Are 1990s "performance" cars still quick?

[ajprice]

crispyshark said:

The Mondeo almost straddles both the Sierra and Granada categories....it's certainly big enough! lol

According to Wikipedia, the current Mondeo is longer, wider and taller than the frog face Scorpio saloon.

[Leins]

s m said:

Alpina's 12v version

That's my "holy grail" car . I don't care if it'd get murdered by a Golf R these days, 260bhp in an E30 is still going to be a quick car

[joncon]

s m said:

HGFdodger said:

All I came here to say was... Rover Coupe Turbo.

awesome little car...
hit the rev limiter in top up the mulsanne straight ......
still a very quick car by modern standards

[ORD]

I

joncon said:

awesome little car...
hit the rev limiter in top up the mulsanne straight ......
still a very quick car by modern standards

I wouldn't call it very quick by today's standards. Quick. But no longer 'performance' car level.

[e21Mark]

Leins said:

s m said:

Alpina's 12v version

That's my "holy grail" car . I don't care if it'd get murdered by a Golf R these days, 260bhp in an E30 is still going to be a quick car

TWR were putting a 240 bhp into the E21 and getting it to 60 in 5 seconds.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[Welshbeef]

s m said:

Visually those gear ratios are just perfectly spaced why don't we have the same today

[CorvetteConvert]

300bhp/ton said:

CorvetteConvert said:

SidewaysSi said:

CorvetteConvert said:

Take the 911 turbo from 1990. Then look at the 2015 version.
Light years better and so much faster now.

Faster but I wouldn't class it as better. If I had both sat outside my house right now, I would pick the 90s car without a moment's hesitation.

Why ever would you? It's a sports car and the new one is faster, quicker, handles better, has a much better interior, much better brakes, steers better and looks a hell of a lot meaner too. Other than the 'classic' thing, where people prefer old cars simply because they like the old look, why would anyone want a 1990 911 over the current one?
Give me the 2015 Corvette over the 1990 one any day. Or the Golf R over the Golf GTI MK4. Or the current M5 over the 1990 version. Focus RS 3 over Escort Cosworth. I am struggling to think of a single 1990 car i would prefer to it's 2015 equivalent.
Forgetting worth of course, if it happens to be very rare. To actually own and drive.

Being faster does not equal better. But obviously this is a concept you are struggling with.

After 127 cars, 118 motorcycles and almost 2 million road miles i think i know most concepts, motoring-wise.

[CorvetteConvert]

LittleEnus said:

300bhp/ton said:

But it wasn't.


The range used to be

Fiesta -> Escort -> Sierra -> Granada

Then KA was introduced, as the Fiesta moved slightly upmarket and upsized.

The Mondeo replaced what? Sierra or Granada?

Well both really. Albeit maybe initially sitting somewhere between the two, but it has continued to move upmarket and bigger.

The Focus did a similar thing, it initially sat above the Esocrt placement, but lower than a Sierra would have been. It was however the model directly below the Mondeo.

Today you have

KA -> Fiesta -> Focus -> Mondeo

Fiesta	Escort	Sierra	Granada
KA	Fiesta	Focus	Mondeo

In the line up, the Focus is not a direct comparison to an XR3i.

You have far, far too much time on your hands.

+1

[Welshbeef]

CorvetteConvert said:

After 127 cars, 118 motorcycles and almost 2 million road miles i think i know most concepts, motoring-wise.

Now there is a thread on its own - 127 cars ...

Let's assume your 70? So 53 years of motoring so near on 5 cars every 2 years for your entire life. Likewise with the miles that would be an average annual mileage over 53 years of near on 38k every single year!

And how much £ has the servicing fuel and depreciation cost you in that time?

[CorvetteConvert]

That there are people who actually believe that manufacturers such as Mercedes and Porsche, for example, would use modern technology and materials and 20/30/40 years of development to make a POORER car beggars belief.
Is my 2008 Corvette better than a 1978 'vette? Of course it is!
Is the new Corvette better than mine? Sadly, YES it is indeed.
Is a current Golf R better than the MK3 or MK4 GTI? ERM, DOH! Yes!
Is the Lamborghini Huracan better than the first Gallardo? Without question.
Is the new Civic Type R better than the first one? Yup.
ETC times hundreds of examples.

Yes there will be people for whom a Morris Minor will tick all the boxes and they won't want a modern car, but in terms of performance cars, which PH is all about, current cars are the best you can buy 99 times out of 100.

[CorvetteConvert]

Welshbeef said:

CorvetteConvert said:

After 127 cars, 118 motorcycles and almost 2 million road miles i think i know most concepts, motoring-wise.

Now there is a thread on its own - 127 cars ...

Let's assume your 70? So 53 years of motoring so near on 5 cars every 2 years for your entire life. Likewise with the miles that would be an average annual mileage over 53 years of near on 38k every single year!

And how much £ has the servicing fuel and depreciation cost you in that time?

I have never been bothered about the cost really, motoring and motorcycling has been my hobby.
The best guesstimate is 1.7 million miles in 42 years on the road.
250,000 miles was done on motorcyles as a despatch rider.

