 286 bhp! The ultimately simple and fundamental concept of more power, in the same car, couldn't be grasped!

[Patrick Bateman]

derin100 said:

Not really Ross. The figures I was quoting was for the later 530i V8 and even that has more power than the older 535i (which is a 6-cylinder M30 engined car). That is 211bhp vs 218 bhp.

This is the mistake people seem to make and I had this 'discussion' elsewhere on PH a few years ago.

People seem to assume that a 535i is somewhere in the same league as a 540i. It is nowhere near it! The 540i has a third as much power again. Then they try to suggest (or assume) that the power advantage is lost or blunted because they intuitively assume that the V8 engine itself is heavier. Well, it is...but by only 3kg...that's one and a half bags of sugar heavier!

At that time, someone who was obviously sitting at the back of his 'O'-Level Physics classes, couldn't grasp that a standard BMW factory 540i with 286bhp, is a faster car even than an Alpina B10 3.5 with 254 bhp. He started going on about "hotter cams in the Alpina etc blah blah". What's that got to do with it? The "hotter cams etc" in the Alpina are to make it deliver more power c.f. a standard M30 3.5L. But that "more power" still isn't 286 bhp! The ultimately simple and fundamental concept of more power, in the same car, couldn't be grasped!

That sounds magnificently Partridge-esque.

[derin100]

E65Ross said:

derin100 said:

Emeye said:

It appears the E34 is the thread car of the moment.

I've just made contact with a guy selling a N reg 525i auto, but looking at the MOT history it seems to have been run on a budget for the last 6 years Lots of advisories coming up year after year, many repeated. Shame.

Also, this talk of the 520 being slow got me thinking that both my 525s with auto boxes were not exactly rocket ships, though strangely my 525 touring seemed a bit quicker.

I have never driven any other E34 engine than the later 525 though, and mine were L and M reg which I think means they were 24v?

How does the 540 compare Derin?

The 540iA (this is based on my experience of the one I sold just last week...not the one I've just bought) feels like a 525iA really. The same solid feeling...just much, much faster if you put your foot down. 0-62mph in 6.8 secs and a (limited) top-speed of 155mph is still a fast car even 20 years on in my book.

The 24V 525s do have a good, efficient engine but to get their best speed performance they do have to be opened-up and held at high revs. Then they're quite a quick car.

However, I did have an older, manual and really low spec (so lighter, I guess) 530i M30 12V 6-cylinder a few years ago and that actually felt much faster than I ever would have expected.

It's strange what you say about your 525s because the handbook would suggest that the Touring should have felt slower than your saloons??? 0-62 is quoted as 9.5secs for the auto saloon and 9.9secs for the Touring; top speeds are 140 and 135 mph respectively.. I guess there will always be individual car variation?

But those figures also show how big the gap is with the 540i! I don't know why they made such a big gap between everything else and the 540i because even the V8 530i is way, way behind with a 0-62 a full 2 seconds behind the 540i at 8.8 secs.

If anyone was concerned that the 520i was too slow then they should see the figures for the real slouch of the bunch...the 525td Auto Touring. 0-62 at 14.7 secs...a full second behind a 518i Auto...2.5 secs behind a manual 518i plus a 9 mph slower top speed of only 114 mph.

You seemingly forgot the 535i derin, which bridges the performance gap a little....

Not really Ross. The figures I was quoting was for the later 530i V8 and even that has more power than the older 535i (which is a 6-cylinder M30 engined car). That is 211bhp vs 218 bhp.

This is the mistake people seem to make and I had this 'discussion' elsewhere on PH a few years ago.

People seem to assume that a 535i is somewhere in the same league as a 540i. It is nowhere near it! The 540i has a third as much power again. Then they try to suggest (or assume) that the power advantage is lost or blunted because they intuitively assume that the V8 engine itself is heavier. Well, it is...but by only 3kg...that's one and a half bags of sugar heavier!

At that time, someone who was obviously sitting at the back of his 'O'-Level Physics classes, couldn't grasp that a standard BMW factory 540i with 286bhp, is a faster car even than an Alpina B10 3.5 with 254 bhp. He started going on about "hotter cams in the Alpina etc blah blah". What's that got to do with it? The "hotter cams etc" in the Alpina are to make it deliver more power c.f. a standard M30 3.5L. But that "more power" still isn't 286 bhp! The ultimately simple and fundamental concept of more power, in the same car, couldn't be grasped!

[0a]

I want a 535 purely because it sits in my masterplan:

Hot hatch - 4 cylinder
Saloon - straight 6
Roadster - v8
Continent crushing mega coupe - v12.

