RE: Clio RenaultSport 220 Trophy on Track
Discussion
nickfrog said:
BioSkunk said:
@ nickfrog: check EVO Mag track test at Bedford, TopGear's test at Knockhill, Motorsport Magazine FR at Magny-Course, etc... at Llandlow AE did not even dare to publish the Fiesta's laptime. it was that much slower than the Clio Trophy and the Pug 208 Gti by PS. These are just simply closer to the Megane Trophy's lap times than to the Fiesta's. The difference is huge. Sorry, but for the moment there is no other track test only these ones. But these are showing the same result. For your reference, the Clio trophy is now within a second to the mighty Focus RS500 on tracks. And if you don't want to belive it you can check the same resources.
I can't find any of that stuff - any links ?nickfrog said:
nickfrog said:
BioSkunk said:
@ nickfrog: check EVO Mag track test at Bedford, TopGear's test at Knockhill, Motorsport Magazine FR at Magny-Course, etc... at Llandlow AE did not even dare to publish the Fiesta's laptime. it was that much slower than the Clio Trophy and the Pug 208 Gti by PS. These are just simply closer to the Megane Trophy's lap times than to the Fiesta's. The difference is huge. Sorry, but for the moment there is no other track test only these ones. But these are showing the same result. For your reference, the Clio trophy is now within a second to the mighty Focus RS500 on tracks. And if you don't want to belive it you can check the same resources.
I can't find any of that stuff - any links ?Clio Trophy is running Pilot Super Sports too, probably one of the best OEM track tyres available?
Indeed - Not sure where Mr BioSkunk's gone as he was quite responsive so far. It looks like he needed validation for his choice of car, how bizarre. Surely a test drive is all you need. Besides, in only 20 years of track days I have found that similar road cars have very small deltas in terms of track times as they all understeer, bearing in mind that the driver is (by far) the limiting factor anyway (whereas the delta between drivers is huge).
As far as I can see, the ST wasn't even there, not sure how they could have lapped it ? And then it looks like he browsed one of those lap time comparison sites that compares lap times in potentially totally different conditions, tyre choice, driver, etc etc ...
And then the Sport Auto Mag comparo doesn't seem to even exist.
If you're really going to trust AE, then surely the Clio was the wrong choice unless you insist on an auto box for track fun... and then again it's not even quicker than a manual 208, despite the SuperSports.
It would be good to get some links from Mr BioSkunk but somehow, I doubt we'll see much.
As far as I can see, the ST wasn't even there, not sure how they could have lapped it ? And then it looks like he browsed one of those lap time comparison sites that compares lap times in potentially totally different conditions, tyre choice, driver, etc etc ...
And then the Sport Auto Mag comparo doesn't seem to even exist.
If you're really going to trust AE, then surely the Clio was the wrong choice unless you insist on an auto box for track fun... and then again it's not even quicker than a manual 208, despite the SuperSports.
It would be good to get some links from Mr BioSkunk but somehow, I doubt we'll see much.
Edited by nickfrog on Sunday 6th September 09:34
Here I am! Good to see that you were both missing me. Sorry guys, but the weekend is only for my child and for my wife reserved. So, first of all I need to make clear that I don't give a sh.t on which car how many stars achieved at AE tests. If you look at cars based on the stars they were given then you have to belive that a Suzuki Swift if equally good as an SLS AMG 
Funny way of thinking... I'm not going to discuss that part, but if you are looking only for that, you will miss quite a lot of great cars 
Anyways, back to your question regarding sources. As you all know, on YouTube there is not much yet available. There is for the moment only AE's track battle with the Clio Trophy and the Peugeot 208 GTi by PS. They have basically the same performance on track. But the funny thing is that AE made actually a 3 way thest in their magazine with clearly a win for the Fiesta ST, but somehow they did not dare to publish the track performance of the Fiesta. How can this happen?! They have a test winning hot hatch and don't publish the lap time of the winner... The reason for that is that the Fiesta was too slow. That's it. Way too slow. And why I'm that sure on this? Because other tests are showing the same results. Where are the tests? In the biggest magazine's of Europe. TopGear, EVO, Motorsport Magazine, Echappement, etc.. For example: there is TopGear's great hot hatch group test. Track test was done at Knockhill. And the Fiesta ST with Mountune kit (!) was almost 2 second's a lap slower than the Clio and the 208. 