To remap or not to remap.
Discussion
Just after some real world advice. I havn't put this in the vag section as I'm hoping for some non biased feedback on this.
I have a mk4 Vw golf estate with the 1.8T engine, 2005 model. I pretty sure it has the later ko3s turbo so it will respond to a remap very well.
BUT
What I really want to know is if it will effect the one thing I really hate about the car. I've never had a turbo before. And to be honest I'm not that keen on it. It seems that when you're cruising there always feels like there's power there, but when you want it, it's not really there. Also, when you take a tight corner you really have to change down to 2nd and even then it's very slow to pull away. It feels like 1st gear is needed, which is never been needed in any other car I've driven.
So, I'm fairly keen to remap IF it will help boost low down grunt. All I can find is power figures. I'm not particularly interested in bhp as much as drive ability. Would a remap suit my needs or is it purely for chasing figures.
Any other pro's or cons to consider.
Car has done 71k and seems to be well cared for.
I have a mk4 Vw golf estate with the 1.8T engine, 2005 model. I pretty sure it has the later ko3s turbo so it will respond to a remap very well.
BUT
What I really want to know is if it will effect the one thing I really hate about the car. I've never had a turbo before. And to be honest I'm not that keen on it. It seems that when you're cruising there always feels like there's power there, but when you want it, it's not really there. Also, when you take a tight corner you really have to change down to 2nd and even then it's very slow to pull away. It feels like 1st gear is needed, which is never been needed in any other car I've driven.
So, I'm fairly keen to remap IF it will help boost low down grunt. All I can find is power figures. I'm not particularly interested in bhp as much as drive ability. Would a remap suit my needs or is it purely for chasing figures.
Any other pro's or cons to consider.
Car has done 71k and seems to be well cared for.
Generally speaking a remap with not just increase power but will improve torque, remove flat spots and also increase fuel economy however, every remap is different, each car takes to them uniquely. The car is not designed for the extra power, the drivetrain and turbo will be under more stress.
On a car that isnt worth a right lot to start with I would go with yes, as you dont have much to lose. On a brand new, warranty car, never.
How much the car is worth to you is another matter, if you scrimped and saved to buy this then its probably no, if its just your run around then yes.
On a car that isnt worth a right lot to start with I would go with yes, as you dont have much to lose. On a brand new, warranty car, never.
How much the car is worth to you is another matter, if you scrimped and saved to buy this then its probably no, if its just your run around then yes.
rufusgti said:
Just after some real world advice. I havn't put this in the vag section as I'm hoping for some non biased feedback on this.
I have a mk4 Vw golf estate with the 1.8T engine, 2005 model. I pretty sure it has the later ko3s turbo so it will respond to a remap very well.
BUT
What I really want to know is if it will effect the one thing I really hate about the car. I've never had a turbo before. And to be honest I'm not that keen on it. It seems that when you're cruising there always feels like there's power there, but when you want it, it's not really there. Also, when you take a tight corner you really have to change down to 2nd and even then it's very slow to pull away. It feels like 1st gear is needed, which is never been needed in any other car I've driven.
So, I'm fairly keen to remap IF it will help boost low down grunt. All I can find is power figures. I'm not particularly interested in bhp as much as drive ability. Would a remap suit my needs or is it purely for chasing figures.
Any other pro's or cons to consider.
Car has done 71k and seems to be well cared for.
Sounds like youre entering the corner in the wrong gear - powerbands on such cars rely on the turbo - which doesnt kick in truly until about 3k upwards. A remap will help matters, but on a car with that many miles consider the clutch and gbox will wear prematurely. I beleive these will remap to about 190 brake and an extra 65 ft lb which will certainly help in pulling out of corners.. I have a mk4 Vw golf estate with the 1.8T engine, 2005 model. I pretty sure it has the later ko3s turbo so it will respond to a remap very well.
BUT
What I really want to know is if it will effect the one thing I really hate about the car. I've never had a turbo before. And to be honest I'm not that keen on it. It seems that when you're cruising there always feels like there's power there, but when you want it, it's not really there. Also, when you take a tight corner you really have to change down to 2nd and even then it's very slow to pull away. It feels like 1st gear is needed, which is never been needed in any other car I've driven.
So, I'm fairly keen to remap IF it will help boost low down grunt. All I can find is power figures. I'm not particularly interested in bhp as much as drive ability. Would a remap suit my needs or is it purely for chasing figures.
Any other pro's or cons to consider.
Car has done 71k and seems to be well cared for.
Young mad at work treated himself to a lovely 335 cab, it was remapped by a reputable company.
It had a dirty great flat spot, a local re map company have spent far to much time (and money) trying to diagnose it.
Runs fine as standard, big lump on remap. To me that tells me that it's a crap map. To them they've replaced and incorrectly diagnosed every sodding part in the engine, from dump valves to turbos to injectors to the wobbly valve pump.
They're now reassembling it after injectors have been cleaned, theyve convinced my lad it'll fix it. I say they're a bunch of cowboys as were the original mappers.
Time will tell who's right but to me re maps are often carried out by a monkey who adds 10% of everything and proclaims everything is better. Where as a manufacturer will spend millions on the best map for that car. You may get more bhp, but you may also rape your turbo in to a metal shard induced grave.
I read before a remap will give your trip computer false information as the injectors will pulse more, giving better mpg figures than is actually being achieved.
Your money, your map but if you wanna go faster, buy a faster car.
It had a dirty great flat spot, a local re map company have spent far to much time (and money) trying to diagnose it.
Runs fine as standard, big lump on remap. To me that tells me that it's a crap map. To them they've replaced and incorrectly diagnosed every sodding part in the engine, from dump valves to turbos to injectors to the wobbly valve pump.
They're now reassembling it after injectors have been cleaned, theyve convinced my lad it'll fix it. I say they're a bunch of cowboys as were the original mappers.
Time will tell who's right but to me re maps are often carried out by a monkey who adds 10% of everything and proclaims everything is better. Where as a manufacturer will spend millions on the best map for that car. You may get more bhp, but you may also rape your turbo in to a metal shard induced grave.
I read before a remap will give your trip computer false information as the injectors will pulse more, giving better mpg figures than is actually being achieved.
Your money, your map but if you wanna go faster, buy a faster car.
shake n bake said:
Young mad at work treated himself to a lovely 335 cab, it was remapped by a reputable company.
It had a dirty great flat spot, a local re map company have spent far to much time (and money) trying to diagnose it.
Runs fine as standard, big lump on remap. To me that tells me that it's a crap map. To them they've replaced and incorrectly diagnosed every sodding part in the engine, from dump valves to turbos to injectors to the wobbly valve pump.
They're now reassembling it after injectors have been cleaned, theyve convinced my lad it'll fix it. I say they're a bunch of cowboys as were the original mappers.
Time will tell who's right but to me re maps are often carried out by a monkey who adds 10% of everything and proclaims everything is better. Where as a manufacturer will spend millions on the best map for that car. You may get more bhp, but you may also rape your turbo in to a metal shard induced grave.
I read before a remap will give your trip computer false information as the injectors will pulse more, giving better mpg figures than is actually being achieved.
Your money, your map but if you wanna go faster, buy a faster car.
Must. Bite. Tongue.It had a dirty great flat spot, a local re map company have spent far to much time (and money) trying to diagnose it.
Runs fine as standard, big lump on remap. To me that tells me that it's a crap map. To them they've replaced and incorrectly diagnosed every sodding part in the engine, from dump valves to turbos to injectors to the wobbly valve pump.
They're now reassembling it after injectors have been cleaned, theyve convinced my lad it'll fix it. I say they're a bunch of cowboys as were the original mappers.
Time will tell who's right but to me re maps are often carried out by a monkey who adds 10% of everything and proclaims everything is better. Where as a manufacturer will spend millions on the best map for that car. You may get more bhp, but you may also rape your turbo in to a metal shard induced grave.
I read before a remap will give your trip computer false information as the injectors will pulse more, giving better mpg figures than is actually being achieved.
Your money, your map but if you wanna go faster, buy a faster car.
tumble dryer said:
shake n bake said:
Young mad at work treated himself to a lovely 335 cab, it was remapped by a reputable company.
It had a dirty great flat spot, a local re map company have spent far to much time (and money) trying to diagnose it.
Runs fine as standard, big lump on remap. To me that tells me that it's a crap map. To them they've replaced and incorrectly diagnosed every sodding part in the engine, from dump valves to turbos to injectors to the wobbly valve pump.
They're now reassembling it after injectors have been cleaned, theyve convinced my lad it'll fix it. I say they're a bunch of cowboys as were the original mappers.
Time will tell who's right but to me re maps are often carried out by a monkey who adds 10% of everything and proclaims everything is better. Where as a manufacturer will spend millions on the best map for that car. You may get more bhp, but you may also rape your turbo in to a metal shard induced grave.
I read before a remap will give your trip computer false information as the injectors will pulse more, giving better mpg figures than is actually being achieved.
Your money, your map but if you wanna go faster, buy a faster car.
Must. Bite. Tongue.It had a dirty great flat spot, a local re map company have spent far to much time (and money) trying to diagnose it.
Runs fine as standard, big lump on remap. To me that tells me that it's a crap map. To them they've replaced and incorrectly diagnosed every sodding part in the engine, from dump valves to turbos to injectors to the wobbly valve pump.
They're now reassembling it after injectors have been cleaned, theyve convinced my lad it'll fix it. I say they're a bunch of cowboys as were the original mappers.
Time will tell who's right but to me re maps are often carried out by a monkey who adds 10% of everything and proclaims everything is better. Where as a manufacturer will spend millions on the best map for that car. You may get more bhp, but you may also rape your turbo in to a metal shard induced grave.
I read before a remap will give your trip computer false information as the injectors will pulse more, giving better mpg figures than is actually being achieved.
Your money, your map but if you wanna go faster, buy a faster car.
shake n bake said:
Young mad at work treated himself to a lovely 335 cab, it was remapped by a reputable company.
It had a dirty great flat spot, a local re map company have spent far to much time (and money) trying to diagnose it.
Runs fine as standard, big lump on remap. To me that tells me that it's a crap map. To them they've replaced and incorrectly diagnosed every sodding part in the engine, from dump valves to turbos to injectors to the wobbly valve pump.
They're now reassembling it after injectors have been cleaned, theyve convinced my lad it'll fix it. I say they're a bunch of cowboys as were the original mappers.
Time will tell who's right but to me re maps are often carried out by a monkey who adds 10% of everything and proclaims everything is better. Where as a manufacturer will spend millions on the best map for that car. You may get more bhp, but you may also rape your turbo in to a metal shard induced grave.
I read before a remap will give your trip computer false information as the injectors will pulse more, giving better mpg figures than is actually being achieved.
Your money, your map but if you wanna go faster, buy a faster car.
I also agree with this had countless people claims from remaps and for them to suffer constant fault soon after. Also they fall into the trap of telling everyone it feels so much better quicker etc but have no proof to back it up. A lot of these so called will visit your place and put in a specific map of your choice, Where in reality its just a basic remap that tricks the ecu. It had a dirty great flat spot, a local re map company have spent far to much time (and money) trying to diagnose it.
Runs fine as standard, big lump on remap. To me that tells me that it's a crap map. To them they've replaced and incorrectly diagnosed every sodding part in the engine, from dump valves to turbos to injectors to the wobbly valve pump.
They're now reassembling it after injectors have been cleaned, theyve convinced my lad it'll fix it. I say they're a bunch of cowboys as were the original mappers.
Time will tell who's right but to me re maps are often carried out by a monkey who adds 10% of everything and proclaims everything is better. Where as a manufacturer will spend millions on the best map for that car. You may get more bhp, but you may also rape your turbo in to a metal shard induced grave.
I read before a remap will give your trip computer false information as the injectors will pulse more, giving better mpg figures than is actually being achieved.
Your money, your map but if you wanna go faster, buy a faster car.
The chap that did mine also owns a 406, and he tests all his maps on his own car first. All maps are derived from the cars original file so no issues.
He owns a very reputable company, ECUEdit, and everything is checked, double checked before flashing.
There are other generic maps available, which worked okay, but the custom map is more refined.
He owns a very reputable company, ECUEdit, and everything is checked, double checked before flashing.
There are other generic maps available, which worked okay, but the custom map is more refined.
Personally I wouldnt put a generic map on aa car if I was after more power - if you want it done, pay a reputable expert to do a proper job on the individual engine.
The reason you can get such significant gains is that the manufacturer map while generic has a lot of headroom built in to allow for variations in manufacturing (ie shonky parts) and fuel quality - if youre unlucky enough to have a shonky part and you just go in and turn everything up to 11 it could well result in a lunched engine
The reason you can get such significant gains is that the manufacturer map while generic has a lot of headroom built in to allow for variations in manufacturing (ie shonky parts) and fuel quality - if youre unlucky enough to have a shonky part and you just go in and turn everything up to 11 it could well result in a lunched engine
Thanks for the replies.
The car is just a cheap runabout. But seems well cared for. Having said that, if I had it mapped and the turbo or went within weeks I'd feel fairly daft.
How do I know if it's a generic or a custom. There's a Revo dealer close to me. I know revo has been round a long time so I presume it's good quality software.
Like I say I'm after more torque rather than power. It sounds like I will be able to achieve this with a remap so will start speaking to local mappers.
I'm in South Wales so if anyone knows of a reputable place let me know.
Thanks
The car is just a cheap runabout. But seems well cared for. Having said that, if I had it mapped and the turbo or went within weeks I'd feel fairly daft.
How do I know if it's a generic or a custom. There's a Revo dealer close to me. I know revo has been round a long time so I presume it's good quality software.
Like I say I'm after more torque rather than power. It sounds like I will be able to achieve this with a remap so will start speaking to local mappers.
I'm in South Wales so if anyone knows of a reputable place let me know.
Thanks
I had a 2002 passat with im guessing the same engine and even though it was not quick as standard i didnt feel any of the symptoms you describe.
Are you sure the turbo is actually working?
I had a remap carried out on it by angel tuning outside the house and had no problems, it transformed the car taking it from 150 to roughly 190 bhp.
If i were doing it again id probably go with someone like revo but had no problems at all with angel.
If you keep the car well serviced and dont drive like a tit then you will have no problems.
Are you sure the turbo is actually working?
I had a remap carried out on it by angel tuning outside the house and had no problems, it transformed the car taking it from 150 to roughly 190 bhp.
If i were doing it again id probably go with someone like revo but had no problems at all with angel.
If you keep the car well serviced and dont drive like a tit then you will have no problems.
Edited by ch427 on Thursday 3rd September 07:49
"So, I'm fairly keen to remap IF it will help boost low down grunt."
No it won't. It will help the mid range maybe and the headline power figure probably. It will still be a laggy PITA out of a corner but go a bit better higher up the rev range. At low revs with the 1.8T engine the wastegate is already shut and will not get any more shut and the turbo will be making little boost and no amount of mapping will make it produce more boost or wind up any quicker.
No it won't. It will help the mid range maybe and the headline power figure probably. It will still be a laggy PITA out of a corner but go a bit better higher up the rev range. At low revs with the 1.8T engine the wastegate is already shut and will not get any more shut and the turbo will be making little boost and no amount of mapping will make it produce more boost or wind up any quicker.
I had my car remapped and now it pulls like a train, has at least 400hp lol!
Kidding.
With regards to it boosting from low down, the only solution is to fit a smaller turbine within the turbo which will spin up quicker, but won't boost as high. The best solution would be to either drop down a gear, or wait for it to come on boost.
No amount of mapping in the world can alter the law of physics.
My car has made no difference in MPG but as I wanted everything safe it's only got around 20-30 hp more than standard, where more commonly a remap which causes more stress will see 40-60hp gains.
Before mapping though, I would put a boost gauge in to see what pressure it's running standard, and to check if you have any boost leaks. If you haven't, then I would look at a reputable mapper, such as Revo and talk to them about it.
My car now runs exclusively on super unleaded, which causes no problem to me, but it's a pita if you're low and need to fill up, especially if you're somewhere you don't know very well.
Get some performance figures before, and after, such as 0-60, 20-80 that sort of thing and you can then see the difference pre and post map.
Kidding.
With regards to it boosting from low down, the only solution is to fit a smaller turbine within the turbo which will spin up quicker, but won't boost as high. The best solution would be to either drop down a gear, or wait for it to come on boost.
No amount of mapping in the world can alter the law of physics.
My car has made no difference in MPG but as I wanted everything safe it's only got around 20-30 hp more than standard, where more commonly a remap which causes more stress will see 40-60hp gains.
Before mapping though, I would put a boost gauge in to see what pressure it's running standard, and to check if you have any boost leaks. If you haven't, then I would look at a reputable mapper, such as Revo and talk to them about it.
My car now runs exclusively on super unleaded, which causes no problem to me, but it's a pita if you're low and need to fill up, especially if you're somewhere you don't know very well.
Get some performance figures before, and after, such as 0-60, 20-80 that sort of thing and you can then see the difference pre and post map.
The 1.8 20vT engine responds well to a remap. I had my old Octavia done at 40k miles and it was going strong on original turbo and clutch when sold at 110k.
Re generic remaps, not a problem on everyday cars. Custom maps cost money and take time. Data logging being the thing that takes the time. I see lots of companies offering custom remaps for £99 and done in under an hour. Considering some tools take upto 20 minutes to read and write the map, there's no way they're giving a custom job for that.
Re generic remaps, not a problem on everyday cars. Custom maps cost money and take time. Data logging being the thing that takes the time. I see lots of companies offering custom remaps for £99 and done in under an hour. Considering some tools take upto 20 minutes to read and write the map, there's no way they're giving a custom job for that.
Might be worth getting a boost leak test done first and maybe some data logging to see if anything obvious is wrong.
I had my car (2.5 V6 with a pair of small turbos attached) on the roller a few months after purchasing it and it was down on power. Not surprising given its age. Had a boost leak test done afterwards from a fellow owners club member and then gave it a good service along with some upgrades. The same forum member then flashed a generic map which was developed by another club member over a few years and tested by many folk without any issues. Went out for a drive whilst he sat in the passengers seat tweaking the fuelling etc whilst monitoring the afr to make sure it was running right. It's been just under a year since that was done and I've had no issues with it. Will be getting it on a dyno in a couple of months to see what the power output is.
The 1.8T is a well known and commonly modded engine, I'd suggest finding a reputable tuner or enthusiast who can check it over before mapping it.
I had my car (2.5 V6 with a pair of small turbos attached) on the roller a few months after purchasing it and it was down on power. Not surprising given its age. Had a boost leak test done afterwards from a fellow owners club member and then gave it a good service along with some upgrades. The same forum member then flashed a generic map which was developed by another club member over a few years and tested by many folk without any issues. Went out for a drive whilst he sat in the passengers seat tweaking the fuelling etc whilst monitoring the afr to make sure it was running right. It's been just under a year since that was done and I've had no issues with it. Will be getting it on a dyno in a couple of months to see what the power output is.
The 1.8T is a well known and commonly modded engine, I'd suggest finding a reputable tuner or enthusiast who can check it over before mapping it.
Most turbocharged engines respond very well to a good remap.
I would always do it if I could be pretty sure that the drivetrain and engine components could handle the extra power and torque without failing 6 months down the line.
For example, in my case (pre-facelift Mondeo Ecoboost), when the car was facelifted they increased the engine power by 40bhp seemingly just by upgrading the software and making no hardware changes. I also know that my gearbox is rated for torque loads well in excess of what my engine is capable of, so I knew it was a safe bet. And a year on, it was the best £350 I've ever spent.
I would always do it if I could be pretty sure that the drivetrain and engine components could handle the extra power and torque without failing 6 months down the line.
For example, in my case (pre-facelift Mondeo Ecoboost), when the car was facelifted they increased the engine power by 40bhp seemingly just by upgrading the software and making no hardware changes. I also know that my gearbox is rated for torque loads well in excess of what my engine is capable of, so I knew it was a safe bet. And a year on, it was the best £350 I've ever spent.
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