Are 1990s "performance" cars still quick?
Discussion
Olivera said:
CorvetteConvert said:
Is my 2008 Corvette better than a 1978 'vette? Of course it is!
Is the new Corvette better than mine? Sadly, YES it is indeed.
Is a current Golf R better than the MK3 or MK4 GTI? ERM, DOH! Yes!
Is the Lamborghini Huracan better than the first Gallardo? Without question.
Is the new Civic Type R better than the first one? Yup.
ETC times hundreds of times
Id rather have a 2008 z06 than the current z06 as the latter needs a supercharger and suffers from severe heatsoak.Is the new Corvette better than mine? Sadly, YES it is indeed.
Is a current Golf R better than the MK3 or MK4 GTI? ERM, DOH! Yes!
Is the Lamborghini Huracan better than the first Gallardo? Without question.
Is the new Civic Type R better than the first one? Yup.
ETC times hundreds of times
The Huracan suffers from catastrophic understeer according to chris harris and steve sutcliffe, give me an original gallardo with manual box.
The new type R is certainly faster, but id pick a drive in the original 9000rpm 1.6 jdm type r.
I've highlighted the contentious word in the previous post.
schmunk said:
No difference, eh?
You have to admire how people on PH make stuff up Edited by schmunk on Wednesday 30th September 12:24
I never said no difference, I said it's not a 100% + increase in HP and that not all modern cars do 0-60mph in 4.3 sec. Which your chart clearly shows.
The difference between 10.8 and 12.3 sec's is pretty small IMO for a 0-60mph stat.
crispyshark said:
TREMAiNE said:
300bhp/ton said:
| Fiesta | Escort | Sierra | Granada |
| KA | Fiesta | Focus | Mondeo |
In the line up, the Focus is not a direct comparison to an XR3i.
| _ | Fiesta | Escort | Sierra | Granada |
| KA | Fiesta | Focus | Mondeo | _ |
That's the lineup.
KA introduced.
Fiesta is still going.
Focus has directly replaced Escort
Mondeo has directly replaced Sierra
Granada discontinued with no replacement.
But then this is just TREMAiNE's attempt to claim things haven't changed, which they have.
LankyLegoHead said:
Yes, cars have gotten bigger. The point being made is: all cars have got bigger, therefore saying (FOR EXAMPLE) a MK1 Golf vs. MK7 Golf is a fair comparison when looking at how cars have changed in performance terms.
All cars haven't gotten bigger, there are plenty of smaller ones! ( I can list some for you if you can't think of any) You people must be completely blind or fully ignorant if you honestly believe this.How can you defend that a current Ford KA is still a lower spec model than a MK1 Fiesta??? Because that is what you are claiming. Seriously sit back and think about it.
And it's not just about physical size, it's about price point, position in the range and vehicles it competes against. As well as range of spec and intended use.
LankyLegoHead said:
I cant believe anyone would dispute this? Your argument would only be valid if the Golf was the only car to get bigger/change market. But all cars have.
I think this attitude just proves there are a heck of a lot of very gullible people, who simply can't see past their own face.300bhp/ton said:
You have to admire how people on PH make stuff up
I never said no difference, I said it's not a 100% + increase in HP and that not all modern cars do 0-60mph in 4.3 sec. Which your chart clearly shows.
The difference between 10.8 and 12.3 sec's is pretty small IMO for a 0-60mph stat.
Isn't the point though that a car which can do 4.3 to 62mph that in normal driving would probably be doing it in around 7 seconds as a casual drive. And thus someone driving a 10.8 second car is probably cruising to 62mph in possibly 20 seconds day in day out. The Gap is vastI never said no difference, I said it's not a 100% + increase in HP and that not all modern cars do 0-60mph in 4.3 sec. Which your chart clearly shows.
The difference between 10.8 and 12.3 sec's is pretty small IMO for a 0-60mph stat.
300bhp/ton said:
I think this attitude just proves there are a heck of a lot of very gullible people, who simply can't see past their own face.
You're inability to comprehend what people are saying is exhausting. So I'll try this one more time.We are comparing cars from the 90's, vs. their current counterparts, yes?
1993 Golf GTi, compare it to the 2015 Golf GTI. Thats a good way of looking at how things have changed (Size, Power, Weight etc). Thats what this is all about.
If you love the ford Ka so much, you can compare the 90's one with the current one for all I give a s
t. Yes the modern Ka is probably similar in size to a 90's fiesta but thats not the point of this thread.How many maximum attack 0 - 60 sprints would your average performance car manage before the clutch cried enough? Some exotics seem to have remarkably fragile clutches (from what I've read anyway) I also wonder how many people don't ever really test the performance of their cars anyway? I know a previous owner of my M3, took the chap he was buying it from, out on the test drive. He said the chap said he had no idea it could be driven so quickly, or that the engine could rev so high. It seems a fair proportion of people buy for the badge, be it GTi or M or whatever, yet they may be just as happy with the performance of lesser models?
The question
white_goodman said:
such as:
205/309 GTis
306 Rallye/GTi-6
Primera eGTs
Civic 1.6i-16
BMW 325is (E30)
Volvo 440 Turbo
Corrado VR6s
........still be able to keep say a modern 320d "honest" cross country or would they really not see which way it went.
Imo, from that list above, some would, some wouldn't205/309 GTis
306 Rallye/GTi-6
Primera eGTs
Civic 1.6i-16
BMW 325is (E30)
Volvo 440 Turbo
Corrado VR6s
........still be able to keep say a modern 320d "honest" cross country or would they really not see which way it went.
Some of those in the list have their origins firmly in the 80s
Instead of answering the question "Are 1990s cars faster than the cars bearing the same name today" - and you use a BMW 320d as the yardstick, answering the question asked: "Are 1990s performance cars still quick" - ikarl already answered it.
ikarl said:
90's performance cars;
E36 M3
200sx turbo
Mr2 turbo
300zx tt
Supra tt
3000gto
944 turbo
Impreza
Evo
Still pretty quick IMO
I know my 1992 car would leave a 320d comfortably (but then I'm cheating)E36 M3
200sx turbo
Mr2 turbo
300zx tt
Supra tt
3000gto
944 turbo
Impreza
Evo
Still pretty quick IMO
e21Mark said:
Leins said:
s m said:
Alpina's 12v version
That's my "holy grail" car 
. I don't care if it'd get murdered by a Golf R these days, 260bhp in an E30 is still going to be a quick carhttp://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I seem to recall reading something in one of the Alpina books about a number of RHD cars being built in Australia in the 80s under license, but can't remember if TWR were involved in that too
Leins said:
e21Mark said:
Leins said:
s m said:
Alpina's 12v version
That's my "holy grail" car . I don't care if it'd get murdered by a Golf R these days, 260bhp in an E30 is still going to be a quick carhttp://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I seem to recall reading something in one of the Alpina books about a number of RHD cars being built in Australia in the 80s under license, but can't remember if TWR were involved in that too
e21Mark said:
How many maximum attack 0 - 60 sprints would your average performance car manage before the clutch cried enough? Some exotics seem to have remarkably fragile clutches (from what I've read anyway) I also wonder how many people don't ever really test the performance of their cars anyway? I know a previous owner of my M3, took the chap he was buying it from, out on the test drive. He said the chap said he had no idea it could be driven so quickly, or that the engine could rev so high. It seems a fair proportion of people buy for the badge, be it GTi or M or whatever, yet they may be just as happy with the performance of lesser models?
You make a good point.My car can do low 4's to 60 and although the clutch is designed for much more power and abuse, on the road, I never really make use of it. It's too ballistic to drive that way on public roads and it would be unsafe to launch it that hard in most places. I can say I've never launched it on a public road but I have a few times on private grounds. I do fear for all of the transmission and especially my gearbox as its on the limit of the power it can take. I suspect if I launched it 10-20 times without giving it a break something may let go!
The problem with very fast cars on public roads is they can't be used to their fullest, well, unless you've got no problem with having your license confiscated or you don't worry about others safety. I tend to find I drive my car at about 50% of its capability or less most of the time.
In some ways I actually think small, lower powered cars can be far more fun since you can actually use all of their performance in a safe, legal way. It's for this reason I like the Toyota GT86 or the Subaru BRZ.
AntiLagGC8 said:
You make a good point.
My car can do low 4's to 60 and although the clutch is designed for much more power and abuse, on the road, I never really make use of it. It's too ballistic to drive that way on public roads and it would be unsafe to launch it that hard in most places. I can say I've never launched it on a public road but I have a few times on private grounds. I do fear for all of the transmission and especially my gearbox as its on the limit of the power it can take. I suspect if I launched it 10-20 times without giving it a break something may let go!
Launching a 90s car you say? Well here's mine (link fixed):My car can do low 4's to 60 and although the clutch is designed for much more power and abuse, on the road, I never really make use of it. It's too ballistic to drive that way on public roads and it would be unsafe to launch it that hard in most places. I can say I've never launched it on a public road but I have a few times on private grounds. I do fear for all of the transmission and especially my gearbox as its on the limit of the power it can take. I suspect if I launched it 10-20 times without giving it a break something may let go!
https://youtu.be/bX_Caz3LM5I
Olivera said:
AntiLagGC8 said:
You make a good point.
My car can do low 4's to 60 and although the clutch is designed for much more power and abuse, on the road, I never really make use of it. It's too ballistic to drive that way on public roads and it would be unsafe to launch it that hard in most places. I can say I've never launched it on a public road but I have a few times on private grounds. I do fear for all of the transmission and especially my gearbox as its on the limit of the power it can take. I suspect if I launched it 10-20 times without giving it a break something may let go!
Launching a 90s car you say? Well here's mine (link fixed):My car can do low 4's to 60 and although the clutch is designed for much more power and abuse, on the road, I never really make use of it. It's too ballistic to drive that way on public roads and it would be unsafe to launch it that hard in most places. I can say I've never launched it on a public road but I have a few times on private grounds. I do fear for all of the transmission and especially my gearbox as its on the limit of the power it can take. I suspect if I launched it 10-20 times without giving it a break something may let go!
https://youtu.be/bX_Caz3LM5I
Your anti-lag looks brutal!
AntiLagGC8 said:
Olivera said:
AntiLagGC8 said:
You make a good point.
My car can do low 4's to 60 and although the clutch is designed for much more power and abuse, on the road, I never really make use of it. It's too ballistic to drive that way on public roads and it would be unsafe to launch it that hard in most places. I can say I've never launched it on a public road but I have a few times on private grounds. I do fear for all of the transmission and especially my gearbox as its on the limit of the power it can take. I suspect if I launched it 10-20 times without giving it a break something may let go!
Launching a 90s car you say? Well here's mine (link fixed):My car can do low 4's to 60 and although the clutch is designed for much more power and abuse, on the road, I never really make use of it. It's too ballistic to drive that way on public roads and it would be unsafe to launch it that hard in most places. I can say I've never launched it on a public road but I have a few times on private grounds. I do fear for all of the transmission and especially my gearbox as its on the limit of the power it can take. I suspect if I launched it 10-20 times without giving it a break something may let go!
https://youtu.be/bX_Caz3LM5I
Your anti-lag looks brutal!
Entertaining!
Olivera said:
Sweet How long did the turbo last with the ALS?
griffin dai said:
Olivera said:
Sweet How long did the turbo last with the ALS?
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