2 seconds a lap and with standing start Just for your reference, the Megane 275 Trophy was 1.4 seconds a lap faster than the Clio Trophy. Again, it was a done with standing start. So, the Clio Trophy is actually already closer to the Megane Trophy 275 than to the Fiesta ST Mountune. And the fiesta had one of the worst brakes in that test and the Clio one of the bests. In the 0-100-0 test the fiesta was much slower than the Clio Trophy (1,3 sec). You can find the test in the latest Top Gear Magazine. The next one: EVO magazine issue 213. Track performance: the Clio is signifacantly better and quicker on track than the Fiesta ST again with Mountune kit. That is what they said and what the stop watch was showing. Still the Clio Trophy will be massuered again at Bedford, because on the fast lap of the Clio it started to rain badly and half of the lap was done in wet. The Fiesta Mountune's lap was done in dry conditions, but the Clio Trophy was still quicker funny, eh? At Magny-Course the Clio Trophy was again 1,2 seconds a lap quicker. So yes, were they were both tested always the Clio was significantly quicker. In all the tests. Numbers are proving that. You can keep on with your opinion that a dual clutch gearbox does not belong to a hot hatch, but you just cannot deny that this 'box is already quick enough and the Clio Trophy itself is very quick and has a brilliant chassis, good brakes and a strong engine. And on the same time nice features and comfort for daily drive. You just can't deny it. And just shortly back to track performance: How can't you appritiate a B segment car's performance which is within a second on multiple tracks with performance cars such as the Lancer EVO X MR, the Focus RS500, the C63 AMG, Lexus IS F, etc... and is faster for example than the Mugen RR, normal Megane RS 250, Focus ST, NSX 3.0, 350Z, STi's, and is much quicker than the Clio 3 Cup, Fiesta ST, Mini JCW '15, etc... just to mention some. So it is unfair what you are saying. Go and try the Clio Trophy for a day and you will regret all the bad things you were saying about it. It is a brilliant Hot Hatch. Anyways, have a good day guys, I'm off.
Funny way of thinking... I'm not going to discuss that part, but if you are looking only for that, you will miss quite a lot of great cars Anyways, back to your question regarding sources. As you all know, on YouTube there is not much yet available. There is for the moment only AE's track battle with the Clio Trophy and the Peugeot 208 GTi by PS. They have basically the same performance on track. But the funny thing is that AE made actually a 3 way thest in their magazine with clearly a win for the Fiesta ST, but somehow they did not dare to publish the track performance of the Fiesta. How can this happen?! They have a test winning hot hatch and don't publish the lap time of the winner... The reason for that is that the Fiesta was too slow. That's it. Way too slow. And why I'm that sure on this? Because other tests are showing the same results. Where are the tests? In the biggest magazine's of Europe. TopGear, EVO, Motorsport Magazine, Echappement, etc.. For example: there is TopGear's great hot hatch group test. Track test was done at Knockhill. And the Fiesta ST with Mountune kit (!) was almost 2 second's a lap slower than the Clio and the 208. 2 seconds a lap and with standing start Just for your reference, the Megane 275 Trophy was 1.4 seconds a lap faster than the Clio Trophy. Again, it was a done with standing start. So, the Clio Trophy is actually already closer to the Megane Trophy 275 than to the Fiesta ST Mountune. And the fiesta had one of the worst brakes in that test and the Clio one of the bests. In the 0-100-0 test the fiesta was much slower than the Clio Trophy (1,3 sec). You can find the test in the latest Top Gear Magazine. The next one: EVO magazine issue 213. Track performance: the Clio is signifacantly better and quicker on track than the Fiesta ST again with Mountune kit. That is what they said and what the stop watch was showing. Still the Clio Trophy will be massuered again at Bedford, because on the fast lap of the Clio it started to rain badly and half of the lap was done in wet. The Fiesta Mountune's lap was done in dry conditions, but the Clio Trophy was still quicker funny, eh? At Magny-Course the Clio Trophy was again 1,2 seconds a lap quicker. So yes, were they were both tested always the Clio was significantly quicker. In all the tests. Numbers are proving that. You can keep on with your opinion that a dual clutch gearbox does not belong to a hot hatch, but you just cannot deny that this 'box is already quick enough and the Clio Trophy itself is very quick and has a brilliant chassis, good brakes and a strong engine. And on the same time nice features and comfort for daily drive. You just can't deny it. And just shortly back to track performance: How can't you appritiate a B segment car's performance which is within a second on multiple tracks with performance cars such as the Lancer EVO X MR, the Focus RS500, the C63 AMG, Lexus IS F, etc... and is faster for example than the Mugen RR, normal Megane RS 250, Focus ST, NSX 3.0, 350Z, STi's, and is much quicker than the Clio 3 Cup, Fiesta ST, Mini JCW '15, etc... just to mention some. So it is unfair what you are saying. Go and try the Clio Trophy for a day and you will regret all the bad things you were saying about it. It is a brilliant Hot Hatch. Anyways, have a good day guys, I'm off. Indeed. Any links or scans or articles to back up any of the stuff you say please, for the 3rd time of politely asking ?
