Can a car BE 'over-rated'?

[anonymous-user]

Tonto said:

PTF said:

Integra Type-R DC2

Agree.

My first drive of one I was underwhelmed. The second drive was on my own and I put a deposit down for one. A car that rewards you when you work it, never 'over-rated', not a chance.

[ORD]

Over-rated: modern automatics of all kinds. The ones described as fairly good are horrendous, and the ones described as excellent are merely satisfactory most of the time.

PDK is the best that I have driven, and it puts the others to shame, but it's still far from excellent for a number of reasons. The ZF8 is average in the 320d, and I find it hard to believe that it becomes wonderful with a bit of reprogramming for other cars.

The number of cars that you cannot now buy with a manual box is really depressing.

[Malachimon]

Here's one that might irritate some people.

Nissan Skyline GTR R34

It's ugly mainly but you know something is wrong with a car when you have to tune it to make it somewhat exciting. Great engine just in the wrong car.

[rb5er]

robm3 said:

First generation of Impreza WRX's.....



I had Peugeot Mi16 at the time and took a new WRX for a drive, yes it was quicker in a straight line than the Mi16 but the understeer, suspension compliance and gearshift was horrendous!!
At the time the press was saying it was faster than any supercar point to point, yeah right. Big let down for me.

Weird. They have very soft & compliant suspension and a well reknowned great gearshift.

Understeer only if driven incorrectly. Strange anyone sees things so differently from well documented opinion.

Edit: Ah yes compared to a barge like a 405 is probably is stiffly sprung. And the gearshift you were probably confused by it having a mechanical and positive feel compared to stirring the porridge bowl of a peugeot gearbox.

[gizlaroc]

TB303 said:

The M135i has been mentioned a few times here, and I'm inclined to agree.

I have one at the moment and got it on a lease deal. It's incredibly quick, has numb steering and is just a bit boring somehow.

It is actually a good car overall, but it's not a Petrolhead car by any stretch other than it being fast and RWD. I'd never get up on a Sunday morning to go driving in it. Ever.

I won't miss it much when it goes back next year, but equally am not quite sure what to replace it with.

Something older that has some 'soul'.

I hate that word, but it is true, how many new cars feel special?

Facelifted 5.0 XK-R with only 25k miles on it for less than the M135i. The XK-R feels special, not stunningly raw, or the most luxurious car in the world, but does feel special in a way most new German marques fail.

[ORD]

Auto only, isn't it? Not much soul in that!

[mikey k]

yonex said:

S2000. I drove pretty much every variant of these and although the suspension improved over the years it was still a very flawed car. Very disappointing for a Honda fan.

Just goes to show
I've owned 5 of them (one of most variants) and love them, IMHO under rated

[Dblue]

ORD said:

Over-rated: modern automatics of all kinds. The ones described as fairly good are horrendous, and the ones described as excellent are merely satisfactory most of the time.

PDK is the best that I have driven, and it puts the others to shame, but it's still far from excellent for a number of reasons. The ZF8 is average in the 320d, and I find it hard to believe that it becomes wonderful with a bit of reprogramming for other cars.

The number of cars that you cannot now buy with a manual box is really depressing.

Porsche PDK is OK but the GTR box is way more interactive/fun than the non-GT3 Porsche box. BMW's DCT is pretty damn good as is the Ferrari box.

[Leins]

crbox said:

I agree. When new, I tried so hard to like this car, I test drove to three times. Each time I couldn't get away from the awful semi auto gearbox. A huge arrogance by BMW to showcase their flawed SMG gearbox on customers, most who felt blackmailed. I resisted, bought an RS6 Avant which had a similar paddle box, but was far more intuitive.
I also thought the vulnerable blips of carbon fibre on the front spoiler and elsewhere a further smug marketing gimmick of no engineering benefit. Such distain undermined what could have been one of BMWs finest hours.

May I ask if were you looking at buying the CSL for a daily driver? Whilst I like RS6s, it's not exactly a similar type of vehicle

[cerb4.5lee]

ORD said:

The ZF8 is average in the 320d, and I find it hard to believe that it becomes wonderful with a bit of reprogramming for other cars.

The number of cars that you cannot now buy with a manual box is really depressing.

Have the ZF8 in a 640d and after reading about the gearbox on here my expectations were very high...they shouldn't have been! its just like any other slush box nothing wrong with it but its just a slush box.

Agree also about the number of performance cars that don't offer a manual box anymore but to be fair if you use a M4/M235i as examples hardly anyone specs them with a manual so its difficult to blame the manufacturer.

[405dogvan]

ZesPak said:

What's a DMF? My 159 has 120k and can't recall any expesive work, besides the DPF, which was about £700 to replace at 90k miles.

Edited to add: Oh and tyres. It loves tyres.

Edited by ZesPak on Tuesday 8th September 09:25

DMF = Dual Mass Flywheel - once the province of diesels, these expensive and fragile items now pollute a wide range of cars and often like being replaced as-often and sometimes even MORE often than clutches...

Alfa had a rep for being worse than most - some believe there are solutions (such as not leaving cars in-gear when parking them and not towing) but they remain another expensive item on the todo list.