I posted a whole load of e34 535s a month or so ago, and couldn't find one when I looked today

[0a]

E24man said:

I'm on my third E34 Touring; 4.0 then 3.8 and now 4.6. Fabulously solid machines and easy enough to fix yourself.

4.6? You what?!

Edit - looked at your profile, I didn't know such a thing existed. Do you have a thread anywhere? What a collection of alpinas you have owned, proper ones - not these tuned 4 cylinder diesel ones we see now where alpina is more of a trim level.

Edited by 0a on Sunday 14th February 22:05

[derin100]

0a said:

I want a 535 purely because it sits in my masterplan:

Hot hatch - 4 cylinder
Saloon - straight 6
Roadster - v8
Continent crushing mega coupe - v12.

I posted a whole load of e34 535s a month or so ago, and couldn't find one when I looked today

Well, there is if you go beyond thread budget, Oa:

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C692971

[0a]

derin100 said:

Well, there is if you go beyond thread budget, Oa:

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C692971

P'ah no leather. Wouldn't take it on if you paid me

I'd like to know the story behind that... So few miles on such a capable but "non special" (in relative terms to cars bought for museums etc) car.

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Not sure if we have had this one yet.

e38 735I - £1695 Ono




http://retrorides.proboards.com/thread/186133/1998...

[derin100]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Not sure if we have had this one yet.

e38 735I - £1695 Ono




http://retrorides.proboards.com/thread/186133/1998...

That looks like a bargain really. The wheels and tyres are already worth a large proportion of the asking price!

[derin100]

0a said:

derin100 said:

Well, there is if you go beyond thread budget, Oa:

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C692971

P'ah no leather. Wouldn't take it on if you paid me

I'd like to know the story behind that... So few miles on such a capable but "non special" (in relative terms to cars bought for museums etc) car.

Yes, it's weird that one.

Very nice though. Would have to be used extremely sparingly now.

[derin100]

0a said:

E24man said:

I'm on my third E34 Touring; 4.0 then 3.8 and now 4.6. Fabulously solid machines and easy enough to fix yourself.

4.6? You what?!

Edit - looked at your profile, I didn't know such a thing existed. Do you have a thread anywhere? What a collection of alpinas you have owned, proper ones - not these tuned 4 cylinder diesel ones we see now where alpina is more of a trim level.

Edited by 0a on Sunday 14th February 22:05

Oh yes...such a thing does very much exist! And it's one of those 'Holy Grail' type Alpinas.

If someone was saying to me that (or a B10 Bi-Turbo E34) was faster than a factory E34 540i then "yes" one would have to bow! Just awesome!

[derin100]

O/T but whilst we'd mentioned the E34 at KGF I decided to browse the rest of his website...

Now it might be me missing something here because 'back in the day' I was never a fan of such stuff but...

That E34 he has does have almost vanishingly low mileage but this is "low" but not vanishingly so; it's performance figures aren't that devastating even when compared with my bog-standard E34 540i; Lord knows it's build quality won't match it.I know what a Sierra interior is like and it's horrible and flimsy...and yet £65,000 ?!

http://www.kgfclassiccars.co.uk/details.php?cid=39...

[derin100]

Whilst I'm O/T and on the subject of Fords, there seems to have been a real surge in Ford-Love of late. I'm thinking of cars from my youth and that I just don't get. Surely, 'Life on Mars' can't be solely responsible?

I mean, I think of all Ford Granadas this was one of the better ones but for me it's still just a car that the 'Geezers' with Sovereign rings, Embassy Number 1 fags and sheep-skin coats that my late Dad used to do deals with down Brick Lane, when he used to take me there every Sunday morning in the late '70s used to drive?

£8000...reserve still not met?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MK1-Ford-Granada-Coupe-3...

[dscam]

derin100 said:

O/T but whilst we'd mentioned the E34 at KGF I decided to browse the rest of his website...

Now it might be me missing something here because 'back in the day' I was never a fan of such stuff but...

That E34 he has does have almost vanishingly low mileage but this is "low" but not vanishingly so; it's performance figures aren't that devastating even when compared with my bog-standard E34 540i; Lord knows it's build quality won't match it.I know what a Sierra interior is like and it's horrible and flimsy...and yet £65,000 ?!

http://www.kgfclassiccars.co.uk/details.php?cid=39...

That's some of the most eclectic stock I've seen in a while. £65k for an RS Sierra is remarkable but so is over £3.5k for an Escort MK3 1.3! I wonder also who couldn't resist the Volvo 460 GLE...

