RE: Roadworks aren't working: PH Blog
Wednesday 2nd September 2015
According to a press release sitting in my inbox for a couple of weeks now Highways England wants us to think differently about roadworks. Given I schlep up and down the M1 most weeks and, currently, there are 100-plus miles of 50-limited works going on over five sections between junctions 19 and 42 they've certainly given me plenty of time to ponder the worth of conversion to 'smart' motorway. You'll recall I've had a rant about this before and am awaiting an invitation to come and spend some time in a control centre to see it from the operators' perspective. I'm still keen to do this.
A familiar sight to anyone using the M1On the optimistic basis I can maintain 50mph where I would otherwise have been doing a steady 70 that's at least 35 minutes of additional thinking time to consider Highways England's appeal. Seemingly it wants roadworks to be more "intuitive" with a consistent look and feel. What, like ranks of cones aren't consistent enough? In detail this includes "enhanced roadside information including more real time journey information both ahead of and within the roadworks" and "ensuring signage for customers is easy to distinguish from signage aimed at road workers." Notice that word 'customers' in there? Interesting linguistic slip. Not 'drivers', 'customers'. A hint at the real reason for all those gantries and cameras perhaps? Again, we're given plenty of time to concoct conspiracy theories as we enjoy the new signs delivering platitudes like 'Let's all get home safely!', vital driving tips like 'check your fuel!' and jolly pictures of folk in dayglo orange smiling and waving. While stuck for 30 miles in an artic's blind spot, boxed in by lobotomised fellow drivers sitting petrified with the cruise control on 49mph.
Aaaand out come the cones againIt's deeply depressing. Not so long ago you could plan your journey and, if you so wished, travel at night when the roads were quiet and bank on making some progress. I'm not talking about anything daft. Just the ability to do a steady 70 would be a dream. But when all those gantries are in place and the cameras are active who's to say a midnight run up a deserted M1 wouldn't be restricted to 50 the whole distance, apparently on the whim of an operator in a control room miles away. When they discussed lowering a section of the M1 to a 60mph limit they held a proper public consultation and 90-odd per cent of those who responded told them where to stick it. Once the gantries are active the same will be achievable at the flick of a switch and we won't have right of reply this time.
Slowed to a crawl by a few key strokes - bah!So I don't actually blame Highways England. I have no problem with the folk in flouro doing the work. I pin all my considerable hatred of this situation on this plonker. If they didn't have to plan roadworks and remote controlled motorways around the lowest common denominator of mouth breathers like him we could all get around much more easily. And I'd be getting home half an hour earlier than I currently do.
Roadworks aren't working: PH Blog
Fancy signs and 'improved experience' of road works promised but why do we need them in the first place?
A familiar sight to anyone using the M1
I could take all this if I really thought this incredible level of disruption spread over significant sections of the motorway network for years on end really is going to make things better. Rather than pointing toward the real future of ever more arbitrary speed regulation and further reliance on camera-based traffic law enforcement in place of cops on patrol. You could probably afford to employ a few more of those for a fraction of the £11bn invested in this five-year plan. Ever seen a camera successfully deal with a drunk driver, compulsive texter, a tailgater, random brake checker or any of the other common sights on your average motorway? Nope.
Aaaand out come the cones again
I've been trying to think why all this time and money really needs to be spent. And then the other morning it was demonstrated to me. Six in the morning, the evening's roadworks are being cleared and three lanes that were funnelled into one are being reopened by brave folk manhandling cones out of the way protected by nothing more than a slow moving truck with a big blue arrow on the back. Folk are obediently merging into turn ahead of this very real 'workforce in road' situation. And here he comes flying up lane three, standing his Audi (it had to be didn't it...) on its nose as he swerves round the chaps in orange and their vehicle before nailing it up the now cleared motorway beyond.
Slowed to a crawl by a few key strokes - bah!
Forget cameras. Install frickin' lasers capable of vapourising a car in one blast on the gantries. Then I really WILL want a go in that control room...
Dan
[Photos: Highways England, via Flickr]
Discussion
My concern is that we're investing a lot of money in this. And we are not a long way off driverless cars. Is it worth it?
http://worldif.economist.com/article/11/what-if-au...
http://worldif.economist.com/article/11/what-if-au...
As I mentioned to a colleague recently...
