VW in trouble over alleged US emission test manipulations
Discussion
Mr GrimNasty said:
but don't let the truth get in the way of your irrational hatred, and your willingness to be a dumb pawn for the ecomentalists' master plan to control all our lives/money/resources.
Top tip: no matter how well reasoned the rest of what you write is, if you sign off with this then you will come across as a swivel-eyed loon.Roger Irrelevant said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
but don't let the truth get in the way of your irrational hatred, and your willingness to be a dumb pawn for the ecomentalists' master plan to control all our lives/money/resources.
Top tip: no matter how well reasoned the rest of what you write is, if you sign off with this then you will come across as a swivel-eyed loon.Pan Pan Pan said:
Why not prove how clean what comes out of a petrol engined car exhaust is, by starting a petrol car in a closed garage and then sitting in there for a few hours? If it is as clean as you seem to believe it is, that wont be a problem for you, will it?
I don't care whether a car uses petrol or diesel, as I have both, so I don't try to make out one is much if any worse than another.
If as you say people are turning against diesel, then why bleat on about it, Give it a while and if what you say is true, they will all be gone (only they won`t really because most commercial vehicles are diesel. and they are diesel for reasons that have been in place for decades, not just since VW have been caught for cheating on `some' of their vehicles.
Never said petrol was totally clean so you are making that up. Agree that diesel has its place in commercial vehicles however hybrid tech is the way forward. The new Routemaster is the right idea. Turns out the US were correct about diesels and we got it totally wrong.I don't care whether a car uses petrol or diesel, as I have both, so I don't try to make out one is much if any worse than another.
If as you say people are turning against diesel, then why bleat on about it, Give it a while and if what you say is true, they will all be gone (only they won`t really because most commercial vehicles are diesel. and they are diesel for reasons that have been in place for decades, not just since VW have been caught for cheating on `some' of their vehicles.
There is more than just VW that make diesels.
Very strange how all of a sudden it's an issue - you'd think that nobody had done any kind of study into diesel and petrol emissions prior to the last fortnight.
I do have an issue with buses and taxis running their engines pretty much 24/7 as they often don't seem to be especially well maintained - but honestly the notion that almost any recent diesel car is some horrid killing machine seems a knee-jerk.
Very strange how all of a sudden it's an issue - you'd think that nobody had done any kind of study into diesel and petrol emissions prior to the last fortnight.
I do have an issue with buses and taxis running their engines pretty much 24/7 as they often don't seem to be especially well maintained - but honestly the notion that almost any recent diesel car is some horrid killing machine seems a knee-jerk.
Pan Pan Pan said:
St John Smythe said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
MarshPhantom said:
ORD said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
I drive on UK roads and in both petrol and diesel cars, and I don't feel any problems with either of them in the slightest, and certainly not enough to come on here having a go at the type of fuel other people / vehicles use. They ALL pollute, some more than others. (don't forget just about everything we eat and use was delivered by diesel, so most if not all of us, even non motorists are going to feel the hit if it is banned)
Some people are so short sighted they couldn't find their a*se with a map.
Of course it does not matter what the subject matter of a post is, there will always be some who put up an opposing view, and in this case a knee jerk view.
A lot of the knee jerkers must have been hopping around in dire frustration just waiting for something adverse about diesel to pop up. so they could air their views on that type of fuel. When diesel fuel is proven to be the sole cause of deaths related to air quality, particularly in cities, come back and a proper debate on the subject can be entered into then. Until then, it is simply a set of knee jerkers coming out of the wood work
Quite right. Unless it is the only cause, let's ignore it. Like we should ignore hand guns until they are the only cause of death.Some people are so short sighted they couldn't find their a*se with a map.
Of course it does not matter what the subject matter of a post is, there will always be some who put up an opposing view, and in this case a knee jerk view.
A lot of the knee jerkers must have been hopping around in dire frustration just waiting for something adverse about diesel to pop up. so they could air their views on that type of fuel. When diesel fuel is proven to be the sole cause of deaths related to air quality, particularly in cities, come back and a proper debate on the subject can be entered into then. Until then, it is simply a set of knee jerkers coming out of the wood work
Edited by Pan Pan Pan on Friday 2nd October 16:05
I have nothing against diesel as a fuel, diesel cars, diesel drivers etc. The problem is all the s
t that comes out of the exhaust.Diesel exhaust is no worse than petrol, it is different, but petrol emits far more other nasty carcinogens and makes them breathable. All modern cars are exceptionally clean, even the rigged diesel ones.