If not, my assumption is that all of the facts that you come up with are made up or badly extrapolated. The main thing is that you're happy with your car, there was no need to make things up. When is your first track day with it ?
If not, my assumption is that all of the facts that you come up with are made up or badly extrapolated. The main thing is that you're happy with your car, there was no need to make things up. When is your first track day with it ?
And? Are you missing pictures, or what? Read it. If not then not, but discussion is made with listening to others opinion as well. My opinion on what is written up there. Oh yes, and before you are going to say something about my spelling mistakes, I must admit that I'm not native english and learned that only at school back in the time and I'm living in another country here in Europe. I do make mistakes for sure all the time, so sorry for that. But I think you will not having any difficulties to understand what I'm trying to tell. But you made a nice comment on it Well done, mate!
Oh, you are missing links? Sorry, but I cannot link articles from printed magazines. You need to buy them actually. Or you can just go to the shop and take it from the shelves, then read it and put it back there. But then you still need to read. Sorry!
Well done, mate! Oh, you are missing links? Sorry, but I cannot link articles from printed magazines. You need to buy them actually. Or you can just go to the shop and take it from the shelves, then read it and put it back there. But then you still need to read. Sorry!
nickfrog, all the mentioned printed magazines are my back up's. No need for anything else. As I said, go and buy them and then read them. That's it.
My first track day with it will be probably somewhere early next Year. There are so many orders for the Clio Trophy that the expected delivery date is by end of December. With some bad luck maybe January... But fingers crossed!
My first track day with it will be probably somewhere early next Year. There are so many orders for the Clio Trophy that the expected delivery date is by end of December. With some bad luck maybe January... But fingers crossed!
@ BaronVonVaderham: unsubstantiated claims? are you serious? can you read? if yes, go and check the magazine's I mentioned. Again, for your reference: TopGear - quite well know in the UK as well, so check the latest issue they have. I think it is September '15. Same as for EVO Mag. It is also quite known one over there. Issue 213 is to read. If you speak French, go and read Motorsport Magazine issue #65. You don't have to believe me, you just need to start to look at lap times there. Every single one I have mentioned is written in these magazines. How can you call yourself well informed, if you are so poorly informed? You are still mad at me about the comment I made on the Clio 3 RS? Sorry mate, but it is how it is. It is still a great car, just not that quick as the new one. Get used to it.
BioSkunk said:
And? Are you missing pictures, or what? Read it. If not then not, but discussion is made with listening to others opinion as well. My opinion on what is written up there. Oh yes, and before you are going to say something about my spelling mistakes, I must admit that I'm not native english and learned that only at school back in the time and I'm living in another country here in Europe. I do make mistakes for sure all the time, so sorry for that. But I think you will not having any difficulties to understand what I'm trying to tell. But you made a nice comment on it Well done, mate!
Oh, you are missing links? Sorry, but I cannot link articles from printed magazines. You need to buy them actually. Or you can just go to the shop and take it from the shelves, then read it and put it back there. But then you still need to read. Sorry!
r Well done, mate! Oh, you are missing links? Sorry, but I cannot link articles from printed magazines. You need to buy them actually. Or you can just go to the shop and take it from the shelves, then read it and put it back there. But then you still need to read. Sorry!
