Can a car BE 'over-rated'?
Discussion
Picture the scene. Read all the mags, frenzy of gushing reviews, need a nice little coupe for wifely the 335i is out of warranty and a bit of a big bugger to park in Tesco car park. All excited rush down to friendly Toyota dealer at bottom of road collect demo car, GT86.
....
...........
...............
What an absolute pile of s
te. insanely noisy inside, flat as a fart even when you thrash the living daylights out of it, plastics that came out of a 1986 Cavalier, the seat adjustment lever actually fell off, horrible instruments just a shockingly over hyped pile of dross. expected the third coming with the steering "feel" and handling, what I got was less grip than a shopping trolley, and OK handling.
Am I missing something?
mind you I would appear not to be the only one given pretty poor sales, multiple price cuts and poor residuals.
Moral : Never trust a journalist. 😋
....
...........
...............
What an absolute pile of s
te. insanely noisy inside, flat as a fart even when you thrash the living daylights out of it, plastics that came out of a 1986 Cavalier, the seat adjustment lever actually fell off, horrible instruments just a shockingly over hyped pile of dross. expected the third coming with the steering "feel" and handling, what I got was less grip than a shopping trolley, and OK handling.Am I missing something?
mind you I would appear not to be the only one given pretty poor sales, multiple price cuts and poor residuals.
Moral : Never trust a journalist. 😋
Had a 2007 V8 Vantage Roadster recently bumped by one of my neighbours and was off the road for about a month. I was given 2 loan cars during this period. I must emphasise I've never been a fan of the reputation that the 911 carries. Loan car 1 was a 911 Carrera 4 convertible. Absolutely glorious sports car which I cannot really find fault with. It does everything it's supposed to, and will probably be reliable all it's life. Loan car 2 was a convertible Bentley Continental GT V8 S. Big wallowy boat of a car. Absolutely couldn't see the point as to why anyone would pay just short of 200 grand for such an underwhelming car. Build quality is no better than a top of the range Merc or Audi. Eventually got my Aston back from the repairers and promptly sold it. It had been the most unreliable rust bucket I have ever owned. I didn't dare put serious miles on it because of the depreciation and the staggering amount of unburnt fuel p**sing out the back. If there is one and only aspect of the Vantage that I actually loved and miss slightly, it would be the gorgeous exhaust note. Other positive qualities, apart from it being a very pretty car, none that I can think of. I wouldn't touch another Aston with a barge pole. Almost forgot to mention the incredibly amateurish service I received from a large Aston main dealer beginning with S. They even lost my leather bound manual/service book and denied all responsibility,...
Had a 2007 V8 Vantage Roadster recently bumped by one of my neighbours and was off the road for about a month. I was given 2 loan cars during this period. I must emphasise I've never been a fan of the reputation that the 911 carries. Loan car 1 was a 911 Carrera 4 convertible. Absolutely glorious sports car which I cannot really find fault with. It does everything it's supposed to, and will probably be reliable all it's life. Loan car 2 was a convertible Bentley Continental GT V8 S. Big wallowy boat of a car. Absolutely couldn't see the point as to why anyone would pay just short of 200 grand for such an underwhelming car. Build quality is no better than a top of the range Merc or Audi. Eventually got my Aston back from the repairers and promptly sold it. It had been the most unreliable rust bucket I have ever owned. I didn't dare put serious miles on it because of the depreciation and the staggering amount of unburnt fuel p**sing out the back. If there is one and only aspect of the Vantage that I actually loved and miss slightly, it would be the gorgeous exhaust note. Other positive qualities, apart from it being a very pretty car, none that I can think of. I wouldn't touch another Aston with a barge pole. Almost forgot to mention the incredibly amateurish service I received from a large Aston main dealer beginning with S. They even lost my leather bound manual/service book and denied all responsibility,...
chelme said:
jl34 said:
Under-rated - AM V8 vantage! people that dont get excited about sinking into the cockpit of one of the most beautiful production cars and firing up the nascar sounding V8 really can't be petrol heads. The handling was terrific and the noise of that engine bouncing off the walls made me cackle with glee. Emotion on another level , but a great drive too. If the fact that the early 4.3 cars are not sub 5 secs to 60 , well who the hell cares?, its plenty quick for the real world and makes you feel special like few others cars out there.
