Are modern cars really faster than old ones?
Discussion
SonicShadow said:
Yes, easily. This isn't a tyre test, so lets put track day rubber on all 3. The original Elan will still be the slowest. I wouldn't care though, it would be good fun.
How do you know it'd be the slowest?According to this test the Elan was faster than an MR2 MK3 and a MK2 MK-5 in a straight line and round a race track.
And that's might point. New cars are obviously technically brilliant and at the extreme ends will always be quicker. But the reality is, few people buy the extreme ends of the spectrum. So how would older performance cars stack up against newer ones?
I think if you are going to do comparisons you have to stick to the same or equivalent model otherwise its a loaded question saying ia an old Golf GTI as quick as a modern Up Like asking if Linford Christie can outrun a 15 year old.
I think in most cases you will find that using standard cars the newer one with be faster all round, maybe not always in straight line, I seem to have a memory of a TV show doing a drag race with the then 4 or 5 generations of Golf GTI and the Mk2 was quicker in a straight line than the Mk3 or 4
E46 M3 is going to get rinsed by a new M4
M5s now have double the power
for a good show of how Imprezas and Evos have moved on over time see this video at 11.40 for stock cars and 25.40 to see how lightly modded old cars fare against new ones.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoVzaHTRGMM
I think in most cases you will find that using standard cars the newer one with be faster all round, maybe not always in straight line, I seem to have a memory of a TV show doing a drag race with the then 4 or 5 generations of Golf GTI and the Mk2 was quicker in a straight line than the Mk3 or 4
E46 M3 is going to get rinsed by a new M4
M5s now have double the power
for a good show of how Imprezas and Evos have moved on over time see this video at 11.40 for stock cars and 25.40 to see how lightly modded old cars fare against new ones.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoVzaHTRGMM
300bhp/ton said:
How do you know it'd be the slowest?
According to this test the Elan was faster than an MR2 MK3 and a MK2 MK-5 in a straight line and round a race track.
And that's might point. New cars are obviously technically brilliant and at the extreme ends will always be quicker. But the reality is, few people buy the extreme ends of the spectrum. So how would older performance cars stack up against newer ones?
The guy drove home in the Smart. You cant believe a word he writes. Plainly a lunatic.According to this test the Elan was faster than an MR2 MK3 and a MK2 MK-5 in a straight line and round a race track.
And that's might point. New cars are obviously technically brilliant and at the extreme ends will always be quicker. But the reality is, few people buy the extreme ends of the spectrum. So how would older performance cars stack up against newer ones?
RB Will said:
I think if you are going to do comparisons you have to stick to the same or equivalent model otherwise its a loaded question
But that isn't what I want to know, or what I was asking about. So there would be no point in asking it.Round a race track I would expect (and thought it rather obvious) that e30 M3 is slower than e36 M3 is slower than e46 M3 is slower than e92 M3 and so on.
You don't really need Einstein or Sherlock Holmes to work it out.
I think a far more interesting question would be.
or
Can be had for similar money. So should make it easier for people to comprehend. e46 M3 or e90 335i.
Is the newer car still the quicker? A newer M3 is not part of the question, so don't suggest it.
300bhp/ton said:
RB Will said:
I think if you are going to do comparisons you have to stick to the same or equivalent model otherwise its a loaded question
But that isn't what I want to know, or what I was asking about. So there would be no point in asking it.Round a race track I would expect (and thought it rather obvious) that e30 M3 is slower than e36 M3 is slower than e46 M3 is slower than e92 M3 and so on.
You don't really need Einstein or Sherlock Holmes to work it out.
I think a far more interesting question would be.
or
Can be had for similar money. So should make it easier for people to comprehend. e46 M3 or e90 335i.
Is the newer car still the quicker? A newer M3 is not part of the question, so don't suggest it.
300bhp/ton said:
RB Will said:
I think if you are going to do comparisons you have to stick to the same or equivalent model otherwise its a loaded question
But that isn't what I want to know, or what I was asking about. So there would be no point in asking it.Round a race track I would expect (and thought it rather obvious) that e30 M3 is slower than e36 M3 is slower than e46 M3 is slower than e92 M3 and so on.
You don't really need Einstein or Sherlock Holmes to work it out.
I think a far more interesting question would be.
or
Can be had for similar money. So should make it easier for people to comprehend. e46 M3 or e90 335i.
