Can a car BE 'over-rated'?
Discussion
I'm going to add a brand new car into the mix - the Honda Civic Type R. All reviews have been glowing but I just didn't like it. I had the old EP3 which I sold at 103k miles and if I was offered the choice of a brand new one or my old car back I'd take old faithful every time.
The new one has no soul. I thought it would have the best of both worlds - VTEC and a turbo, but I feel you get the worst of both. Not enough rev range and not enough torque. Just a dull engine. All the track times suggest that it's faster than my hawk STi but it doesn't feel it. And the rear brakes look weedy with the massive wheels.
Curiously, the thing I liked most was the ride (which everyone seems to hate), they styling and the seats.
The new one has no soul. I thought it would have the best of both worlds - VTEC and a turbo, but I feel you get the worst of both. Not enough rev range and not enough torque. Just a dull engine. All the track times suggest that it's faster than my hawk STi but it doesn't feel it. And the rear brakes look weedy with the massive wheels.
Curiously, the thing I liked most was the ride (which everyone seems to hate), they styling and the seats.
• Golf GTI - as mentioned previously, just dull. I've had a Mk1 and Mk2 16v and while I still love the styling, the driving experience was very meh. MrsAbitlike has a Jetta TFSI and while fast, that too is instantly forgettable inside and out.
• Audi - I've had 3 and they are quite unremarkable, if capable. First one (Coupe-based Cabrio) bought for it's looks; second (A4 3.0 quattro sport) as I needed a family car and lastly a 2002 S8 as the A4 wasn't as accommodating for a family as I thought it would be. In addition, I had a ride in a child-hood hero of mine, an original quattro turbo. Talk about never meet your heroes; what a let-down.
• Jaguar XJ220 - I've had 4 of them... I jest, but I was at the launch at the Birmingham Motor Show and even then I remember thinking it looked like an undefined bloated lump on wheels. I still think that now, there's no redeeming feature whatsoever.
Car that hit the spot: Peugeot 205 GTI - just brilliant.
• Audi - I've had 3 and they are quite unremarkable, if capable. First one (Coupe-based Cabrio) bought for it's looks; second (A4 3.0 quattro sport) as I needed a family car and lastly a 2002 S8 as the A4 wasn't as accommodating for a family as I thought it would be. In addition, I had a ride in a child-hood hero of mine, an original quattro turbo. Talk about never meet your heroes; what a let-down.
• Jaguar XJ220 - I've had 4 of them... I jest, but I was at the launch at the Birmingham Motor Show and even then I remember thinking it looked like an undefined bloated lump on wheels. I still think that now, there's no redeeming feature whatsoever.
Car that hit the spot: Peugeot 205 GTI - just brilliant.
McLaren F1.
Putting outstanding credentials aside (drivetrain, 3 seat interior), I really think it looks rather ugly, has a brake setup bettered by a new Megane RS, and from those in the know (flemke, harris) has unresolved handling issues such as lots of roll at the rear.
It's still obviously an all-time great, but the eulogising and devotion goes too far.
Putting outstanding credentials aside (drivetrain, 3 seat interior), I really think it looks rather ugly, has a brake setup bettered by a new Megane RS, and from those in the know (flemke, harris) has unresolved handling issues such as lots of roll at the rear.
It's still obviously an all-time great, but the eulogising and devotion goes too far.
Always get shocked looks when I say this but i found my CLK63 Black Series an enormous let down.Such an iconic car but I hated mine.
Its a nice enough looking thing but its a CLK coupe very similar to a 180 diesel inside except for highly awkward high winged seats making every entry and exit tricky.So that entails a tiny rev counter to the side of the binnacle, the stupid foot operated parking brake and pretty piss poor plastics for a £100k car.
The (Also hugely overated) 6.2 litre V8 sounds wonderful at low speeds and rumbling around town and certainly has torque and power a plenty but its entirely linear in its delivery so the high revving explosive nature of an authentic sports car motor is absent. Its frankly as exciting at 3000 rpm as it is at 7k.Its also blunted by a 1750kg kerb weight so whilst fast is not the supercar chaser you would imagine. A ferrari V8 or Mezger flat 6 is much better.
Its a playful predictable chassis certainly but traction is laughable and the whole thing is just ruined by the massively annoying torque convertor auto box.
Lasted 7 weeks with me.
Its a nice enough looking thing but its a CLK coupe very similar to a 180 diesel inside except for highly awkward high winged seats making every entry and exit tricky.So that entails a tiny rev counter to the side of the binnacle, the stupid foot operated parking brake and pretty piss poor plastics for a £100k car.