I have yet to drive an AMV8, but I am inclined to take your word for it...I think the V8 Vantage, especially later in its life, has really come to be the 'tactile' choice too. Even EVO Magazine (Twin of Porsche Magazine) stated, (rather astonishingly) that the AMV V8 was the more enjoyable drive. This was in a recent group test. In no way are they under rated, they are actually over sold
Both mine had sport packs, they handled OK but ran out of puff on overtakes
Unreliable and depreciate like hell
Real event to drive though
underated? Honda S2000 McLaren MP12-4C/650S?
Olivera said:
McLaren F1.
Putting outstanding credentials aside (drivetrain, 3 seat interior), I really think it looks rather ugly, has a brake setup bettered by a new Megane RS, and from those in the know (flemke, harris) has unresolved handling issues such as lots of roll at the rear.
It's still obviously an all-time great, but the eulogising and devotion goes too far.
Agreed. Putting outstanding credentials aside (drivetrain, 3 seat interior), I really think it looks rather ugly, has a brake setup bettered by a new Megane RS, and from those in the know (flemke, harris) has unresolved handling issues such as lots of roll at the rear.
It's still obviously an all-time great, but the eulogising and devotion goes too far.
What's the point of three seats in a sports car? They would have sold them all if they were conventional 2 seaters...
And it seems to fall off the road if actually used. Hence why many are not used.
The pinnacle of engineering no doubt. But more hassle than its worth. A car that most cannot enjoy, I suspect.
CorvetteConvert said:
Not a suit needed here but a nuclear bunker, but here goes anyway.
Of the cars I have driven enough to form an opinion, I have found a few under and over rated, as I see it and as I found the cars to be.
Over-rated (and yes there are thousands of fans of these out there, I know, who will disagree) are first the BMW M3 CSL. Impossible to drive 40-50% without letting the world know about it via the induction scream (nice WHEN you want it) and poor performance unless you thrashed it. In cut and thrust driving on a car run out the CSL could easily be left by less powerful cars unless you held low gears the whole time waiting for that top-end rush of power and noise. Also it had very poor brakes for a £60,000 (nearer £70,000 in today's prices) car and the gearbox was rubbish.
Ferrari F40. Yes really.
I got to do around 200 miles in my friend's car, in 2 stints, a month apart, on roads which should have suited it perfectly. Big lonely roads in the wilds of California (where he lives).
The fit and finish inside and out was appalling. You could actually see the outside world with the doors closed around their edges! The gearbox was poor and heavy. The clutch was very heavy and had a sudden biting point. The engine was a typical low capacity unit with two huge turbochargers which gave lag like you would not believe before a huge rush of power hit you. But because the car was not happy to rev high it was over as quick as it had arrived and so the effective power band was tiny. These things are going for a million quid each now, remember.
The kit was sparse, the engine hated going slowly and the brakes were appalling for a car expected to stop from 203 mph.
A Californian said to me that it was a race car for the road and should be viewed as such. In which case 470 bhp and 1100 kgs ain't that great is it? Not when for £100,000 you can have a 750 bhp Ultima which weighs 1,050 kgs and has better brakes, suspension, gearbox and is way faster with huge grunt from tickover.
Under-rated? Cooper S Works GP Gen 1. A real gem few got to know or drive. What a hot hatch should be. Light at 1090 kgs. Powerful at 218 bhp. Plenty of urge from 2,000 rpm to over 7,000 rpm. I own one now, my third.
Many American cars. Some are tat but many are written off without people ever trying them. The new Corvette is an absolute gem.