The idea of stinky diesels is just a lie, they just aren't like that these days, if you smell burning oil, it's most likely a petrol car. As I've said, I live on a main road a lot of the time, car pollution simply is not an issue.
Low emission zones don't work (proven all over the world) because car exhausts have such a small affect on air quality, although that doesn't stop the people that introduce them trying to spin them as a success, and every other zealot wanting them imposed, just like with 20mph zones - they ignore the facts and carry on.
The anti-diesel research comes from exactly the same school of partisan hogwash as the dangerous man-made climate change industry, overinflated statements of risk, no balance, no correlation, no causality, speculative numbers made up out of thin air. The climate change industry issued a diktat a short while ago to shift the narrative from melting ice caps and dwindling polar bears (because the ice and bears were refusing to obey the models) to killing your neighbours' children with your dastardly use of fossil fuels - because they thought the emotional impact would be more effective for their cause. And that is when all this demonizing diesel nonsense started. It's just a step on the road to banning petrol cars too. We are already hearing cries for a diesel for ev/hybrid scrap scheme.
Having said that, they mostly don't even claim that diesel exhaust kills people, they say it causes excess deaths - what they mean is people that are seriously ill may have died a few weeks early.
If you understood the facts/issues, you would realise the air quality that does most harm to a child is inside his/her own home, but don't let the truth get in the way of your irrational hatred, and your willingness to be a dumb pawn for the ecomentalists' master plan to control all our lives/money/resources.
I don't care whether a car uses petrol or diesel, as I have both, so I don't try to make out one is much if any worse than another.
If as you say people are turning against diesel, then why bleat on about it, Give it a while and if what you say is true, they will all be gone (only they won`t really because most commercial vehicles are diesel. and they are diesel for reasons that have been in place for decades, not just since VW have been caught for cheating on `some' of their vehicles.
MarshPhantom said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
St John Smythe said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
MarshPhantom said:
ORD said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
I drive on UK roads and in both petrol and diesel cars, and I don't feel any problems with either of them in the slightest, and certainly not enough to come on here having a go at the type of fuel other people / vehicles use. They ALL pollute, some more than others. (don't forget just about everything we eat and use was delivered by diesel, so most if not all of us, even non motorists are going to feel the hit if it is banned)
Some people are so short sighted they couldn't find their a*se with a map.
Of course it does not matter what the subject matter of a post is, there will always be some who put up an opposing view, and in this case a knee jerk view.
A lot of the knee jerkers must have been hopping around in dire frustration just waiting for something adverse about diesel to pop up. so they could air their views on that type of fuel. When diesel fuel is proven to be the sole cause of deaths related to air quality, particularly in cities, come back and a proper debate on the subject can be entered into then. Until then, it is simply a set of knee jerkers coming out of the wood work
Quite right. Unless it is the only cause, let's ignore it. Like we should ignore hand guns until they are the only cause of death.Some people are so short sighted they couldn't find their a*se with a map.
Of course it does not matter what the subject matter of a post is, there will always be some who put up an opposing view, and in this case a knee jerk view.
A lot of the knee jerkers must have been hopping around in dire frustration just waiting for something adverse about diesel to pop up. so they could air their views on that type of fuel. When diesel fuel is proven to be the sole cause of deaths related to air quality, particularly in cities, come back and a proper debate on the subject can be entered into then. Until then, it is simply a set of knee jerkers coming out of the wood work
Edited by Pan Pan Pan on Friday 2nd October 16:05
I have nothing against diesel as a fuel, diesel cars, diesel drivers etc. The problem is all the s
t that comes out of the exhaust.Diesel exhaust is no worse than petrol, it is different, but petrol emits far more other nasty carcinogens and makes them breathable. All modern cars are exceptionally clean, even the rigged diesel ones.
The idea of stinky diesels is just a lie, they just aren't like that these days, if you smell burning oil, it's most likely a petrol car. As I've said, I live on a main road a lot of the time, car pollution simply is not an issue.