[CorvetteConvert]

Welshbeef, in case you are wondering, yes it is true. I usually have 3-6 vehicles at once, as i have now.
I lost £40,000 on cars in 2007 alone but i have also made some shrewd buys and made plenty of money on many cars and bikes. You can't take it with you.

[Olivera]

CorvetteConvert said:

Is my 2008 Corvette better than a 1978 'vette? Of course it is!
Is the new Corvette better than mine? Sadly, YES it is indeed.
Is a current Golf R better than the MK3 or MK4 GTI? ERM, DOH! Yes!
Is the Lamborghini Huracan better than the first Gallardo? Without question.
Is the new Civic Type R better than the first one? Yup.
ETC times hundreds of times

Id rather have a 2008 z06 than the cuŕrent z06 as the latter needs a supercharger and suffers from severe heatsoak.

The Huracan suffers from catastrophic understeer according to chris harris and steve sutcliffe, give me an original gallardo with manual box.

The new type R is certainly faster, but id pick a drive in the original 9000rpm 1.6 jdm type r.

[Welshbeef]

CorvetteConvert said:

After 127 cars, 118 motorcycles and almost 2 million road miles i think i know most concepts, motoring-wise.

Now there is a thread on its own - 127 cars ...

Let's assume your 70? So 53 years of motoring so near on 5 cars every 2 years for your entire life. Likewise with the miles that would be an average annual mileage over 53 years of near on 38k every single year!

And how much £ has the servicing fuel and depreciation cost you in that time?

[Mastodon2]

CorvetteConvert said:

After 127 cars, 118 motorcycles and almost 2 million road miles i think i know most concepts, motoring-wise.

It does seem you're struggling with this one, mind. Deciding you think one car is "better" than another is not necessarily something that can be determined in statistical absolutes.

[Hungrymc]

Mastodon2 said:

It does seem you're struggling with this one, mind. Deciding you think one car is "better" than another is not necessarily something that can be determined in statistical absolutes.

But it's a pointless discussion as we all have different tastes and wants. If you want lots of feel, an older car is often a good call. If you want outright pace, safety, etc etc it will almost always be a newer one.

I think I'm in the former category but I accept by most measurables, newer cars are better.

[SidewaysSi]

CorvetteConvert said:

300bhp/ton said:

CorvetteConvert said:

SidewaysSi said:

CorvetteConvert said:

Take the 911 turbo from 1990. Then look at the 2015 version.
Light years better and so much faster now.

Faster but I wouldn't class it as better. If I had both sat outside my house right now, I would pick the 90s car without a moment's hesitation.

Why ever would you? It's a sports car and the new one is faster, quicker, handles better, has a much better interior, much better brakes, steers better and looks a hell of a lot meaner too. Other than the 'classic' thing, where people prefer old cars simply because they like the old look, why would anyone want a 1990 911 over the current one?
Give me the 2015 Corvette over the 1990 one any day. Or the Golf R over the Golf GTI MK4. Or the current M5 over the 1990 version. Focus RS 3 over Escort Cosworth. I am struggling to think of a single 1990 car i would prefer to it's 2015 equivalent.
Forgetting worth of course, if it happens to be very rare. To actually own and drive.

Being faster does not equal better. But obviously this is a concept you are struggling with.

After 127 cars, 118 motorcycles and almost 2 million road miles i think i know most concepts, motoring-wise.

That's all well and good but what about feel, responsiveness and exploitability on the road? It beggars belief that you think modern cars are automatically better. In ways most driving enthusiasts look for, some are but many are not.

I prefer a 205 to a 207, an Elise S1 to an S3 etc.

[Patrick Bateman]

Is it really that hard to imagine someone preferring an older model to drive??

[danllama]

CorvetteConvert said:

Welshbeef, in case you are wondering, yes it is true. I usually have 3-6 vehicles at once, as i have now.
I lost £40,000 on cars in 2007 alone but i have also made some shrewd buys and made plenty of money on many cars and bikes. You can't take it with you.

Top post.

[Welshbeef]

CorvetteConvert said:

Welshbeef said:

CorvetteConvert said:

After 127 cars, 118 motorcycles and almost 2 million road miles i think i know most concepts, motoring-wise.

Now there is a thread on its own - 127 cars ...

Let's assume your 70? So 53 years of motoring so near on 5 cars every 2 years for your entire life. Likewise with the miles that would be an average annual mileage over 53 years of near on 38k every single year!

And how much £ has the servicing fuel and depreciation cost you in that time?

I have never been bothered about the cost really, motoring and motorcycling has been my hobby.
The best guesstimate is 1.7 million miles in 42 years on the road.
250,000 miles was done on motorcyles as a despatch rider.

So it's near 3 cars every year and 40k miles on average every year for 42 years.

I guess in theory given average ownership length is 4 months and average miles per car would be 13.5k it's possible you've never had to MOT a car or even need to service one or even need to change tyres ie buy one knowing the rate of change and that MOT etc will last beyond the ownership requirement so your only looking at depreciation VED and insurance & any unexpected breakdowns (I wonder if that's actually very rare in your experience).

The list looks pretty new cars too? So dealership buys & part x or private sale. Given frequency of change actually searching for the next at etc is an ongoing activity



Out of he list was there any which you kept over 3-4 months /a long time as it was such a good car or were they generally all fairly good for the requirement you needed.