The (Also hugely overated) 6.2 litre V8 sounds wonderful at low speeds and rumbling around town and certainly has torque and power a plenty but its entirely linear in its delivery so the high revving explosive nature of an authentic sports car motor is absent. Its frankly as exciting at 3000 rpm as it is at 7k.Its also blunted by a 1750kg kerb weight so whilst fast is not the supercar chaser you would imagine. A ferrari V8 or Mezger flat 6 is much better.
Its a playful predictable chassis certainly but traction is laughable and the whole thing is just ruined by the massively annoying torque convertor auto box.
Lasted 7 weeks with me.
GreenArrow said:
Over-rated or under-rated is subjective
The motoring media tend to "over-rate" Fords, VAG cars and BMWs and under-rate Jap and far east cars, that's my honest opinion. I am not sure if it is because the former spend more money on advertising and the mags don't want to upset them. If you look at reliability surveys and owner satisfaction, Japs and far east cars rule, the germans less so. That would suggest the former are under-rated, the latter over-rated.
+1The motoring media tend to "over-rate" Fords, VAG cars and BMWs and under-rate Jap and far east cars, that's my honest opinion. I am not sure if it is because the former spend more money on advertising and the mags don't want to upset them. If you look at reliability surveys and owner satisfaction, Japs and far east cars rule, the germans less so. That would suggest the former are under-rated, the latter over-rated.
Non GT3/RS Porsche 911s are overrated by some magazines, as is the Boxster/Cayman range of cars. All this b
ks spouted about their 'solidity, bomp proof reliability, driving dynamics second to none etc' The reality is that although very good and unique in their own way, the 911s are not as 'great' as they are made out to be, and they are overall certainly not as reliable as the magazines would like us to believe. Definitely agree with JDM cars being under rated - snob value being applied I think because it's not the same in other countries.
I tend to like cars that are nimble so the UK has some internationally under rated marques in the form of Lotus, Ultima and Nobel. Swear if they were made in the US or Germnay, we'd be all over them.
I'd like to add TVR to that list but we'll have to see whether the new management has a grip on QC.
I tend to like cars that are nimble so the UK has some internationally under rated marques in the form of Lotus, Ultima and Nobel. Swear if they were made in the US or Germnay, we'd be all over them.
I'd like to add TVR to that list but we'll have to see whether the new management has a grip on QC.
Dblue said:
Always get shocked looks when I say this but i found my CLK63 Black Series an enormous let down.Such an iconic car but I hated mine.
Its a nice enough looking thing but its a CLK coupe very similar to a 180 diesel inside except for highly awkward high winged seats making every entry and exit tricky.So that entails a tiny rev counter to the side of the binnacle, the stupid foot operated parking brake and pretty piss poor plastics for a £100k car.
The (Also hugely overated) 6.2 litre V8 sounds wonderful at low speeds and rumbling around town and certainly has torque and power a plenty but its entirely linear in its delivery so the high revving explosive nature of an authentic sports car motor is absent. Its frankly as exciting at 3000 rpm as it is at 7k.Its also blunted by a 1750kg kerb weight so whilst fast is not the supercar chaser you would imagine. A ferrari V8 or Mezger flat 6 is much better.
Its a playful predictable chassis certainly but traction is laughable and the whole thing is just ruined by the massively annoying torque convertor auto box.
Lasted 7 weeks with me.
This is very disappointing to hear, as one of these was very much on my target list down the line (never driven one though). Difficult to know what else comparable there is in the market, especially now that any 911 GTx has gone so expensiveIts a nice enough looking thing but its a CLK coupe very similar to a 180 diesel inside except for highly awkward high winged seats making every entry and exit tricky.So that entails a tiny rev counter to the side of the binnacle, the stupid foot operated parking brake and pretty piss poor plastics for a £100k car.
The (Also hugely overated) 6.2 litre V8 sounds wonderful at low speeds and rumbling around town and certainly has torque and power a plenty but its entirely linear in its delivery so the high revving explosive nature of an authentic sports car motor is absent. Its frankly as exciting at 3000 rpm as it is at 7k.Its also blunted by a 1750kg kerb weight so whilst fast is not the supercar chaser you would imagine. A ferrari V8 or Mezger flat 6 is much better.
Its a playful predictable chassis certainly but traction is laughable and the whole thing is just ruined by the massively annoying torque convertor auto box.
Lasted 7 weeks with me.