I have an M3 CSL, I'm putting that up front. So not a rant and with the respect of all to have an opinion, but thought a view from an owner might be of interest. I had an M3 e46 smg before it for 7 years. The difference between the cars is amazing. Note that sport auto magazine lapped the ring in 7.50 in a standard M3 CSL. not a works driver or walter' ringed out 911. not many cars can do that. in fact the 911 gt3 could not, so they updated it, I don't doubt the corvette is fast, and a good drive. But lift up the hood, look at the carbon airbox, and interior, roof, bumper boot lid and all the other work. if you go to BMW and wanted to buy the parts to turn a standard M3 into a CSL, just the different parts the bill would be 81k... but all of that means nothing compared to how it drives.Of the cars I have driven enough to form an opinion, I have found a few under and over rated, as I see it and as I found the cars to be.
Over-rated (and yes there are thousands of fans of these out there, I know, who will disagree) are first the BMW M3 CSL. Impossible to drive 40-50% without letting the world know about it via the induction scream (nice WHEN you want it) and poor performance unless you thrashed it. In cut and thrust driving on a car run out the CSL could easily be left by less powerful cars unless you held low gears the whole time waiting for that top-end rush of power and noise. Also it had very poor brakes for a £60,000 (nearer £70,000 in today's prices) car and the gearbox was rubbish.
Ferrari F40. Yes really.
I got to do around 200 miles in my friend's car, in 2 stints, a month apart, on roads which should have suited it perfectly. Big lonely roads in the wilds of California (where he lives).
The fit and finish inside and out was appalling. You could actually see the outside world with the doors closed around their edges! The gearbox was poor and heavy. The clutch was very heavy and had a sudden biting point. The engine was a typical low capacity unit with two huge turbochargers which gave lag like you would not believe before a huge rush of power hit you. But because the car was not happy to rev high it was over as quick as it had arrived and so the effective power band was tiny. These things are going for a million quid each now, remember.
The kit was sparse, the engine hated going slowly and the brakes were appalling for a car expected to stop from 203 mph.
A Californian said to me that it was a race car for the road and should be viewed as such. In which case 470 bhp and 1100 kgs ain't that great is it? Not when for £100,000 you can have a 750 bhp Ultima which weighs 1,050 kgs and has better brakes, suspension, gearbox and is way faster with huge grunt from tickover.
Under-rated? Cooper S Works GP Gen 1. A real gem few got to know or drive. What a hot hatch should be. Light at 1090 kgs. Powerful at 218 bhp. Plenty of urge from 2,000 rpm to over 7,000 rpm. I own one now, my third.
Many American cars. Some are tat but many are written off without people ever trying them. The new Corvette is an absolute gem.
when you look at the e90 M3 GTS lapping the ring only 2 seconds quicker, that should have "could try harder" on the school report.. the CSL does need better brakes, but BMW have done many SMG software updates, the last not long ago and the latest shifting with a nice rebuild of the box and clutch like mine is shocking good. I have also worked for VW group, driven everything they own, and nothing rides and has the perfect suspension balance the CSL does.. as when it was new, for many the M3 CSL is still misunderstood and many have not grasped that this was M division taking a car and thinking "how can I make this the best it can be using ( at the time) state of the art and turning carbon quality moulding to an F1 level of build, take a good look at the carbon weave in the roof doors and airbox and ponder how they managed to get the weave all the way from front to back without a single strand out of line with exactly the same layup and resign finish in 2003 and it had never been done in a roof component like this before. This is a BMW engineering quality exercise.. This is a demonstration of the best they could do, using the best team in BMW.