Your English is quite superb. English is my 3rd language so I can sympathise anyway. Having said that, I am not sure what you refer to when you question my reading abilities. You haven't offered any evidence whatsoever, particularly for online content. You have extrapolated that AE didn't publish the lap time but it looks likely to me they didn't have the car, if not, feel free to present any evidence to the contrary, I can't prove a negative. As for printed content, just take a pic and post please. I have a mate who subscribes to Echappement so I'll have a word.
Edited by nickfrog on Monday 7th September 14:24
Oh dear.
You do know that all those magazines have things called websites that publish both the reviews and lap times? As others have said, post links or GTFO, as without links, and without your warped view of reality, no one agrees with you.
Regarding your comments about my car, I'm really not concerned. The entire motoring press lauded it with multiple awards in every field and road test going. It's known to be one of the finest hot hatches ever made.
No one has said anything similar regarding the 200T or 220T. Also the reason that you will have to wait so long for it isn't because they are overwhelmed with orders, its because the plant in Dieppe shuts down for the whole of august.
You do know that all those magazines have things called websites that publish both the reviews and lap times? As others have said, post links or GTFO, as without links, and without your warped view of reality, no one agrees with you.
Regarding your comments about my car, I'm really not concerned. The entire motoring press lauded it with multiple awards in every field and road test going. It's known to be one of the finest hot hatches ever made.
No one has said anything similar regarding the 200T or 220T. Also the reason that you will have to wait so long for it isn't because they are overwhelmed with orders, its because the plant in Dieppe shuts down for the whole of august.
Where's a popcorn eating smily when you need one!
I do enjoy reading passionate defences of ones car, especially newly bought. I have been there and worn the t-shirt, difference is these days I couldn't really care less if mine is x amount slower/faster around the ring, bedford Autodrome or Anglesey than the competition.
Do continue...
I do enjoy reading passionate defences of ones car, especially newly bought. I have been there and worn the t-shirt, difference is these days I couldn't really care less if mine is x amount slower/faster around the ring, bedford Autodrome or Anglesey than the competition.
Do continue...
@ nickfrog: I see. Ok, I will make some pictures at home from those sites of these magazines and will post it here. That's the easiest then. Echappement is really a great magazine, but I also have some troubles to read it since french will be my 5th language and I'm still at the very-very beginning of the learning process. Anyways, I will come back with the photos later on. Thx!
@ GTID: good to hear that at least one person is enjoying it beside of me. Keep on reading
However, it is quite annoying that others opinion is sometimes be ignored and been called a liar. But I'm just telling the truth based on facts I found. And this hurts maybe...
@ BaronVonVaderham: Oh dear... My dear RenaultSport mate I never ever said that the Clio 3 RS is not a good car. It is great. I have driven it, so I know. All I said is that it is not that quick as the new Trophy. But that is a fact. Simply as that. Back in the time I was also thinking about to buy it, but then after the test drive I changed my mind. It is very good, if you really push it to its limits, but not quite quick if you don't let it scream and I was not only looking for a track toy what I can use sometimes for shopping as well, but for a daily drive what I can use also for trackdays. Do you see the difference? And this new Clio Trophy is that car in my opinion. It has all the comfort I need and it is quick on the track as well. And yes, it is actually also quicker than the Clio 3 RS. And not only in the straight line, but also on the track. And in the beginning of the conversation I did not even want to mention the Clio 3 RS because I also like it and it is an RS and because I just answered on someones 'pronouncement' - which was wrong - that the Fiesta is faster and more capable to pursuit supercars on the road. And then somewhere in the middle of the discussion you jumped in and called me someone from RenaultSport's PR dept. That was really cheap and was made by bad intentions just to make my comments invalid. So as I said shame on you! But now I have to call you invalid. You have proven it. You are just not worth to spend more time to answer/read your upcoming comments. beside of one last thing. Yes, almost whole France is 'closed' in August. But you also cannot believe in that less than 1 month of delay in producing cars can cause 5 month of delay in deliveries?! Can you? As I said before the 500th Clio Trophy is already been delivered by end of August.
I'm now really off for today, but will provide you with 'evidences' by tomorrow. Keep on hating guys! Have a good afternoon!