Would love to get a drive of an Alpina B3 GT3 at some point
PTF said:
Integra Type-R DC2
Excuse me dear, do know where you are? 
It's all subjective though isn't it? I mean in your profile you've got a picture of Caterhams racing, and you probably think that's the pinnacle of driving. Fair enough, but if you own any normal sporty car and drove a DC2, you'd probably think it was amazing.
Edited by iloveboost on Monday 7th September 18:15
jl34 said:
Over rated - Porsche 911 (997 carrera). Went for a nice long drive of a friends car for a couple of hours and it was just so incredibly dull. It handled well and went well, but my god a sports car is supposed to excite you and this didnt. I wouldnt knock anyone that like's them though as if you wanted a daily driver with ability im sure they tick the box. However as a car to jump into to blow away the cobwebs and feel special ,,er no.
Under-rated - AM V8 vantage! people that dont get excited about sinking into the cockpit of one of the most beautiful production cars and firing up the nascar sounding V8 really can't be petrol heads. The handling was terrific and the noise of that engine bouncing off the walls made me cackle with glee. Emotion on another level , but a great drive too. If the fact that the early 4.3 cars are not sub 5 secs to 60 , well who the hell cares?, its plenty quick for the real world and makes you feel special like few others cars out there.
I have yet to drive an AMV8, but I am inclined to take your word for it...I think the V8 Vantage, especially later in its life, has really come to be the 'tactile' choice too. Even EVO Magazine (Twin of Porsche Magazine) stated, (rather astonishingly) that the AMV V8 was the more enjoyable drive. This was in a recent group test. Under-rated - AM V8 vantage! people that dont get excited about sinking into the cockpit of one of the most beautiful production cars and firing up the nascar sounding V8 really can't be petrol heads. The handling was terrific and the noise of that engine bouncing off the walls made me cackle with glee. Emotion on another level , but a great drive too. If the fact that the early 4.3 cars are not sub 5 secs to 60 , well who the hell cares?, its plenty quick for the real world and makes you feel special like few others cars out there.
E92 M3 and I found it to be very over rated after owning one and I was also left pretty underwhelmed by the E46 M3 when I had a go in one.
I think sometimes you build cars up in your head from reading about them online or magazine reviews and it raises expectations really high but actually living with the car day to day is the only way to really know whether its any good or not and whether it lives up to the hype.
On the other hand the Aston Martin Vantage gets slated on here and I wonder if that's as bad as people say and again I think ownership is the only way to tell.
I think sometimes you build cars up in your head from reading about them online or magazine reviews and it raises expectations really high but actually living with the car day to day is the only way to really know whether its any good or not and whether it lives up to the hype.
On the other hand the Aston Martin Vantage gets slated on here and I wonder if that's as bad as people say and again I think ownership is the only way to tell.
Olivera said:
+1 on the Fabia vRS, dire engine, shambolic handling and twice price it should be.
Yeah I have to agree. It's not a bad warm hatch with a punchy engine and good fuel economy, but it's not hot. Same as the 1.6 Cooper D. Some people buy one instead of a petrol hot hatch then spend loads of money tuning it so it's as good to drive. Eh?! There are a lot of comments, split both ways, regarding the 911 and MX5. I have owned 2 of the former and 3 of the latter. I don't think they are underrated or overrated, in fact they are probably CORRECTLY rated by most people. In regards to the 911 both mine have been 996 variants (targa & turbo). I have owned the targa for 6 years during which time nothing has gone wrong and it has cost no more than a 'normal' car to service. It will do 0-60 in 5 seconds, sounds glorious (with a K&N air box) easily returns 35mpg on a run and is very comfortable. I think it is exactly what it is supposed to be, an everyday junior supercar. Its so good that when i wanted to replace it (just for changes sake) i tried a few cars, including the AMV8 which, in my humble opinion, was not a good a car as the 996. So i have 'just' bought a 996tt. Its new to me so i cant report anything yet other than it is a rocket ship and i am hoping it is every bit as good as the targa.
Now on to the MX5. How a car that you can pick up for £1,000 (or less) is rwd, convertible, manual and lightweight be overrated is beyond me. I still have one and use it for my daily car, its an immaculate mk1, has 50,000 miles, fsh and a couple of owners and was under £2,000. It is a revelation to drive, full of feel and fun at low speeds. Again it is not over or under rated, but is just a great value car.
As my dad told me, if you get a fast car make sure its fun to drive slowly and if you get a slow car make sure its fun to drive fast! Its quite a good rule.