This car will perhaps always be under rated by many, but there were only 400 in the UK, probably 300 left, probably 4 you can buy for now... and for what you pay and what you get, what else has this level of special engineering, quality, performance, about 40 k will get a well sorted one with mid miles ( not for long) . 355 bhp is plenty for a UK road, and all cars make a different noise, I guess you buy noises you like. The first McLaren F1 had a BWM engine, listen to that and listen to an M3 CSL, very similar sound. At a time when a new honda civic type R can give a lot of 00's super cars a hard time, everything changes but if you are into the real, I Engineered the best I could" philosophy, you'll appreciate a CSL.
and having said all the, Renault Cliosport 200 is so much fun to drive, like a baby CSL with less power, had one of those too, and when it's time for the CSL to go it might be another 200 and a comfy barge for retirement, or maybe i'll try a corvette and like that ;o)
great topic for debate and all good points
cathalm said:
ORD said:
Touche. I meant a Lotus that is remotely credible.
You couldn't be more transparently biased if you changed your name to Dave Porsche. What's next? The R8 is obviously inferior and the F-Type isn't even to be considered. Set up a thread titled "Who loves the 911 and wants the world to know it?" then respond with "Me".
Note the guys who like the V8. They must all be 'biased', too. Or maybe they just have opinions on cars that they have driven. You know...kinda like a car enthusiast might...
I actually don't like most 911s greatly, and I think the Cayman R is probably the best modernish Porsche. But I was expressing my view on cars I think are overrated.
For what it's worth, I've never driven the R8 but love the sound and sheer balls of the V10 engine. I imagine I would really like the V10 manual, and the R8 is very highly regarded by sensible journals, isn't it?
Leins said:
Dblue said:
Always get shocked looks when I say this but i found my CLK63 Black Series an enormous let down.Such an iconic car but I hated mine.
Its a nice enough looking thing but its a CLK coupe very similar to a 180 diesel inside except for highly awkward high winged seats making every entry and exit tricky.So that entails a tiny rev counter to the side of the binnacle, the stupid foot operated parking brake and pretty piss poor plastics for a £100k car.
The (Also hugely overated) 6.2 litre V8 sounds wonderful at low speeds and rumbling around town and certainly has torque and power a plenty but its entirely linear in its delivery so the high revving explosive nature of an authentic sports car motor is absent. Its frankly as exciting at 3000 rpm as it is at 7k.Its also blunted by a 1750kg kerb weight so whilst fast is not the supercar chaser you would imagine. A ferrari V8 or Mezger flat 6 is much better.
Its a playful predictable chassis certainly but traction is laughable and the whole thing is just ruined by the massively annoying torque convertor auto box.
Lasted 7 weeks with me.
This is very disappointing to hear, as one of these was very much on my target list down the line (never driven one though). Difficult to know what else comparable there is in the market, especially now that any 911 GTx has gone so expensiveIts a nice enough looking thing but its a CLK coupe very similar to a 180 diesel inside except for highly awkward high winged seats making every entry and exit tricky.So that entails a tiny rev counter to the side of the binnacle, the stupid foot operated parking brake and pretty piss poor plastics for a £100k car.
The (Also hugely overated) 6.2 litre V8 sounds wonderful at low speeds and rumbling around town and certainly has torque and power a plenty but its entirely linear in its delivery so the high revving explosive nature of an authentic sports car motor is absent. Its frankly as exciting at 3000 rpm as it is at 7k.Its also blunted by a 1750kg kerb weight so whilst fast is not the supercar chaser you would imagine. A ferrari V8 or Mezger flat 6 is much better.
Its a playful predictable chassis certainly but traction is laughable and the whole thing is just ruined by the massively annoying torque convertor auto box.
Lasted 7 weeks with me.
Would love to get a drive of an Alpina B3 GT3 at some point
Shouldn't people have actually owned one of these cars before they pass judgement.
Very hard to be objective about a car you have never driven.
The M3 CSL better than any car I have ever owned and I have owned three, better than:
Gallardo Superleggera
Ferrari 355
997 GT3 RS
As one example. Am I right? maybe not but at least I am subjective from experience,..and pissed hence the edit
Very hard to be objective about a car you have never driven.