@ GTID: good to hear that at least one person is enjoying it beside of me. Keep on reading
However, it is quite annoying that others opinion is sometimes be ignored and been called a liar. But I'm just telling the truth based on facts I found. And this hurts maybe... @ BaronVonVaderham: Oh dear... My dear RenaultSport mate
I never ever said that the Clio 3 RS is not a good car. It is great. I have driven it, so I know. All I said is that it is not that quick as the new Trophy. But that is a fact. Simply as that. Back in the time I was also thinking about to buy it, but then after the test drive I changed my mind. It is very good, if you really push it to its limits, but not quite quick if you don't let it scream and I was not only looking for a track toy what I can use sometimes for shopping as well, but for a daily drive what I can use also for trackdays. Do you see the difference? And this new Clio Trophy is that car in my opinion. It has all the comfort I need and it is quick on the track as well. And yes, it is actually also quicker than the Clio 3 RS. And not only in the straight line, but also on the track. And in the beginning of the conversation I did not even want to mention the Clio 3 RS because I also like it and it is an RS and because I just answered on someones 'pronouncement' - which was wrong - that the Fiesta is faster and more capable to pursuit supercars on the road. And then somewhere in the middle of the discussion you jumped in and called me someone from RenaultSport's PR dept. That was really cheap and was made by bad intentions just to make my comments invalid. So as I said shame on you! But now I have to call you invalid. You have proven it. You are just not worth to spend more time to answer/read your upcoming comments. beside of one last thing. Yes, almost whole France is 'closed' in August. But you also cannot believe in that less than 1 month of delay in producing cars can cause 5 month of delay in deliveries?! Can you? As I said before the 500th Clio Trophy is already been delivered by end of August.I'm now really off for today, but will provide you with 'evidences' by tomorrow. Keep on hating guys! Have a good afternoon!
@ BaronVonVaderham: as I said before, I'm not talking to you anymore. Especially not after you said "...post links or GTFO..." (?????) and that jibe was not clearly a joke. You can f.ck yourself. Who do you think you are? And you don't know sh.t about the sales figures and the production volumes, but you try to make jokes on everything.
@ all other PH members who are interested in the conversation: pictures will follow soon.
@ all other PH members who are interested in the conversation: pictures will follow soon.
I'm half convinced you're trolling, I've not seen such a rabid fan boy in years but I suppose it's possible you're on the level.
Calm down and stop attacking people who have a different opinion. There is no "winning" here, different people want different things.
No-one is really criticising the Trophy, in fact it's clear it's a good car. If track speed is all that matters to you then I have no problem whatsoever believing it is faster on track than the competition because it's quite light, has plenty of grunt and runs tyres which are heavily biased towards track use.
The group test reviews also state that on the road it's clearly faster in a straight line than the Fiesta ST.
Yet despite the outright pace every single review puts the ST ahead of the Trophy overall, because it's more fun. The Trophy engine and gearbox come in for criticism not for being ineffective, but for being dull and for taking away from the driving experience that the chassis offers.
Your priorities are different, you want more day to day usability and softer suspension, and you prefer the interior of the Trophy. You also clearly want the bragging rights of having the fastest car on track out of the immediate competition - that's fine too.
I go back to my original point though, speed is not the same as fun. If it was my money I'd buy the most fun car in the class because that's what I want out of a hot hatch. That doesn't make me or anyone else who makes the same choice wrong. It's the reason I bought my RenaultSport Clio
Calm down and stop attacking people who have a different opinion. There is no "winning" here, different people want different things.
No-one is really criticising the Trophy, in fact it's clear it's a good car. If track speed is all that matters to you then I have no problem whatsoever believing it is faster on track than the competition because it's quite light, has plenty of grunt and runs tyres which are heavily biased towards track use.
The group test reviews also state that on the road it's clearly faster in a straight line than the Fiesta ST.
Yet despite the outright pace every single review puts the ST ahead of the Trophy overall, because it's more fun. The Trophy engine and gearbox come in for criticism not for being ineffective, but for being dull and for taking away from the driving experience that the chassis offers.
Your priorities are different, you want more day to day usability and softer suspension, and you prefer the interior of the Trophy. You also clearly want the bragging rights of having the fastest car on track out of the immediate competition - that's fine too.
I go back to my original point though, speed is not the same as fun. If it was my money I'd buy the most fun car in the class because that's what I want out of a hot hatch. That doesn't make me or anyone else who makes the same choice wrong. It's the reason I bought my RenaultSport Clio
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