Using this my underrated and overrated list would be very different as its all down to expectation. For instance a K11 micra 1.3 can be a peach, nippy, agile and quite good fun, no one would look at it twice, a HUGELY underrated car. An overrated car (only speaking from experience of driving) would be a Ferrari 458, incredibly expensive but with its auto gearbox and play-station dash it offers no real fun, its just flash and fast. It is a great car but even still it is overrated as it seems to be so highly rated by all the press how could it be anything else.....
Now on to the MX5. How a car that you can pick up for £1,000 (or less) is rwd, convertible, manual and lightweight be overrated is beyond me. I still have one and use it for my daily car, its an immaculate mk1, has 50,000 miles, fsh and a couple of owners and was under £2,000. It is a revelation to drive, full of feel and fun at low speeds. Again it is not over or under rated, but is just a great value car.
As my dad told me, if you get a fast car make sure its fun to drive slowly and if you get a slow car make sure its fun to drive fast! Its quite a good rule.
Using this my underrated and overrated list would be very different as its all down to expectation. For instance a K11 micra 1.3 can be a peach, nippy, agile and quite good fun, no one would look at it twice, a HUGELY underrated car. An overrated car (only speaking from experience of driving) would be a Ferrari 458, incredibly expensive but with its auto gearbox and play-station dash it offers no real fun, its just flash and fast. It is a great car but even still it is overrated as it seems to be so highly rated by all the press how could it be anything else.....
I have just sold my V8 Vantage roadster after 5 years. I gave it ample opportunity for me to like it and I never did. Good marketing job by Aston but it just failed to deliver in nearly every department, except the noise perhaps. I suppose it never ever really got any rave reviews so in that department I suppose it wasn't over rated. It never ever became that 911 slayer it was supposed to be and for that reason it was and remains totally over rated.
Grey Ghost said:
When they were first advertised the AMV8 Vantage was supposed to be a "£60K Porsche 911 eater" and yet when the final specs were released the "all new" 4.3 V8 was a small re-working of an existing 4.2 V8, the standard 18" wheels kept failing in impact tests so potential owners were asked to pay out north of £1K for the 19" ones, the satnav and significant parts of the switch gear came from Ford and Volvo and the overall package was totally underwhelming. I placed a deposit and then had it returned when it turned out the cost of the car was to be c£88K when specced up and given enough "goodies" to be desirable, and even then the performance stats were still terrible.
As such, total over rated based on hype and press releases when first available.
As such, total over rated based on hype and press releases when first available.
KaraK said:
For me it's the EP3 Civic Type-R, every man and his dog - both journos and regular joes raved about it like it was the second coming of B-road blasters. Test drove one down some supposedly ideal roads that I knew well and even if I ignore what is probably my personal preferences coming in to play with the steering (it was precise enough but had all the feel of a XBOX pad to me) then I was pretty massively underwhelmed. More boring than tapwater off-VTEC and whilst not a bad drive it certainly didn't feel like anything special.
I must say I totally agree. After nearly 5 years of owning my MK3 MR2, I was offered a fantastic deal on my friend's low mileage EP3 Type R. With the hype behind them being so overwhelming, I thought it'd be a no brainer to swap my aging '2 for younger car with less wear. Although there were definitely plus points to the car (it felt solid and was a great functional car, plus Vtec is quite fun), I walked away from the test drive thoroughly disappointed. The steering feel was abysmal and gave you no confidence as to where the front wheels were pointing, which killed the driving experience. They're definitely not bad cars by any stretch, but the hot hatch legend that they're so often touted as? Not in a million years!Bispal said:
Now on to the MX5. How a car that you can pick up for £1,000 (or less) is rwd, convertible, manual and lightweight be overrated is beyond me. I still have one and use it for my daily car, its an immaculate mk1, has 50,000 miles, fsh and a couple of owners and was under £2,000. It is a revelation to drive, full of feel and fun at low speeds. Again it is not over or under rated, but is just a great value car.
Bingo...you can only say an MX5 is over rated if you're comparing it to far more expensive opposition. You'd really struggle to find something more fun than an MX5 for £2k, unless your definition of fun is just straight line speed or you prefer FWD. I've tried shedloads of cheap track and road cars and the MX5 was by far the most entertaining to drive. I think part of the problem is people have a quick go in one and if they've just jumped out of a much faster car the first thing they notice is the lack of power whilst not giving it a chance to get used to it and really throw it around. There are also an awful lot of car enthusiasts who actually don't really care that much about handling and don't really push cars that hard who would be pretty disappointed if they judged it purely on it's engine, comfort or style.
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