The M3 CSL better than any car I have ever owned and I have owned three, better than:
Gallardo Superleggera
Ferrari 355
997 GT3 RS
As one example. Am I right? maybe not but at least I am subjective from experience,..and pissed hence the edit
Edited by birdcage on Monday 7th September 22:01
bigmowley said:
Picture the scene. Read all the mags, frenzy of gushing reviews, need a nice little coupe for wifely the 335i is out of warranty and a bit of a big bugger to park in Tesco car park. All excited rush down to friendly Toyota dealer at bottom of road collect demo car, GT86.
....
...........
...............
What an absolute pile of ste. insanely noisy inside, flat as a fart even when you thrash the living daylights out of it, plastics that came out of a 1986 Cavalier, the seat adjustment lever actually fell off, horrible instruments just a shockingly over hyped pile of dross. expected the third coming with the steering "feel" and handling, what I got was less grip than a shopping trolley, and OK handling.
Am I missing something?
mind you I would appear not to be the only one given pretty poor sales, multiple price cuts and poor residuals.
Moral : Never trust a journalist. ??
Err, this is spot on. Journalists destroying other peoples tyres on a track or hanging the back end out on the black mountain pass are all very well but its a gutless, thrashy thing with a low rent interior....
...........
...............
What an absolute pile of s
te. insanely noisy inside, flat as a fart even when you thrash the living daylights out of it, plastics that came out of a 1986 Cavalier, the seat adjustment lever actually fell off, horrible instruments just a shockingly over hyped pile of dross. expected the third coming with the steering "feel" and handling, what I got was less grip than a shopping trolley, and OK handling.Am I missing something?
mind you I would appear not to be the only one given pretty poor sales, multiple price cuts and poor residuals.
Moral : Never trust a journalist. ??
KaraK said:
For me it's the EP3 Civic Type-R, every man and his dog - both journos and regular joes raved about it like it was the second coming of B-road blasters. Test drove one down some supposedly ideal roads that I knew well and even if I ignore what is probably my personal preferences coming in to play with the steering (it was precise enough but had all the feel of a XBOX pad to me) then I was pretty massively underwhelmed. More boring than tapwater off-VTEC and whilst not a bad drive it certainly didn't feel like anything special.
Agree with this. I had one for a while and it was seriously underwhelming. A great powertrain when pushed hard, but mediocre brakes and a pretty poor interior. Swapped it after 9 months for a Subaru Impreza.I'd also add the Nissan 350Z. Bought one a couple of years ago and wish I hadn't. Bought used and went back to the dealer for niggly fixes 3 times in 4 months including clicking rear axle and rear hatch struts not holding (both common issues). Not particularly comfortable and not as fast as it looked either. Did sound fantastic though - once I'd added a cat-back exhaust system and high-flow cats!
handful spring to mind
Vantage V8 - drove an early car. Horrid, horrid thing. I've never been a fan of Astons, but I tried my utmost to put my bias to one side to see whether it was as eventful as everyone was claiming. Had a 24 hour test drive, and discovered the following things:
My friends EP3 Type R would easily shadow it on all but the longest straights. He's a good driver and I'm reasonably competent but even he was astounded at how sluggish the car appeared.
Noise was immense, but sound didn't equal anywhere near as much progress as you'd expect.
Interior felt horrid.
Seats gave me serious back ache.
Bentley GT Continental - Wafty, but completely staid of any form of involvement. Build quality didnt feel quite as solid as I was expecting.
997 GEN1 Turbo - Yawn inducing. fking fast, but fking dull.
Ferrari 360 Coupe - Quite possibly the most bizzare drives i've ever experienced. I'm not sure if the car I drove was poorly but the power delivery felt like I was using a switch, not a pedal. Handling felt so twitchy and skittish it's hard to explain quite how uncomfortable I felt putting the car into any bends I'd expect a halo car such as this to handle.
Range Rover Sport (pre facelift) - some of the worst interior stuff that I've ever seen. How this was given the nod at original release I'll never know.
