RE: Clio RenaultSport 220 Trophy on Track
Discussion
@ charltjr: I was not attacking anyone, but I maybe hit back. I give you that. But I started with just adding a comment to the forum. This is what a forum is for. And yes, as of the beginning I cleary stated my opinion without hurting anyone. Then I replied on a consern about the missing LSD for road driving. That was all. But than again I saw a fiesta related comment right after the nonsence sales related ones and I told you guys a statement and made clear why I prefer the Clio Trophy over the Fiesta (with, or without Mountune, it does not matter now). Again, that is what the forum is for. That was maybe a bit rude, but not more harsh than other's comment on the Clio. Then I got attacked that I need to prove with links what I'm saying otherwise I'm a liar. I never lie! But what really pissed me of is the 'joke' from BaronVonVaderham and then again the constant suggestions about lies. I came back and named the references. And my word was still questioned. And than again BaronVonVaderham's 'wel informed' comment and the one with 'GTFO', 'oh dear' and 'things called website' is what crossed all the lines. Nickfrog just misunderstood me with reading abilities. What I meant is the wilingness of reading what I was refering to. But he did show that later. So that is it. But luckily noone got killed... 
Anyways, here are the requested pictures (I hope PH is not against to posting it):
this is showing lap times at Magny Course - MotorsportMagazine France
Here are the 0-100-0 performance figures (incl. Fiesta ST Mountune). TopGear Magazine September 2015.
lap times from the same TopGear group test.
EVO's track test comment
Regarding the AE 3 way test: you also must feel that there was something not ok. On one hand, there is the 3 way group test where clearly the Fiesta ST was the winner. Everyone on its own... that is ok. But than strangely, when it comes to the TrackBattle, the Fiesta ST is missing. The TrackBattle video and the 3 way test have both more or less the same date of publishing and the number plates of the Clio and the Peugeot are the same on both in the video (https://youtu.be/gA_MSJr5gPA) and in the 3 way test (http://cdn2.autoexpress.co.uk/sites/autoexpressuk/files/styles/gallery_adv/public/1/59/dsc_4550_lrg.jpg_0.jpg?itok=S1ANwS6e) and the background on the photos is, hmm, let's say very similar. To me it looks like Llandow. So that is why I believe they did not dare to publish the lap time of the Fiesta. Or maybe I'm wrong, who knows. Maybe it is just a coincidence.
Have a good night all of you!
Anyways, here are the requested pictures (I hope PH is not against to posting it):
this is showing lap times at Magny Course - MotorsportMagazine France
Here are the 0-100-0 performance figures (incl. Fiesta ST Mountune). TopGear Magazine September 2015.
lap times from the same TopGear group test.
EVO's track test comment
Regarding the AE 3 way test: you also must feel that there was something not ok. On one hand, there is the 3 way group test where clearly the Fiesta ST was the winner. Everyone on its own... that is ok. But than strangely, when it comes to the TrackBattle, the Fiesta ST is missing. The TrackBattle video and the 3 way test have both more or less the same date of publishing and the number plates of the Clio and the Peugeot are the same on both in the video (https://youtu.be/gA_MSJr5gPA) and in the 3 way test (http://cdn2.autoexpress.co.uk/sites/autoexpressuk/files/styles/gallery_adv/public/1/59/dsc_4550_lrg.jpg_0.jpg?itok=S1ANwS6e) and the background on the photos is, hmm, let's say very similar. To me it looks like Llandow. So that is why I believe they did not dare to publish the lap time of the Fiesta. Or maybe I'm wrong, who knows. Maybe it is just a coincidence.
Have a good night all of you!
BioSkunk said:
@ BaronVonVaderham: as I said before, I'm not talking to you anymore. Especially not after you said "...post links or GTFO..." (?????) and that jibe was not clearly a joke. You can f.ck yourself. Who do you think you are? And you don't know sh.t about the sales figures and the production volumes, but you try to make jokes on everything.