Low emission zones don't work (proven all over the world) because car exhausts have such a small affect on air quality, although that doesn't stop the people that introduce them trying to spin them as a success, and every other zealot wanting them imposed, just like with 20mph zones - they ignore the facts and carry on.
The anti-diesel research comes from exactly the same school of partisan hogwash as the dangerous man-made climate change industry, overinflated statements of risk, no balance, no correlation, no causality, speculative numbers made up out of thin air. The climate change industry issued a diktat a short while ago to shift the narrative from melting ice caps and dwindling polar bears (because the ice and bears were refusing to obey the models) to killing your neighbours' children with your dastardly use of fossil fuels - because they thought the emotional impact would be more effective for their cause. And that is when all this demonizing diesel nonsense started. It's just a step on the road to banning petrol cars too. We are already hearing cries for a diesel for ev/hybrid scrap scheme.
Having said that, they mostly don't even claim that diesel exhaust kills people, they say it causes excess deaths - what they mean is people that are seriously ill may have died a few weeks early.
If you understood the facts/issues, you would realise the air quality that does most harm to a child is inside his/her own home, but don't let the truth get in the way of your irrational hatred, and your willingness to be a dumb pawn for the ecomentalists' master plan to control all our lives/money/resources.
I don't care whether a car uses petrol or diesel, as I have both, so I don't try to make out one is much if any worse than another.
If as you say people are turning against diesel, then why bleat on about it, Give it a while and if what you say is true, they will all be gone (only they won`t really because most commercial vehicles are diesel. and they are diesel for reasons that have been in place for decades, not just since VW have been caught for cheating on `some' of their vehicles.
These idiots who are so short sighted, (that if they get their way and diesel engined cars do get banned) they cannot see, that once diesel engined cars are removed from the picture, the ecof*ckwits will start work on banning petrol engined cars, are these idiots going to help the ecof*ckwits in that task too?
As I have said several times before, Motoring (and those who enjoy cars, and motoring) doesn't need enemies, when it has `friends' calling for a ban on diesel cars in its midst.
Perhaps those who want diesel engined cars banned, should leave this site for good, they are certainly not Pistonheads. Perhaps they should join friends of Earth, the green party, or any other group, whose ultimate aim is to get rid of private cars regardless of what type of fuel it uses.
With the current and foreseeable future EV`s are not the answer, since in cradle to grave
emssions associated with bringing it to the point of use, electricity is the dirtiest domestic fuel available, which is why the government have imposed the highest fuel factor
on electricity, compared to all the other domestic fuels used in the UK.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Very strange how all of a sudden it's an issue - you'd think that nobody had done any kind of study into diesel and petrol emissions prior to the last fortnight.
Oh but they did... sensing perhaps a little dry sarcasm from you on that 
But I'll bite anyway..C4 news revealed last night that an environmental researcher alerted the UK govt to VW's fiddling over 2 years ago but the UK govt redacted his research from a report and sat on it.
Likely to pacify Merkel, just guessing at that but its logical.
Funny how the Govt announced yesterday they wouldnt tax affected owners more... the same day they get outed for covering up the truth.
Its all one big circle-jerk of cover ups and lies that is falling apart by the day as the truth comes out. Who else will get rumbled for cheating. Tick tock.
St John Smythe said:
Blib said:
We got it wrong willfully. The decision to promote diesel was made to placate the CO2 gods.
Even Blair's old science minister has gone on record stating that they got it wrong promoting diesel. Nobody can argue with that. Total mess.Diesel engined cars only represent about one third of all the cars on UK roads. Where do you suppose the rest of the pollution you bang on about comes from?
bean3001 said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Very strange how all of a sudden it's an issue - you'd think that nobody had done any kind of study into diesel and petrol emissions prior to the last fortnight.
Oh but they did... sensing perhaps a little dry sarcasm from you on that But I'll bite anyway..C4 news revealed last night that an environmental researcher alerted the UK govt to VW's fiddling over 2 years ago but the UK govt redacted his research from a report and sat on it.
Likely to pacify Merkel, just guessing at that but its logical.
Funny how the Govt announced yesterday they wouldnt tax affected owners more... the same day they get outed for covering up the truth.
Its all one big circle-jerk of cover ups and lies that is falling apart by the day as the truth comes out. Who else will get rumbled for cheating. Tick tock.
The rank hypocrisy of many on here is almost laughable tbh.