Underrated:
Porsche Panermera S - I'm sorry, I feel I should hand my pistonhead badge in after this but hands down, one of the nicest cars I've ever driven. Interior is lovely (if dull), engine is a peach and the sound, good god.
Honda Integra Type R DC5 - I'm not known for my cheerful demeanor, but I was grinning like a 14 year old in a porn shop. Epic entertainment.
Lexus IS300 - Not loved by many. My mother had one and I was absolutely besotted with the sound and interior. Not sure why since neither were that amazing, but it just felt so pleasant.
Audi S5 - Lot of haters for this old 4.2V8, but I was kindly given one as a demo since I refused (yes, spoilt tt etc) to get into an A1. One I drove had done 44k miles, but my god, the wafting ability was sensational.
Vantage V8 - drove an early car. Horrid, horrid thing. I've never been a fan of Astons, but I tried my utmost to put my bias to one side to see whether it was as eventful as everyone was claiming. Had a 24 hour test drive, and discovered the following things:
My friends EP3 Type R would easily shadow it on all but the longest straights. He's a good driver and I'm reasonably competent but even he was astounded at how sluggish the car appeared.
Noise was immense, but sound didn't equal anywhere near as much progress as you'd expect.
Interior felt horrid.
Seats gave me serious back ache.
Bentley GT Continental - Wafty, but completely staid of any form of involvement. Build quality didnt feel quite as solid as I was expecting.
997 GEN1 Turbo - Yawn inducing. f
king fast, but fking dull.Ferrari 360 Coupe - Quite possibly the most bizzare drives i've ever experienced. I'm not sure if the car I drove was poorly but the power delivery felt like I was using a switch, not a pedal. Handling felt so twitchy and skittish it's hard to explain quite how uncomfortable I felt putting the car into any bends I'd expect a halo car such as this to handle.
Range Rover Sport (pre facelift) - some of the worst interior stuff that I've ever seen. How this was given the nod at original release I'll never know.
Underrated:
Porsche Panermera S - I'm sorry, I feel I should hand my pistonhead badge in after this but hands down, one of the nicest cars I've ever driven. Interior is lovely (if dull), engine is a peach and the sound, good god.
Honda Integra Type R DC5 - I'm not known for my cheerful demeanor, but I was grinning like a 14 year old in a porn shop. Epic entertainment.
Lexus IS300 - Not loved by many. My mother had one and I was absolutely besotted with the sound and interior. Not sure why since neither were that amazing, but it just felt so pleasant.
Audi S5 - Lot of haters for this old 4.2V8, but I was kindly given one as a demo since I refused (yes, spoilt t
t etc) to get into an A1. One I drove had done 44k miles, but my god, the wafting ability was sensational.Sticking to what I've owned...
Alfa 156 / 147 GTA's... over rated by their owners (i.e. me) and underrated by everyone else. IMO
Alfa 75 3.0 V6. Had one, sold it because it cost too much and regret every day. But to keep it would have been like burning money as parts (never mind labour - I do my own spannering) are extortionate. This is largely because 75's have parts commonality with SZ& RZs and we all know how much they're worth...
Citroen ZX volcane. The best drift car I've ever owned. Better than the 75. Mega fun but very fragile and underrated. Same could be said for the pre facelift Xsara VTS. (My mum had one, still remember taking it's buyer out for a test drive in it.)
Citroen BX GTi 16v.... THE NOISE THE NOISE!!!! (Underrated) Didn't handle though.
Alfa Brera - Strictly specking, it's not mine but I think it's ugly, slow and badly made.
Alfa 156 / 147 GTA's... over rated by their owners (i.e. me) and underrated by everyone else. IMO
Alfa 75 3.0 V6. Had one, sold it because it cost too much and regret every day. But to keep it would have been like burning money as parts (never mind labour - I do my own spannering) are extortionate. This is largely because 75's have parts commonality with SZ& RZs and we all know how much they're worth...