What a strange and angry little person you are.@ BaronVonVaderham: and you are an arrogant idiot. I wish we could meet to show you how little I am and how angry I can be. You are very brave behind the keyboard...
You are not able to add any constructive comment to the discussion, so now I have to say GTFO. That is my very last reply towards you.
You are not able to add any constructive comment to the discussion, so now I have to say GTFO. That is my very last reply towards you.
Why get so worked up on internet forum? You are the one attacking people! All we did was call custard on your spurious claims as to the performance of a car that only you seem willing to defend. If you'd read a few threads here before frothing at the mouth after some mild banter you might not look so silly now.
BioSkunk said:
lap times from the same TopGear group test.
The delta was actually 1.7 sec. The Ford pulled 1.05g vs 1.10g of lateral for the Reno. I am sure that in your vast track experience, you have realised that tyres make a significant difference.
The Clio wears Supersports. The Ford far more humble rubber. I have been running Supersports for 2 years now on 2 different cars at the Ring and at Bedford and I have a very good idea of what lateral g and lap time delta they can yield compared to a even a quality tyre, based on V-Box readings.
I am quite confident the lap time difference is simply down to tyres, as alluded to by other posters.
@ nickfrog: as far as I know the Fiesta ST, also that one with the Mountune tuning as tested is fitted from factory with Bridgestone Potenza RE050A tyres. As you know as well that tyre was on the Megane RS 265 Trophy when it lapped the FWD record of 8:08 at the Ring. And I know that tyre quite well from my own experiences as well. On dry it is superb. On wet it is s
t, but on dry conditions it is very-very good. And it has even a softer compound than the Michelin Supersports. The Michelin pSS is for sure a very good road tyre, maybe even a bit better than the RE050A, but no way it would cause such a huge difference in lap times. and yes, 1.7 seconds distance is greater than 1.4 so as I said, the Clio Trophy is closer to the Megane 275 Trophy than the Fiesta Mountune to the Clio Trophy, Both are great road tyres with similar grip level on dry, but non of them are close to semi-slicks. And both cars are wearing 205 wide tyres. The Clio on 18 inch wheels with a /40 profile and the fiesta with /45 on 17 inch wheels. So smaller sidewall on the Clio, but the Fiesta's front-end is much ligther.
PS: it is quite fast, young man
t, but on dry conditions it is very-very good. And it has even a softer compound than the Michelin Supersports. The Michelin pSS is for sure a very good road tyre, maybe even a bit better than the RE050A, but no way it would cause such a huge difference in lap times. and yes, 1.7 seconds distance is greater than 1.4 so as I said, the Clio Trophy is closer to the Megane 275 Trophy than the Fiesta Mountune to the Clio Trophy, Both are great road tyres with similar grip level on dry, but non of them are close to semi-slicks. And both cars are wearing 205 wide tyres. The Clio on 18 inch wheels with a /40 profile and the fiesta with /45 on 17 inch wheels. So smaller sidewall on the Clio, but the Fiesta's front-end is much ligther. PS: it is quite fast, young man
@ nichfrog: that is simply not true. They are both very close in terms of dry grip. But you can keep thinking that, if it makes you feel better 1.7 sec on one lap with standing start is indeed quite a huge difference, but it is not because the PSS would be that better than the RE050A with even softer compound.
Cheers mate, was a nice discussion! Have a good day! Hope to see you on some track days in the near future!
1.7 sec on one lap with standing start is indeed quite a huge difference, but it is not because the PSS would be that better than the RE050A with even softer compound.Cheers mate, was a nice discussion! Have a good day! Hope to see you on some track days in the near future!
Yes, a bit surreal. But in my opinion it was not up on me and at least I have proven everything I was called a liar for
No, I haven't tracked the PSS, but I will till they last and then go for a set of semi slicks as I usually do, but have you ever tracked the RE050A? I did and and I'm sure many here did it as well. And it performed quite well on the Ring record lap of the Megane 265 Trophy as well. Anyways, both are very good sporty road tyres with very nice grip level on dry, but both are far away from semi slick performance. However, the RE050A wears also quite quickly because of the soft compound it has and has a ridiculous wet grip (if you can call that grip at all). So in these terms I hope the PSS will perform better.