There's a sign "My Dad works on this site please drive carefully". And as I said. "No, no he doesn't. No one works on this site, there's no one here". And this was a normal, non-raining 10am on a week day. Miles and miles of 50, no work, and nobody in sight.
There's a sign "My Dad works on this site please drive carefully". And as I said. "No, no he doesn't. No one works on this site, there's no one here". And this was a normal, non-raining 10am on a week day. Miles and miles of 50, no work, and nobody in sight.
Edited by phil4 on Wednesday 2nd September 11:43
Freddy88FM said:
My concern is that we're investing a lot of money in this. And we are not a long way off driverless cars. Is it worth it?
http://worldif.economist.com/article/11/what-if-au...
We are a long way off all being in driverless cars.http://worldif.economist.com/article/11/what-if-au...
I've driven the M1 north and south several times in the last week or so.
There are 20 miles of "roadworks" leading up to J19.
There is no work going on for 19.5 miles, then there's the M1 / M6 junction work.
No work. NO WORK. Nothing.
No machinery, no people, no activity of any kind.
It's been like this for weeks if not months and promises to be like this for many more weeks to come.
Why?
It's hard to be understanding of the reasons when no reason can be seen.
There are 20 miles of "roadworks" leading up to J19.
There is no work going on for 19.5 miles, then there's the M1 / M6 junction work.
No work. NO WORK. Nothing.
No machinery, no people, no activity of any kind.
It's been like this for weeks if not months and promises to be like this for many more weeks to come.
Why?
It's hard to be understanding of the reasons when no reason can be seen.
Nice article, for a rant.
My thoughts:
> Agree with the comment about roads closed with nobody working on them
> Why in the UK do we insist on coning off 7 miles for, what, 100 yard of worksite?
> Planners need to talk to each other in order to avoid everyone doing work at the same time and making "customers'" journeys tortuous
> People still need to learn that average speed cameras don't measure speed: please aim your imaginary laser at those who brake fiendishly from 70 - 50 as they pass the camera, then speed up again and repeat
> Does the M1 need a huge concrete barrier that will rebound any luckless vehicle making contact with it back into the stream of traffic rather than absorb some of its speed like a deformable barrier does?
My thoughts:
> Agree with the comment about roads closed with nobody working on them
> Why in the UK do we insist on coning off 7 miles for, what, 100 yard of worksite?
> Planners need to talk to each other in order to avoid everyone doing work at the same time and making "customers'" journeys tortuous
> People still need to learn that average speed cameras don't measure speed: please aim your imaginary laser at those who brake fiendishly from 70 - 50 as they pass the camera, then speed up again and repeat
> Does the M1 need a huge concrete barrier that will rebound any luckless vehicle making contact with it back into the stream of traffic rather than absorb some of its speed like a deformable barrier does?
Cyder said:
We are a long way off all being in driverless cars.
Most analysts seem to think within 10 years we'll see the first roll out production models (think as Tesla are right now), 20 years time most regulatory issues will have settled in most Western territories, 50 years for it to be illegal to drive a car 'by hand'.phil4 said:
As I mentioned to a colleague recently...
There's a sign "My Dad works on this site please drive carefully". And as I said. "No, no he doesn't. No one works on this site, there's no one here". And this was a normal, non-raining 10am on a week day. Miles and miles of 50, no work, and nobody in sight.
Yep, I noticed exactly the same on two long sections of the M1 recently:There's a sign "My Dad works on this site please drive carefully". And as I said. "No, no he doesn't. No one works on this site, there's no one here". And this was a normal, non-raining 10am on a week day. Miles and miles of 50, no work, and nobody in sight.
Edited by phil4 on Wednesday 2nd September 11:43
1) Leeds to Leicester
2) M6 Junction (Coventry) to Luton.
Must have been 50+ miles and NO ONE working !!
On the way up to Leeds, from the Leicester on the M1, I saw, in total, all added together, 2 men leaning against a van, talking.
The A1 between near Gateshead/Washington has been a complete mess for ages now. Work going at a snail's pace. Speed limit arbitrarily dropped to 50mph on a road that was fine at 70mph (and is often negotiated with ease at over 100mph). Now it's mostly 40mph and 30mph zones of 'roadworks', which are mainly cones and contraflows with f
k all work happening.
k all work happening. The cost to the economy of speed restrictions, let alone the overnight total closures (for example sections of the M6 between Birmingham and Manchester) is colossal. Lack of warning on some of the matrix signs - until drivers are inextricably boxed into the ensuing traffic jams - is critically stupid.