[leonintegra36]

greygoose said:

leonintegra36 said:

I defy any car enthusiast to drive my dc2 and not agree it is a very special car indeed.
I have never had a bad integra type r dc2 just degrees of excellence. Maybe you just drove a tired one or one with a neglected drivetrain/transmission. My cherished example drives spot on and would receive admiration from any car enthusiast at any level. Unfortunately it sits more than it drives as I want to preserve the car which pains me greatly. I've driven my current example only the once in fact and a good dc2 is strong and tactile enough to not even need to access vtec, but when it does it is truly spectacular. Raw for some, but the special occasion feeling of driving a good example has only been enhanced with age, especially in comparison with the latest lard infested euro boxes. The handling balance and control weights are all harmonious.

So why don't you actually drive it then?

In response to a few about why I don't drive my integra, as I said I am preserving an icon. I have had four since 2000 and used them as daily drivers. Now however I only know of a couple of other decent ones left, but mine drives spot on which is priceless. I may dig it out for an evo greatest of all time feature, in exchange for a go in an F40 perhaps.

[crbox]

Leins said:

crbox said:

I agree. When new, I tried so hard to like this car, I test drove to three times. Each time I couldn't get away from the awful semi auto gearbox. A huge arrogance by BMW to showcase their flawed SMG gearbox on customers, most who felt blackmailed. I resisted, bought an RS6 Avant which had a similar paddle box, but was far more intuitive.
I also thought the vulnerable blips of carbon fibre on the front spoiler and elsewhere a further smug marketing gimmick of no engineering benefit. Such distain undermined what could have been one of BMWs finest hours.

May I ask if were you looking at buying the CSL for a daily driver? Whilst I like RS6s, it's not exactly a similar type of vehicle

Hi Leins. Yes I was looking at the CSL as a weekend family car (2 kids) and performance daily driver. At £59,500 it pretty much had to be! At time the M3 was considered a real 911 alternative from a driving perspective and this was supposed to be the best M3. When the car was announced, I loved the concept, the look, the colour, the suede. If ever a car had my name on it this was it. But I just couldn't get on with the jerky gearbox. The RS6 was the car of the moment back then and the gearbox on that is much smoother. You are right the RS6 is not directly comparable and itself also flawed, if you want driver involvement. My best family wagon was a Volvo 850R incidentally.
After the RS6 I went back to an old skool 911, a 1989 model 3,2 sport coupe that was stored from new! I've driven that every day since 2005 and simply adore it. I'm lucky enough to also own a genuine AC Cobra and a Works Austin Healey 3000 rally car, but the old 911 is all things, for me.

[Leins]

crbox said:

Hi Leins. Yes I was looking at the CSL as a weekend family car (2 kids) and performance daily driver. At £59,500 it pretty much had to be! At time the M3 was considered a real 911 alternative from a driving perspective and this was supposed to be the best M3. When the car was announced, I loved the concept, the look, the colour, the suede. If ever a car had my name on it this was it. But I just couldn't get on with the jerky gearbox. The RS6 was the car of the moment back then and the gearbox on that is much smoother. You are right the RS6 is not directly comparable and itself also flawed, if you want driver involvement. My best family wagon was a Volvo 850R incidentally.
After the RS6 I went back to an old skool 911, a 1989 model 3,2 sport coupe that was stored from new! I've driven that every day since 2005 and simply adore it. I'm lucky enough to also own a genuine AC Cobra and a Works Austin Healey 3000 rally car, but the old 911 is all things, for me.

Thanks CRBox - have to say the CSL would do my head in as a daily, both from a driving and a care point of view, so I understand where you are coming from on that. I only have the car for occasional weekend blasts and the odd road-trip, but the noise and the rawness of the car do it for me every time

Nice car collection btw! I've heard of a few people running 3.2s & 964s as daily drivers (one a CSL owner), which actually sounds very appealing

[Escort Si-130]

Jaguar XJ220 - surprised no one has mentioned this.


Fiat Coupe and its Alfa Romeo cousin.

[gizlaroc]

I used my CSL as a daily, great car, and the SMG 'box is silky smooth if you want it to be, just lift off the gas as you change and put it in S4 or higher so it changes quickly.

[anonymous-user]

crbox said:

I'm lucky enough to also own a genuine AC Cobra and a Works Austin Healey 3000 rally car, but the old 911 is all things, for me.

Obviously that had me looking at your profile... Loving your companies product names

[Joe5y]

I put forward the Peugeot 306 GTi-6.

Slow, unrefined, boring, underwhelming and a Peugeot. Since it's first launch many hailed it as one of the best hot-hatches on the market and as such I wanted one. Got one, sold it after 6 months - massively 'over-rated'.

[T0MMY]

Joe5y said:

I put forward the Peugeot 306 GTi-6.

Slow, unrefined, boring, underwhelming and a Peugeot. Since it's first launch many hailed it as one of the best hot-hatches on the market and as such I wanted one. Got one, sold it after 6 months - massively 'over-rated'.

This one I really disagree with!

I'm not quite sure what contemporary rivals you're comparing it to to call it "slow", it was quicker than its direct competitors and had much better handling. What similar hot hatch of that era was better? These were great cars and frankly are probably a better driver's car than many modern equivalents. That said, if the badge and the level of refinement was ever even an issue in buying a hot hatch then you might have preferred a VAG product or something.

[cerb4.5lee]

Joe5y said:

I put forward the Peugeot 306 GTi-6.

Slow, unrefined, boring, underwhelming and a Peugeot. Since it's first launch many hailed it as one of the best hot-hatches on the market and as such I wanted one. Got one, sold it after 6 months - massively 'over-rated'.

This is sad to hear and I have never owned a French car but I have liked these ever since they were launched.