Enjoy the track day at Spa! For sure you will! How couldn't you, it is Spa... next Year I will go there again as well. It is a beautiful and great track. Quite close to my place, but no chance to get the Clio Trophy delivered till then. And I sold my last track toy already and with the current car I have it does not make any sense to go there. But next Year for sure! Can't wait
What do you mean with "We'll also catch the TF that evening"? What is TF?
No, I haven't tracked the PSS, but I will till they last and then go for a set of semi slicks as I usually do, but have you ever tracked the RE050A? I did and and I'm sure many here did it as well. And it performed quite well on the Ring record lap of the Megane 265 Trophy as well. Anyways, both are very good sporty road tyres with very nice grip level on dry, but both are far away from semi slick performance. However, the RE050A wears also quite quickly because of the soft compound it has and has a ridiculous wet grip (if you can call that grip at all). So in these terms I hope the PSS will perform better.
Enjoy the track day at Spa! For sure you will! How couldn't you, it is Spa...
next Year I will go there again as well. It is a beautiful and great track. Quite close to my place, but no chance to get the Clio Trophy delivered till then. And I sold my last track toy already and with the current car I have it does not make any sense to go there. But next Year for sure! Can't wait What do you mean with "We'll also catch the TF that evening"? What is TF?
Regarding the mk.4 Clio RS being faster than the mk.3 200, it seems that this is not the case:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPpg3aF2ZdQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPpg3aF2ZdQ
@ BaronVonVaderham: 
oh dear... If you would scroll up a bit you could have find these results on one of the pictures I added to the forum previously. And we are not talking about the "normal" Clio RS 200 EDC Cup. The whole topic is about the Clio RS 220 Trophy Good morning!!
So, as you can see there as well, the Clio RS 220 Trophy achieved a lap time of 1:29.18 at Magny-Course (same track, same mag., same testers, but 2 Years later). That is 1.86 seconds a lap quicker than the Clio RS 200 Cup's laptime. If you can not check the attached picture and can not understand that it is a different car I can not help you. For printed reference you need to check Motorsport Magazine's issue 65 from France. What you are refering to is a test from spring 2013. If you are interested in the whole group test you can find it in Motorsport Magazine's issue 51. Here another interesting video from that test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieNXoxYQBLk
As I told you before, I still like the Clio RS 200 Cup, so save your energy. And as I said, that one was in 2013 and it was the Clio RS 200 EDC Cup and now this discussion and topic is about the Clio RS 220 Trophy
Sleep well!
oh dear... If you would scroll up a bit you could have find these results on one of the pictures I added to the forum previously. And we are not talking about the "normal" Clio RS 200 EDC Cup. The whole topic is about the Clio RS 220 Trophy Good morning!!So, as you can see there as well, the Clio RS 220 Trophy achieved a lap time of 1:29.18 at Magny-Course (same track, same mag., same testers, but 2 Years later). That is 1.86 seconds a lap quicker than the Clio RS 200 Cup's laptime. If you can not check the attached picture and can not understand that it is a different car I can not help you. For printed reference you need to check Motorsport Magazine's issue 65 from France. What you are refering to is a test from spring 2013. If you are interested in the whole group test you can find it in Motorsport Magazine's issue 51. Here another interesting video from that test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieNXoxYQBLk
As I told you before, I still like the Clio RS 200 Cup, so save your energy. And as I said, that one was in 2013 and it was the Clio RS 200 EDC Cup and now this discussion and topic is about the Clio RS 220 Trophy
Sleep well!
BioSkunk said:
the Clio RS 220 Trophy achieved a lap time of 1:29.18 at Magny-Course (same track, same mag., same testers, but 2 Years later).