Locked in all the mess are good and services - professionals and tradespeople - and also those who (presumably) we're trying to temp to travel to/within the UK to spend their leisure time.
The overarching issue is transport capacity. Given that public transport can only ever cater for a proportion of these movements, there needs to be a renewed look at road capacity and strategy. Otherwise, with a population density like the UK's, gridlock could easily prevail.
Locked in all the mess are good and services - professionals and tradespeople - and also those who (presumably) we're trying to temp to travel to/within the UK to spend their leisure time.
The overarching issue is transport capacity. Given that public transport can only ever cater for a proportion of these movements, there needs to be a renewed look at road capacity and strategy. Otherwise, with a population density like the UK's, gridlock could easily prevail.
Freddy88FM said:
Cyder said:
We are a long way off all being in driverless cars.
Most analysts seem to think within 10 years we'll see the first roll out production models (think as Tesla are right now), 20 years time most regulatory issues will have settled in most Western territories, 50 years for it to be illegal to drive a car 'by hand'.
I get that motorways need to be worked on, and I have no issue with 50mph limits when there's workers in the road but there seems to be so little consideration for road users (that includes pretty much everyone, the road workers, the decision makers for these limits etc).
Why oh why does the limit have to 50mph for the duration of the road work area after all the workers have long since gone home? I recently bought an RS6 and driving back from hertfordshire to Southampton I had the grim prospect of travelling along the M3 at 10pm on a Monday night, no traffic as such and yet the 'road improvement' works going on at the top of the M3 still had the 50mph limits. Not a soul in sight, certainly no workers on foot and only seldomly meeting another car, made worse by the fact that the roadworks continue to sprawl along the length of the M3 to the point where there's now almost as much 50mph limits as there are 70mph limits.
The cynic in me says that this is a sneaky way of reducing the motorway speed limits by "forgetting" to take down average speed cameras and cones after the works have completed and not removing the limits when no worker is on site.
M27 - J3 still has 50mph signs on the motorway 4 months after they finished working on that junction (granted the work continues on the roundabout above the motorway but unless your car gets airborne at 70 surely that's not a justification!)
/Rant
Why oh why does the limit have to 50mph for the duration of the road work area after all the workers have long since gone home? I recently bought an RS6 and driving back from hertfordshire to Southampton I had the grim prospect of travelling along the M3 at 10pm on a Monday night, no traffic as such and yet the 'road improvement' works going on at the top of the M3 still had the 50mph limits. Not a soul in sight, certainly no workers on foot and only seldomly meeting another car, made worse by the fact that the roadworks continue to sprawl along the length of the M3 to the point where there's now almost as much 50mph limits as there are 70mph limits.
The cynic in me says that this is a sneaky way of reducing the motorway speed limits by "forgetting" to take down average speed cameras and cones after the works have completed and not removing the limits when no worker is on site.
M27 - J3 still has 50mph signs on the motorway 4 months after they finished working on that junction (granted the work continues on the roundabout above the motorway but unless your car gets airborne at 70 surely that's not a justification!)
/Rant
Turbobanana said:
> Does the M1 need a huge concrete barrier that will rebound any luckless vehicle making contact with it back into the stream of traffic rather than absorb some of its speed like a deformable barrier does?
This!I remember an episode of Tomorrow's world where these amazing new cables meant cars hitting the central reservation would be absorbed into the cable - not smash through to the opposite carriageway or be brought to a very abrupt halt.
And weren't people stranded for days on the M25 (Surrey) in snow due to the fact that it had concrete central reservation which meant cars couldn't be easily moved to the other carriageway?
So why is it suddenly a good idea to put a f
g great concrete wall next to the barrier?And this'll really make you laugh - a huge section of newly installed concrete barrier on the M1 in North Notts has to be dug up and re installed because the supplier used the wrong mix of concrete!
Edited by Hackney on Wednesday 2nd September 12:52
Turbobanana said:
> Does the M1 need a huge concrete barrier that will rebound any luckless vehicle making contact with it back into the stream of traffic rather than absorb some of its speed like a deformable barrier does?