Citroen ZX volcane. The best drift car I've ever owned. Better than the 75. Mega fun but very fragile and underrated. Same could be said for the pre facelift Xsara VTS. (My mum had one, still remember taking it's buyer out for a test drive in it.)
Citroen BX GTi 16v.... THE NOISE THE NOISE!!!! (Underrated) Didn't handle though.
Alfa Brera - Strictly specking, it's not mine but I think it's ugly, slow and badly made.
Oh, My brother bought an Audi 2008(?) Audi A3 1.9TDI Quattro after his 147 GTA and despised it. He still maintains it is the most boring car to drive he has ever owned. He did enjoy the 120D he chopped it in for though. Not just because of the chassis dynamics but also the engines too.
I'd agree with the general sentiment of the AMV8. Had one briefly and I'd say it owes 90% of its positive reviews to the way it looks/sounds. It is beautiful outside, inside isn't bad, bar the AWEFUL sat nav and ford like switchgear, and it sounds great. But it isn't particularly a great handler, and good god is it (compared to how it feels it should be) sluggish.. I now have a modified 911 which dances all over it in terms of pace, build, handling.
There's a lot of opinions being voiced on this thread which don't jive with mine. Why? Are some people talking about cars they've never actually driven? Or is it just that we all drive in different ways and enjoy different handling characteristics? A bit of both maybe. For me, the type of car I prefer has also changed with age. I am now 60 BTW.
My credentials:
1953 Jaguar XK120 roadster
First series Golf GTI
Alfa Romeo GTV 3L (Autotuned)
Porsche 996
Audi A4, A8, S8
Aston Vantage 4.3 (current)
John Cooper Works series 1 Mini (current - my wife's car - she loves Minis)
Other relevant cars driven: 997 Porsche, GT86
The 911 versus Aston argument - I loved my 911. Probably the best all-rounder an enthusiast can buy. But not BETTER than the V8V Aston. Just different. The 911 was great driven hard on narrower, more "technical" B roads. The Aston is more fun on more open, A roads. Isn't that what you would expect from their relative pedigrees? They are both fantastic fun to drive (both at 5 10ths and 9 10ths), it's just that the roads you choose and how you drive them are SOOoooo different.
The first series Golf was fun, but uninspiring by comparison with the other cars I've owned.
The 1953 Jag was so much fun to drive. Just getting a downshift to work as it should on that Moss box was an achievement in itself.
The Audis were all lovely cars, but crap to drive at the limit.
The Mini is fun. I have put top quality tyres on the front and crap tyres on the back to make it go sideways more easily and I can recommend this approach - call me mad if you like, but it makes it fun for me around every roundabout.
The GT86 I drove around some mountain roads in the Philippines. It was even a paddle shift auto. And you know what? It was a blast to drive at the limit (which was accessibly low). The MX5 I drove in the UK was just annoying by comparison. THAT little power just makes the handling inaccessible for me. My driving style, I guess.
The 996 Porsche I owned for 9 years was the best all-rounder. Easy for my wife to drive at 1 10th. Fun for me at any 10th. The only thing I would say is that at 10 10ths this car was actually beyond my capabilities (I am no Walter Rohrl) and therefore a little less enjoyable than my current Aston.
So, which of these cars would I recommend to someone who hasn't tried them all?
The GT86 and the 911.
And this despite the fact that I am hanging onto my Vantage 4.3 because it suits my current driving style the best. Is that because I'm now 60? Maybe...........
My credentials:
1953 Jaguar XK120 roadster
First series Golf GTI
Alfa Romeo GTV 3L (Autotuned)
Porsche 996
Audi A4, A8, S8
Aston Vantage 4.3 (current)
John Cooper Works series 1 Mini (current - my wife's car - she loves Minis)
Other relevant cars driven: 997 Porsche, GT86
The 911 versus Aston argument - I loved my 911. Probably the best all-rounder an enthusiast can buy. But not BETTER than the V8V Aston. Just different. The 911 was great driven hard on narrower, more "technical" B roads. The Aston is more fun on more open, A roads. Isn't that what you would expect from their relative pedigrees? They are both fantastic fun to drive (both at 5 10ths and 9 10ths), it's just that the roads you choose and how you drive them are SOOoooo different.
