Are 1990s "performance" cars still quick?
Discussion
Olivera said:
St John Smythe said:
The three in the foreground certainly will be. Especially the GTA.
Chris Harris stated in a recent youtube video that the 156 GTA is the most dissapointing car he's ever driven.
Pagoda1966 said:
Some are quick by any standards - e.g. 99 M3 Evo which would waste any diesel ..........in performance terms, circa 200 bhp just doesn't cut it now against super-diesels but I know which car rather be taking out for a blast...!
I think even the current M4 would struggle against the super-diesels now, let alone a 99M3 EVO against a 335d.......but I'd say all are very quick cars ......even nowM4 vs Alpina Super diesel
You'll find the answer in the power to weight ratios , if they are similar the performance will be similar. The acceleration figures may not always reflect that as launch control and twin clutch gearboxes nick cars like Golf R's probably a second to 60, 2 secs to 100 but gear for gear on the road the difference will be much closer. My R32 is lighter than a Golf R despite being a much bigger car. 90's Jap turbo cars were a zenith for tuneability, super strong and reliable engines and light weight. Personally I enjoy tuning modern classics to decimate the egos of drivers of modern high performance cars but its getting harder all the time :0).
My '95 TVR Chimaera 500 is still fast by modern standard, pushing out c. 300bph/tonne (after some modifications bringing the car to the performance it was supposed to have out of the factory). However, in times where sub 4.0 seconds is a norm for sportscars and even the larger hot hatches are around 350bhp, this is a considerable step-up from most nineties sporty cars. However, many older sporty cars do give you more driving and speed sensation than the average repmobile
e21Mark said:
I just don't get the attraction for diesels. They're bloody awful things and sound rubbish.
They are fast and do 100mpg though...I agree with you in that they do sound rubbish and they don't connect with you whatsoever emotionally, some like the low end shove but a twin turbo petrol offers the same but without the lousy noise and plumes of smoke. s m said:
Slightly off topic but did anyone notice there is a new mag just out for 80s/90s performance cars?
I saw an advert in smiths last week for this and I think its a mag I will like, I used to love performance car magazine before it changed to EVO, and even bought the performance car mag when it re launched a few years ago(different writers) but it bombed and sadly didn't last long. I would say yes a 90s hot hatch could keep up with a 320d down the road, but it would have to be in top nick and/or right on the limit ie at 10/10ths.
I've got an old BMW e36 323i with circa 170bhp and raced a friend in his shiny new 520d a few years ago and I just kept up with him but I was flat out on the rev limiter and taking many more risks in my £600 winter car, having said that the suspension was shagged at the time!
I've got an old BMW e36 323i with circa 170bhp and raced a friend in his shiny new 520d a few years ago and I just kept up with him but I was flat out on the rev limiter and taking many more risks in my £600 winter car, having said that the suspension was shagged at the time!
AntiLagGC8 said:
My 1999 Impreza could do 0-60 in 4.9's out of the factory and now is more than 100bhp up and with some modern changes like launch control but even without those changes it would still be far quicker than most of the performance cars out there.
So I'd say yes, its the same for many of the Japanese turbo cars and other sports cars.
Your claim is not backed up at all by these numbers:So I'd say yes, its the same for many of the Japanese turbo cars and other sports cars.
Edited by AntiLagGC8 on Sunday 13th September 21:11
http://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/subaru-0...
It has your car hovering in the high 7's.
cerb4.5lee said:
s m said:
Slightly off topic but did anyone notice there is a new mag just out for 80s/90s performance cars?
I saw an advert in smiths last week for this and I think its a mag I will like, I used to love performance car magazine before it changed to EVO, and even bought the performance car mag when it re launched a few years ago(different writers) but it bombed and sadly didn't last long. s m said:
cerb4.5lee said:
s m said:
Slightly off topic but did anyone notice there is a new mag just out for 80s/90s performance cars?