Now this is where it's a tough decision.A few months ago near us an HGV went straight through the armco central reservation into oncoming traffic. To say the results weren't pretty is one hell of an understatement.
So the concrete barrier will prevent occasional incidents like this which can have horrific consequences.
But...your point is still valid...a car/van into armco will be less likely to bounce back or will do so with far less energy. The HA question is "what is the lesser evil?".
I'm worried these will be abused like the big electronic signpost gantries. Hands up who hasn't seen 10+ miles of these things all proclaiming "accident ahead, 50mph" and then there's absolutely nothing. Not a thing.
They need to enforce some sort of rule about only allowing the 2 or 3 gantries prior to an accident site to actually speak about the accident, add an "all clear" sign after the accident site, and enforce their switching off promptly after the accident has been cleared up.
It's a real problem that these things cry wolf so often, because nobody pays them the slightest attention any more.
They need to enforce some sort of rule about only allowing the 2 or 3 gantries prior to an accident site to actually speak about the accident, add an "all clear" sign after the accident site, and enforce their switching off promptly after the accident has been cleared up.
It's a real problem that these things cry wolf so often, because nobody pays them the slightest attention any more.
I think the managers of these so called "Managed Motorways" need sacking, especially on the M62 near Leeds. I was on there on Sunday at 10.30 am, speed restriction in place, 60 mph. Why, i have no idea, all lanes clear and no heavy traffic. The only congestion was the cars backing up to slow down to 60 mph from 70 mph. Get a grip. If you are going to manage these motorways, then do it right. If i had gone through the 60 mph limit at 70 mph. I would get fined and my licence endorsed. Why not impose a fine on the management company supposed to be managing these motorways for not managing the traffic flow correctly in the first place. This isn't the first time i've seen this, it is every weekend.
Edited by Ady555 on Wednesday 2nd September 13:10
Edited by Ady555 on Wednesday 2nd September 13:11
havoc said:
Now this is where it's a tough decision.
A few months ago near us an HGV went straight through the armco central reservation into oncoming traffic. To say the results weren't pretty is one hell of an understatement.
So the concrete barrier will prevent occasional incidents like this which can have horrific consequences.
But...your point is still valid...a car/van into armco will be less likely to bounce back or will do so with far less energy. The HA question is "what is the lesser evil?".
They won't though. Remember that horrific crash on the M25 at the start of this year where an HGV went through the concrete barrier?A few months ago near us an HGV went straight through the armco central reservation into oncoming traffic. To say the results weren't pretty is one hell of an understatement.
So the concrete barrier will prevent occasional incidents like this which can have horrific consequences.
But...your point is still valid...a car/van into armco will be less likely to bounce back or will do so with far less energy. The HA question is "what is the lesser evil?".
Road network capacity is very underwhelming for a small country (England) with easy geography, high population density and being a historically 'rich' country. That's the biggest issue of all. Of course now that land is so insanely expensive and that the local will oppose any attempts to bring infrastructure into the 21st century with their NIMBY campaigns, we don't really have much hope anyway.
Better hope flying cars are on their way soon after driverless ones.
Better hope flying cars are on their way soon after driverless ones.
I've been driving the length of the M42 on a daily basis for the best part of 10 years. The system frequently infuriates me. However, I am glad to say that at least knowing which gantries contain a speed camera is simple prior observation of the opposite side.
I'm usually on there in the morning at 6:30 AM. The traffic is usually light, or at least plenty light enough to drive at 70. Many, many times I have come across a gantry stating 40 - congestion. There is no previous decreasing limit. There is no further limit after. There is no congestion - other than the other road users panic braking to meet the speed limit. However, sure enough, the gantry displaying the speed limit just happens to be the only one for 5 or 6 gantries which contains a camera. Go figure.
I'm usually on there in the morning at 6:30 AM. The traffic is usually light, or at least plenty light enough to drive at 70. Many, many times I have come across a gantry stating 40 - congestion. There is no previous decreasing limit. There is no further limit after. There is no congestion - other than the other road users panic braking to meet the speed limit. However, sure enough, the gantry displaying the speed limit just happens to be the only one for 5 or 6 gantries which contains a camera. Go figure.
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