Are modern cars really faster than old ones?
Discussion
I can understand what the OP is asking, it isn't that difficult.
Have improvements in chassis etc. performance created faster cars? Not sure there have been any real improvements over the past 20 years once you take away electronic developments.
What I do know though is that cars in general are a lot less fun.
Have improvements in chassis etc. performance created faster cars? Not sure there have been any real improvements over the past 20 years once you take away electronic developments.
What I do know though is that cars in general are a lot less fun.
SidewaysSi said:
I can understand what the OP is asking, it isn't that difficult.
Have improvements in chassis etc. performance created faster cars? Not sure there have been any real improvements over the past 20 years once you take away electronic developments.
What I do know though is that cars in general are a lot less fun.
I don't really know what the OP is asking... but having done my research on this thread, I suspect the correct answer is: No. ??? What do I win?Have improvements in chassis etc. performance created faster cars? Not sure there have been any real improvements over the past 20 years once you take away electronic developments.
What I do know though is that cars in general are a lot less fun.
As for the chassis improvements.. yes, a car from 2015 will SIGNIFICANTLY out-handle a car from 20 years ago, on pretty much any road surface, the difference being more marked on pot-holed, bumpy windy roads.
To put it in context, you can probably out-handle an 80's Porsche 911 in a 2015 VW Passat on a B-road blast, even with all electronic aids turned off. Suspension design *has* improved that much in 20 years. Dry track with racing drivers may be less obvious, but the suspension has a lot less asked of it on a smooth dry surface.
SidewaysSi said:
I can understand what the OP is asking, it isn't that difficult.
Have improvements in chassis etc. performance created faster cars? Not sure there have been any real improvements over the past 20 years once you take away electronic developments.
What I do know though is that cars in general are a lot less fun.
No real improvements? Even ignoring tyre technology, cars have infinitely better brakes and lighter but stronger (and more rigid) chassis components. Have improvements in chassis etc. performance created faster cars? Not sure there have been any real improvements over the past 20 years once you take away electronic developments.
What I do know though is that cars in general are a lot less fun.
My RB5 WR sport is 237bhp. And yes its very special thanks.
I wouldn't compare it to a BRZ as A) It would piss on one..... & B) Its a totally different type of car just from the same manufacturer.
But yes modern cars are getting faster. Personally I think mainly due to them having the power pumped up to cope with their fatness.
I wouldn't compare it to a BRZ as A) It would piss on one..... & B) Its a totally different type of car just from the same manufacturer.
But yes modern cars are getting faster. Personally I think mainly due to them having the power pumped up to cope with their fatness.
Edited by rb5er on Thursday 3rd September 15:56
Auto Express made some videos about this topic some time ago, check them out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rRtHJ_cvS8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EUaPlGlSIk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wMMv3fsbH4
That's just a sample, there's quite a few different videos all with different outcomes. I don't think there's a simple or clear answer to the question I think you're asking as it varies on what modern equivalent you pit the older car against.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rRtHJ_cvS8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EUaPlGlSIk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wMMv3fsbH4
That's just a sample, there's quite a few different videos all with different outcomes. I don't think there's a simple or clear answer to the question I think you're asking as it varies on what modern equivalent you pit the older car against.
Edited by Bradley1500 on Thursday 3rd September 15:24
Edited by Bradley1500 on Thursday 3rd September 15:24
I'm going to have a stab at this..... everyone else has! 
I have £15k to spend and I want a standard car from a 'specific' manufacturer. What's 'faster' an older car (like an E46 M3) or a newer car (like an E90 335)?
I have £15k to spend and I want a standard car and I don't care about the manufacturer. What's 'faster' an older car (like an Evo8) or a newer car (like an Golf GTi)?
I 'think' that's what 300 might be asking.
Either way, glad to have you back 300!
I have £15k to spend and I want a standard car from a 'specific' manufacturer. What's 'faster' an older car (like an E46 M3) or a newer car (like an E90 335)?
I have £15k to spend and I want a standard car and I don't care about the manufacturer. What's 'faster' an older car (like an Evo8) or a newer car (like an Golf GTi)?
I 'think' that's what 300 might be asking.
Either way, glad to have you back 300!
Here are two lists:
List 1. The things that make a modern car potentially faster:
1) More power
2) Better brakes
3) Better suspension (roll control, kinematics, damping, Stiffness etc etc)
4) More gears and much faster shifting
5) Stiffer bodyshell
6) Chassis Electronic Feature Content (ABS, DSC, brake steer, E diffs etc)
7) Much wider power band (high torque at low engine speed)
8) Better aerodynamics (less drag, lower lift)
9) Easier / less physical to drive (powersteer etc)
10) Significantly wider tyres which develop high grip through modern Silica enhanced compounds
11) Improved durability at high load (ie engines don't go "bang" like they used too etc
List 2. The things that make a modern car potentially slower:
1) Bit heavier.
List 1. The things that make a modern car potentially faster:
1) More power
2) Better brakes
3) Better suspension (roll control, kinematics, damping, Stiffness etc etc)
4) More gears and much faster shifting
5) Stiffer bodyshell
6) Chassis Electronic Feature Content (ABS, DSC, brake steer, E diffs etc)
7) Much wider power band (high torque at low engine speed)
8) Better aerodynamics (less drag, lower lift)
9) Easier / less physical to drive (powersteer etc)
10) Significantly wider tyres which develop high grip through modern Silica enhanced compounds
11) Improved durability at high load (ie engines don't go "bang" like they used too etc
List 2. The things that make a modern car potentially slower:
1) Bit heavier.
so the question is if you have x amount of money and want to buy a certain type of car would you be better getting an old maybe slightly modded one or a new one?
I think I answered that with the Scoob/ evo vid I posted
Both the new models wiped the floor with the older tuned stuff but that is comparing things in a similar price range.
if you were to say is it faster to buy a standard jag F type coupe vs a R32 GTR with £50K spent on it then I reckon the GTR will walk it.
Chassis performance has come a long way. My E30 325IS was a dead heat in a drag with a BMW 120D. So I had the better PWR but the newer car made better use of it. I expect on a track the 120D would leave mine for dead.
Going back to the original question wouldnt like to put money on it but I would happily believe the BRZ would beat an RB5/Turbo 2000 around a track.
I think I answered that with the Scoob/ evo vid I posted
Both the new models wiped the floor with the older tuned stuff but that is comparing things in a similar price range.
if you were to say is it faster to buy a standard jag F type coupe vs a R32 GTR with £50K spent on it then I reckon the GTR will walk it.
Chassis performance has come a long way. My E30 325IS was a dead heat in a drag with a BMW 120D. So I had the better PWR but the newer car made better use of it. I expect on a track the 120D would leave mine for dead.
Going back to the original question wouldnt like to put money on it but I would happily believe the BRZ would beat an RB5/Turbo 2000 around a track.
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