The E34 love is good to see on the thread and I look forward to your work on the 540i. The link posted to the M5 above is interesting; looks to be a clean car and the System I 'turbine' wheels are perfectly period however it's still not a lot of money in comparison to the E30 M3 (or some E36's). Is it really down to perceived running costs or racing history?

[E24man]

derin100 said:

0a said:

E24man said:

I'm on my third E34 Touring; 4.0 then 3.8 and now 4.6. Fabulously solid machines and easy enough to fix yourself.

4.6? You what?!

Edit - looked at your profile, I didn't know such a thing existed. Do you have a thread anywhere? What a collection of alpinas you have owned, proper ones - not these tuned 4 cylinder diesel ones we see now where alpina is more of a trim level.

Edited by 0a on Sunday 14th February 22:05

Oh yes...such a thing does very much exist! And it's one of those 'Holy Grail' type Alpinas.

If someone was saying to me that (or a B10 Bi-Turbo E34) was faster than a factory E34 540i then "yes" one would have to bow! Just awesome!

Oa, I found out about E34 B10 4.6 cars from a now 15 year old thread asking if such a thing ever existed, and hidden in the thread was a nugget that just one car, a Touring, was made in rhd.

I waited silently for years hoping it would surface and then it did but it needed some work.

The stated power output from Alpina for the B10 4.6 cars was 340bhp@5700rpm and 354lb/ft@3900rpm with a quoted 0-62mph of 6.1-6.3 seconds. For comparison the E34 3.8 M5 which was declared at 340bhp@6900rpm and 295lb/ft@4750rpm and the B10 BiTurbo at 360bhp@6000rpm and 384lb/ft@4000rpm. You can see the big V8 does all its work much lower down the rev range and can produce some quite interesting results when you try to match the cars up...... the red car is the B10 4.6.

Derin, in terms of outright performance the pecking order is fairly clear but I believe the 535i still holds a high position as being the most easy to maintain of all the quicker E34 cars and easily has the most reliable powerplant of them all - an M30 engine will enerally live twice the lifetime of the car is dropped into. Had I not needed the all round ability of the Touring I think a 535i or B10 3.5 would have quite happily satisfied my E34 neediness; the fact that I started off down the 540i/6 route was due to there being no E34 535i Tourings ever made.

[derin100]

Yes, there is no doubt that the M30 engine is an absolute paragon of an engine. There are few engines that can claim to have been designed in the 1960s and yet were still cutting the mustard well into the 1990s. And I have had and enjoyed it in many cars, over many years.

But...as a whole package...for people to suggest that an early E34 535i matches a late 540i, as some did to the person who bought my 540i, prior to her buying it, just makes absolutely no sense to me.

Yes, some of us can work on an M30 engine ourselves to some extent but not an M60/62 however, for the majority of people the concept of being able to work on either engine is so remote that it doesn't even come into the equation for them.

[0a]

Utterly stunning e24man - I will investigate further tomorrow!. In the meantime, I am very jealous indeed!

[matthias73]

Is it just me that finds the wood in e34 era cars completely naff? Mercs had it as well and it just reminds me of cheap takeaway restaurant tables or budget ferries.

That alpina would look much better with extended leather instead, imo

[E24man]

derin100 said:

E34 M30 stuff..

Again, I completely agree.

matthias73 said:

Is it just me that finds the wood in e34 era cars completely naff? Mercs had it as well and it just reminds me of cheap takeaway restaurant tables or budget ferries.

That alpina would look much better with extended leather instead, imo

The use of timber in any car later than the 1960's can legitimately be questioned for very good reasons.....but, the designers and manufacturers still use it as a trim product in a car. Whether this is for a more upmarket, opulent feel or whether it is simply a function of breaking up the eye-line view from the seats is a question for them to answer.

In an E34 however it does serve a purpose where there is no colour contrast or difference between the upper and lower dash sections. Both my 540i and M5 had all black interiors, the M5 with extended leather and no wood and the 540i with timber, and I honestly preferred the timbered 540i instead of the unrelenting black doom of the M5. BMW did offer extended leather and timber as this ultramarine and silver Elekta M5 Touring shows....



But beware of too much colour and contrast in an E34 as this rather special Amethyst/champagne and poplar Individual M5 Touring shows....



The E34 M5 L.E. cars were equally marmite on the eyes....



Or....



The trend for covering interior wood trim in fake carbon fibre has almost passed but should I choose to change the E34 Alpina's interior timber I think I would just replace it with another wood effect..... high gloss piano black.