The first series Golf was fun, but uninspiring by comparison with the other cars I've owned.
The 1953 Jag was so much fun to drive. Just getting a downshift to work as it should on that Moss box was an achievement in itself.
The Audis were all lovely cars, but crap to drive at the limit.
The Mini is fun. I have put top quality tyres on the front and crap tyres on the back to make it go sideways more easily and I can recommend this approach - call me mad if you like, but it makes it fun for me around every roundabout.
The GT86 I drove around some mountain roads in the Philippines. It was even a paddle shift auto. And you know what? It was a blast to drive at the limit (which was accessibly low). The MX5 I drove in the UK was just annoying by comparison. THAT little power just makes the handling inaccessible for me. My driving style, I guess.
The 996 Porsche I owned for 9 years was the best all-rounder. Easy for my wife to drive at 1 10th. Fun for me at any 10th. The only thing I would say is that at 10 10ths this car was actually beyond my capabilities (I am no Walter Rohrl) and therefore a little less enjoyable than my current Aston.
So, which of these cars would I recommend to someone who hasn't tried them all?
The GT86 and the 911.
And this despite the fact that I am hanging onto my Vantage 4.3 because it suits my current driving style the best. Is that because I'm now 60? Maybe...........
ZesPak said:
Can't argue about looks, and most of them are indeed rather slow, but "badly made"? Aren't they like a two door 159? Ie built like a tank ?
My mums is a good one as it's only done 40k from new and we've noted and kept in check the problems that are staying to become prevalent with them, rot. Rotten subframes will become a real problem in the future. Edited by Zombie on Tuesday 8th September 01:23
Edited by Zombie on Tuesday 8th September 01:25
I have to say that whilst I'd own one just to LOOK at it, a passenger ride around Donington/up the M1 in an F40 has removed ANY desire to own one to drive ;0
This was 'back in the day' and I'm told most owners have fixed the worst of the issues long since but the car had a few back then for sure!!
On-track it felt super-rigid - maybe too rigid for a car on road tyres because it would skip and slide on what looked-to-me like smooth tarmac!! On the road it crashed into anything larger than a pea, shaking the passengers teeth out whilst simultaneously deafening them as it failed to cope with measly 2-figure speed limits (gearing is crazy - 1st will almost do 70??) Actually doing 70 on the motorway was physically unpleasant - like testing a washing machine from the inside ;0
I'm sure modern shocks and tyres will help a LOT - I'm sure some of that NVH feels like 'analog retro loveliness' - but it's definately a car which is neither race or road car - maybe it's purpose IS just looking amazing - maybe that's enough??
This was 'back in the day' and I'm told most owners have fixed the worst of the issues long since but the car had a few back then for sure!!
On-track it felt super-rigid - maybe too rigid for a car on road tyres because it would skip and slide on what looked-to-me like smooth tarmac!! On the road it crashed into anything larger than a pea, shaking the passengers teeth out whilst simultaneously deafening them as it failed to cope with measly 2-figure speed limits (gearing is crazy - 1st will almost do 70??) Actually doing 70 on the motorway was physically unpleasant - like testing a washing machine from the inside ;0
I'm sure modern shocks and tyres will help a LOT - I'm sure some of that NVH feels like 'analog retro loveliness' - but it's definately a car which is neither race or road car - maybe it's purpose IS just looking amazing - maybe that's enough??
Zombie said:
ZesPak said:
Can't argue about looks, and most of them are indeed rather slow, but "badly made"? Aren't they like a two door 159? Ie built like a tank ?
My mums is a good one as it's only done 40k from new and we've noted and kept in check the problems that are staying to become prevalent with them, rot. Rotten subframes will become a real problem in the future. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff