VW in trouble over alleged US emission test manipulations

[750turbo]

Hmmm, rumours of BMW having this issue now...

[MarshPhantom]

750turbo said:

Hmmm, rumours of BMW having this issue now...

I think it probably is very widespread, saying everyone was doing it is no defence. Look at Lance Armstrong.

[ukaskew]

750turbo said:

Hmmm, rumours of BMW having this issue now...

Most manufacturers have been remarkably quiet on the matter. I'm assuming they are all furiously checking that this hasn't gone on in their own companies right now.

I would have thought if it were the case somebody involved would have whistleblown by now to try and protect themselves as best as possible.

[Fastdruid]

ukaskew said:

750turbo said:

Hmmm, rumours of BMW having this issue now...

Most manufacturers have been remarkably quiet on the matter. I'm assuming they are all furiously checking that this hasn't gone on in their own companies right now.

I would have thought if it were the case somebody involved would have whistleblown by now to try and protect themselves as best as possible.

Nope most of the other manufacturers have denied doing the same.

Ford, BMW, Renault-Nissan, Daimler I know have publicly denied it. I'm sure others have as well but I imagine they're going to be furiously checking first...

[funkyrobot]

Audi must be having fun at the moment.

One of my company's leased A4 TDI's has gone in for a service. What did a chap from Audi turn up in as a courtesy car? A brand new convertible TT.

[AW111]

Pan Pan Pan said:

I have repeatedly tried to state this on this particular thread, but it seems that some here prefer infighting with other motorists who happen to use a different fuel to them, rather than support the cause of motoring generally, against the ecof*ckwits. One has to wonder whether they are ecof*ckwit implants, or they are genuinely that short sighted. It seems they will think that way, until `their' particular car type is banned.

Edited by Pan Pan Pan on Friday 2nd October 10:19

That tinfoil hat - does it work?

[Vaud]

ukaskew said:

Most manufacturers have been remarkably quiet on the matter. I'm assuming they are all furiously checking that this hasn't gone on in their own companies right now.

I would have thought if it were the case somebody involved would have whistleblown by now to try and protect themselves as best as possible.

Is there protection for whistleblowers in Europe? There is in the US, though not with the financial upsides that SEC whistleblowing has.

[cptsideways]

Many of the engineers who are responsible for this type of stuff are fairly mobile within the industry, many on fairly short term contracts etc, it would be very difficult for this to be not common knowledge amongst other manufacturers.

[Devil2575]

AW111 said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

I have repeatedly tried to state this on this particular thread, but it seems that some here prefer infighting with other motorists who happen to use a different fuel to them, rather than support the cause of motoring generally, against the ecof*ckwits. One has to wonder whether they are ecof*ckwit implants, or they are genuinely that short sighted. It seems they will think that way, until `their' particular car type is banned.

Edited by Pan Pan Pan on Friday 2nd October 10:19

That tinfoil hat - does it work?

I think it's a conspiracy by "Big foil" to sell more rolls...

[MarshPhantom]

AW111 said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

I have repeatedly tried to state this on this particular thread, but it seems that some here prefer infighting with other motorists who happen to use a different fuel to them, rather than support the cause of motoring generally, against the ecof*ckwits. One has to wonder whether they are ecof*ckwit implants, or they are genuinely that short sighted. It seems they will think that way, until `their' particular car type is banned.

Edited by Pan Pan Pan on Friday 2nd October 10:19

That tinfoil hat - does it work?

PPP strikes me as the sort person who would've thrown his toys out of his pram over the banning of leaded fuel.

It has nothing to do with petrol users v diesel users. We are all (non motorists too) affected by dirty diesel.

It's best to ignore in case you get dragged down to his level

[Ozzie Osmond]

cptsideways said:

Many of the engineers who are responsible for this type of stuff are fairly mobile within the industry, many on fairly short term contracts etc, it would be very difficult for this to be not common knowledge amongst other manufacturers.

.... not least because their engineers will be fully investigating every new product from "the competition" in order to make sure they know what's going on out there.

Until someone demonstrates to the contrary I think this is a big media frenzy over nothing very much.

[kambites]

As I understand it the functionality in question was provided by Bosch for "research and development purposes" so every manufacturer who has ever investigated Bosch's injection products (which will almost certainly be all of them) will know that it exists. The question is whether any of the others actually configured it to operate in production releases of their ECU firmware.

[J4CKO]

Not sure how accurate this is but happened upon it and had a watch, seems peak power when tested in what they think was "the mode" was down a couple of bhp which to me isnt huge proof as two dyno readings can be that different due to heat soak or several other factors but they do say that the power curves were markedly different and it lost like 15 bhp and 30 lb/ft at certain points in the rpm range,

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/how-much-power-do...

So, your 140 bhp diesel Golf becomes a less driveable 138 bhp peak, missing a chunk of its former in gear flexibility, bet all the VAG owners cant wait for their "Demap"

[kambites]

If that's the case, I think that's a lot less of a hit than many people feared.

I think the big question here is the effect on the NEDC CO2 figures and consequent BIK rates, though.

[Ali_T]

J4CKO said:

Not sure how accurate this is but happened upon it and had a watch, seems peak power when tested in what they think was "the mode" was down a couple of bhp which to me isnt huge proof as two dyno readings can be that different due to heat soak or several other factors but they do say that the power curves were markedly different and it lost like 15 bhp and 30 lb/ft at certain points in the rpm range,

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/how-much-power-do...

So, your 140 bhp diesel Golf becomes a less driveable 138 bhp peak, missing a chunk of its former in gear flexibility, bet all the VAG owners cant wait for their "Demap"

The emissions map will be specifically targeted at the rev range that the tests use.

[ORD]

Pretty amateurish test. If it made only that much difference, no way would VAG have taken the risk. I imagine we are dealing with at least 10% less power to make it worth cheating to avoid that drop.

[Superhoop]

Not sure how that test proves anything - In the second test, the DSC light is flashing, so will have affected power delivery anyway

I think any vehicle tested with the DSC reporting an error would affect the power/torque delivery.

[Pan Pan Pan]

MarshPhantom said:

AW111 said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

I have repeatedly tried to state this on this particular thread, but it seems that some here prefer infighting with other motorists who happen to use a different fuel to them, rather than support the cause of motoring generally, against the ecof*ckwits. One has to wonder whether they are ecof*ckwit implants, or they are genuinely that short sighted. It seems they will think that way, until `their' particular car type is banned.

Edited by Pan Pan Pan on Friday 2nd October 10:19

That tinfoil hat - does it work?

PPP strikes me as the sort person who would've thrown his toys out of his pram over the banning of leaded fuel.

It has nothing to do with petrol users v diesel users. We are all (non motorists too) affected by dirty diesel.

It's best to ignore in case you get dragged down to his level

I drive on UK roads and in both petrol and diesel cars, and I don't feel any problems with either of them in the slightest, and certainly not enough to come on here having a go at the type of fuel other people / vehicles use. They ALL pollute, some more than others. (don't forget just about everything we eat and use was delivered by diesel, so most if not all of us, even non motorists are going to feel the hit if it is banned)
Some people are so short sighted they couldn't find their a*se with a map.
Of course it does not matter what the subject matter of a post is, there will always be some who put up an opposing view, and in this case a knee jerk view.
A lot of the knee jerkers must have been hopping around in dire frustration just waiting for something adverse about diesel to pop up. so they could air their views on that type of fuel. When diesel fuel is proven to be the sole cause of deaths related to air quality, particularly in cities, come back and a proper debate on the subject can be entered into then. Until then, it is simply a set of knee jerkers coming out of the wood work

Edited by Pan Pan Pan on Friday 2nd October 16:05

[Adrian E]

Press release of interest to those with diesels worrying about taxation

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-conf...

[Vaud]

Adrian E said:

Press release of interest to those with diesels worrying about taxation

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-conf...

Nice simple statement. Good.