I saw an advert in smiths last week for this and I think its a mag I will like, I used to love performance car magazine before it changed to EVO, and even bought the performance car mag when it re launched a few years ago(different writers) but it bombed and sadly didn't last long. So fingers crossed.
mikEsprit said:
AntiLagGC8 said:
My 1999 Impreza could do 0-60 in 4.9's out of the factory and now is more than 100bhp up and with some modern changes like launch control but even without those changes it would still be far quicker than most of the performance cars out there.
So I'd say yes, its the same for many of the Japanese turbo cars and other sports cars.
Your claim is not backed up at all by these numbers:So I'd say yes, its the same for many of the Japanese turbo cars and other sports cars.
Edited by AntiLagGC8 on Sunday 13th September 21:11
http://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/subaru-0...
It has your car hovering in the high 7's.
mikEsprit said:
AntiLagGC8 said:
My 1999 Impreza could do 0-60 in 4.9's out of the factory and now is more than 100bhp up and with some modern changes like launch control but even without those changes it would still be far quicker than most of the performance cars out there.
So I'd say yes, its the same for many of the Japanese turbo cars and other sports cars.
Your claim is not backed up at all by these numbers:So I'd say yes, its the same for many of the Japanese turbo cars and other sports cars.
Edited by AntiLagGC8 on Sunday 13th September 21:11
http://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/subaru-0...
It has your car hovering in the high 7's.
My car isn't on that list
Evo managed 5.0s on the wrong fuel (the car was mapped for 97 but tested on 95 which cost 15-20bhp).
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/cargrouptests/2056...
Technology has just moved on its that simple, a modern BMW diesel is faster than a E30 M3, it's natural progression. Compare a 90s computer with a current MacBook, technology progresses over time and the same goes for cars. As a consumer we are always asking for more, and with cars it's faster, safer and more economical.
I drove an Impreza P1 a few years ago and it was sublime, but fast, yes, but not anywhere near that of a new Golf R.
Tyres, suspension, chassis and the continued evolution of technology means that of course modern cars, be diesel or petrol or even electric are going to be faster. How a car makes you feel is what's its all about, how it moves around due to your inputs is where the pleasure, satisfaction and reward come from.
You could drive round the Nurburgring on Forza at an average speed of totally mental, or you could drive it for real in a 90s 205 XS at the square route of nothing and have a seriously interactive rewarding experience.
At 6/10s 90s performance cars would involve, now you need to be at 9/10s in modern cars to feel like something vaguely thrilling is going on.
So to summarise of course modern cars are faster, but it's not all about speed it's about driver involvement and old fashioned skill!
I drove an Impreza P1 a few years ago and it was sublime, but fast, yes, but not anywhere near that of a new Golf R.
Tyres, suspension, chassis and the continued evolution of technology means that of course modern cars, be diesel or petrol or even electric are going to be faster. How a car makes you feel is what's its all about, how it moves around due to your inputs is where the pleasure, satisfaction and reward come from.
You could drive round the Nurburgring on Forza at an average speed of totally mental, or you could drive it for real in a 90s 205 XS at the square route of nothing and have a seriously interactive rewarding experience.
At 6/10s 90s performance cars would involve, now you need to be at 9/10s in modern cars to feel like something vaguely thrilling is going on.
So to summarise of course modern cars are faster, but it's not all about speed it's about driver involvement and old fashioned skill!
Pagoda1966 said:
Some are quick by any standards - e.g. 99 M3 Evo which would waste any diesel at any speed whereas others are just nostalgic quick. I remember one of the best drives of my life was when a mate loaned me his Pug Gti (was driving a Nova SR at the time). Tried to buy one last year and boy was I underwhelmed by the performance. Similarly E30 M3 and Integrale - in performance terms, circa 200 bhp just doesn't cut it now against super-diesels but I know which car rather be taking out for a blast...!
99 M3 wouldn't be good againstM550d
f30 335d
Alpine D3
Audi A8 4.2 V8 TDI
Audi Q7 6.0 v12 TDI
And right on its time would be the 535d/a6 3ltr Bi Turbo/Phamton 5ltr V10 TDI
Jag XF top end diesel too
I'm sure there are others. - a long list
please 
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