Now I get it. You're comparing track times on 2 different days. Yet another wild extrapolation/assumption. Surely, with your vast track experience, you should know that a track offers significant lap time variations throughout the day (temperature, dew point, wind, etc...) let alone throughout the year (rubber laid down, resurfacing, kerb re-modelling). No wonder you don't know what TF stands for. I bet you don't even live very far from it...It's Magny-Cours btw.
But carry on ; quite entertaining how far someone will go to validate a bias.
I'm well aware that my screenshot was comparing 200t to 200. Just thought I'd play your game with you to refute your claim that my negative views on my car's successors are being due to them being faster.
The fact that the 220t is likely quicker (track condition variables aside) due to it's 20+ extra horsepower pales in comparison to the fact that it's just not as good a driver's car due to it being aimed at a wider market, with it's autobox and 5 doors, lack of perfohub, recaros and brembos.
I'm sure it's a better day to day car, but I'm disappointed that Renault went down that route when so many other manufacturers have got that corner of the market sewn up.
The old 200 was regularly described as a race car for the road. That's what makes it feel unique amongst it's competition.
The fact that the 220t is likely quicker (track condition variables aside) due to it's 20+ extra horsepower pales in comparison to the fact that it's just not as good a driver's car due to it being aimed at a wider market, with it's autobox and 5 doors, lack of perfohub, recaros and brembos.
I'm sure it's a better day to day car, but I'm disappointed that Renault went down that route when so many other manufacturers have got that corner of the market sewn up.
The old 200 was regularly described as a race car for the road. That's what makes it feel unique amongst it's competition.
Supposedly in other markets the EDC box has been quite popular, the Auzzys love autos iirc.
Just because people are a bit precious here doesn't mean it's a flop globally, it's a shame that they don't offer a manual box but it's the way things are going.
I'll quite happily still criticise it for the front end looks, which are pretty bad still imo BUT in all honesty I'm not sure Renault have made a nice front end in a while.
They've addressed the ride height issues which has improved it immensely and if they've improved the box as they're supposed to have and tweaked the software then fine, it'd be interesting to have a drive of one as I drove one early on and was a bit underwhelmed. Though that might have been because at the time I was driving a mk3 200 on R888s around Oulton, on the road where it spends 99% of it's time the 220 might be a much better car.
Just because people are a bit precious here doesn't mean it's a flop globally, it's a shame that they don't offer a manual box but it's the way things are going.
I'll quite happily still criticise it for the front end looks, which are pretty bad still imo BUT in all honesty I'm not sure Renault have made a nice front end in a while.
They've addressed the ride height issues which has improved it immensely and if they've improved the box as they're supposed to have and tweaked the software then fine, it'd be interesting to have a drive of one as I drove one early on and was a bit underwhelmed. Though that might have been because at the time I was driving a mk3 200 on R888s around Oulton, on the road where it spends 99% of it's time the 220 might be a much better car.
@ GrumpyTwig: try to get a test ride in the Clio Trophy. I'm sure you will like it.
@ Yes, it is a better daily drive and on the same time faster on the track. But the old N/A cup is still lovely anyways.
@ nickfrog: with your track experience you know exactly from inside that this big lap time difference cannot be explained with the uppon mentioned things. It was a nice try, but Magny-Cours (yes, you were right, and sorry for my typing mistakes) was not completely re-built for sure
Your last comment is I guess meant for yourself. And then it is fully valid based on your last comment.
Anyways, I'm off guys. No need to go on with this discussion.
@ Yes, it is a better daily drive and on the same time faster on the track. But the old N/A cup is still lovely anyways.
@ nickfrog: with your track experience you know exactly from inside that this big lap time difference cannot be explained with the uppon mentioned things. It was a nice try, but Magny-Cours (yes, you were right, and sorry for my typing mistakes) was not completely re-built for sure
Your last comment is I guess meant for yourself. And then it is fully valid based on your last comment.
Anyways, I'm off guys. No need to go on with this discussion.
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