Is the newer car still the quicker? A newer M3 is not part of the question, so don't suggest it.
Brilliant.
A ferrari F40 is quicker than a Fiesta.
Yes you were right all along. Progress halted in the 80's and we have frankly gone backwards.
IDid you know that a Citroen 2CV traveling a 72mph is faster than a Ferrari traveling at 70mph?
But seriously making widely speculative comparisons is dumb but 9 times out of 10 a new model of the same sportscar will beat the old model in most performance variables. Thats what why large manufacturers spend millions on R&D.
Also, a newer vehicle with equivalent power to weight ratio will beat an older car around a track in professional hands, the difference will most likely be greater in the hands of an amateur as newer driving aids make going fast easier. A good example I will cite for this is the new civic type Rs Nurburgring times. It beats many vehicles which could almost be considered supercars 15-20 years ago.
Also when talking about what can be had for "the same money" has anyone ever taught you what inflation is?
But seriously making widely speculative comparisons is dumb but 9 times out of 10 a new model of the same sportscar will beat the old model in most performance variables. Thats what why large manufacturers spend millions on R&D.
Also, a newer vehicle with equivalent power to weight ratio will beat an older car around a track in professional hands, the difference will most likely be greater in the hands of an amateur as newer driving aids make going fast easier. A good example I will cite for this is the new civic type Rs Nurburgring times. It beats many vehicles which could almost be considered supercars 15-20 years ago.
Also when talking about what can be had for "the same money" has anyone ever taught you what inflation is?
Edited by caelite on Thursday 3rd September 14:32
So now it's "is the newer car which is 2nd hand for a similar price of a model that is older but was higher up the pecking order which is now the same price as the newer but not brand new car because it's older faster than the newer version of the model below the older one? "
Depends..... Some classics are more expensive!
What a ridiculous question which keeps changing.
Equivalent models newer cars are faster. Given similar BHP/tonne newer, similar models will generally be faster.
End thread?
Depends..... Some classics are more expensive!
What a ridiculous question which keeps changing.
Equivalent models newer cars are faster. Given similar BHP/tonne newer, similar models will generally be faster.
End thread?
St John Smythe said:
Sounds like you're changing the original question to suit your argument. Might as well ask if a Mclaren F1 is faster than a Toyota Aygo. Bit pointless tbh.
Care to explain?Last time I looked an e90 is newer than an e46. Which is exactly the question. Albeit just an example.
But I didn't really want price to be the main sticking point. I really do not understand how you and the others don't understand the question? It isn't a difficult question and I was hoping for more of a discussion about current and past cars, not pr*cks picking holes in the question and trying to answer something totally different.
300bhp/ton said:
St John Smythe said:
Sounds like you're changing the original question to suit your argument. Might as well ask if a Mclaren F1 is faster than a Toyota Aygo. Bit pointless tbh.
Care to explain?Last time I looked an e90 is newer than an e46. Which is exactly the question. Albeit just an example.
300bhp/ton said:
Hypothetical example.
Two mates.
One who proclaims to be a car person, but isn't. Buys themself a new Golf GTI/Ford/Vauxhall whatever.
The other who is a more genuine car guy and instead buys something they really want. Maybe a 205 GTI or a 200SX, etc etc type of thing.
I like this. Genuine car people don't buy new cars, they prefer a knackered old hot hatch/coupe from the 80s/90s. Two mates.
One who proclaims to be a car person, but isn't. Buys themself a new Golf GTI/Ford/Vauxhall whatever.
The other who is a more genuine car guy and instead buys something they really want. Maybe a 205 GTI or a 200SX, etc etc type of thing.
E65Ross said:
300bhp/ton said:
St John Smythe said:
Sounds like you're changing the original question to suit your argument. Might as well ask if a Mclaren F1 is faster than a Toyota Aygo. Bit pointless tbh.
Care to explain?Last time I looked an e90 is newer than an e46. Which is exactly the question. Albeit just an example.
I KNOW an e90 m3 will be quicker than an e46 M3. BMW will have made sure that was the case.
E65Ross said:
So if you think everyone is being stupid then perhaps you need to look at the original question and yourself.
Let me answer that by asking you a question. Did you not read the op and the examples I gave? Did that not maybe give you an obvious clue, like wet fish slapping you in the face, that I wasn't asking is 'x' models direct replacement faster.I do not know how else to ask the question. Maybe you could have a go at rephrasing it now that you understand what I'm asking?
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