Trains, buses, lorries, taxis, there are lots of "unclean" vehicles using diesel I've no doubt of that, just like there are lots of old snotters that use petrol, and yes VW have been very naughty, but I'm afraid it still seems premature to assume that any new diesel driven off the forecourt today is a filthy killer so we should all go and buy a nice clean petrol engine.
Pan Pan Pan said:
No, I am saying that there seem to be some spittleflecked, naïve, idiots who seem to have developed a paranoia about diesel engined cars, who have either joined the ecof*ckwits in their quest to get rid of private cars, or are naively doing the ecof*ckwits work for them, in saying that diesel cars should be banned.
These idiots who are so short sighted, (that if they get their way and diesel engined cars do get banned) they cannot see, that once diesel engined cars are removed from the picture, the ecof*ckwits will start work on banning petrol engined cars, are these idiots going to help the ecof*ckwits in that task too?
As I have said several times before, Motoring (and those who enjoy cars, and motoring) doesn't need enemies, when it has `friends' calling for a ban on diesel cars in its midst.
Perhaps those who want diesel engined cars banned, should leave this site for good, they are certainly not Pistonheads. Perhaps they should join friends of Earth, the green party, or any other group, whose ultimate aim is to get rid of private cars regardless of what type of fuel it uses.
With the current and foreseeable future EV`s are not the answer, since in cradle to grave
emssions associated with bringing it to the point of use, electricity is the dirtiest domestic fuel available, which is why the government have imposed the highest fuel factor
on electricity, compared to all the other domestic fuels used in the UK.
Well good luck with your one man war on all who don't agree with you.These idiots who are so short sighted, (that if they get their way and diesel engined cars do get banned) they cannot see, that once diesel engined cars are removed from the picture, the ecof*ckwits will start work on banning petrol engined cars, are these idiots going to help the ecof*ckwits in that task too?
As I have said several times before, Motoring (and those who enjoy cars, and motoring) doesn't need enemies, when it has `friends' calling for a ban on diesel cars in its midst.
Perhaps those who want diesel engined cars banned, should leave this site for good, they are certainly not Pistonheads. Perhaps they should join friends of Earth, the green party, or any other group, whose ultimate aim is to get rid of private cars regardless of what type of fuel it uses.
With the current and foreseeable future EV`s are not the answer, since in cradle to grave
emssions associated with bringing it to the point of use, electricity is the dirtiest domestic fuel available, which is why the government have imposed the highest fuel factor
on electricity, compared to all the other domestic fuels used in the UK.
Maybe what motoring enthusiasts don't need is another of your spittle-flecked paranoid rants about how they are all out to get us, along with your shrill bleating about traitors in the PH ranks.
FFS get a grip.
AW111 said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
No, I am saying that there seem to be some spittleflecked, naïve, idiots who seem to have developed a paranoia about diesel engined cars, who have either joined the ecof*ckwits in their quest to get rid of private cars, or are naively doing the ecof*ckwits work for them, in saying that diesel cars should be banned.
These idiots who are so short sighted, (that if they get their way and diesel engined cars do get banned) they cannot see, that once diesel engined cars are removed from the picture, the ecof*ckwits will start work on banning petrol engined cars, are these idiots going to help the ecof*ckwits in that task too?
As I have said several times before, Motoring (and those who enjoy cars, and motoring) doesn't need enemies, when it has `friends' calling for a ban on diesel cars in its midst.
Perhaps those who want diesel engined cars banned, should leave this site for good, they are certainly not Pistonheads. Perhaps they should join friends of Earth, the green party, or any other group, whose ultimate aim is to get rid of private cars regardless of what type of fuel it uses.
With the current and foreseeable future EV`s are not the answer, since in cradle to grave
emssions associated with bringing it to the point of use, electricity is the dirtiest domestic fuel available, which is why the government have imposed the highest fuel factor
on electricity, compared to all the other domestic fuels used in the UK.
Well good luck with your one man war on all who don't agree with you.These idiots who are so short sighted, (that if they get their way and diesel engined cars do get banned) they cannot see, that once diesel engined cars are removed from the picture, the ecof*ckwits will start work on banning petrol engined cars, are these idiots going to help the ecof*ckwits in that task too?
As I have said several times before, Motoring (and those who enjoy cars, and motoring) doesn't need enemies, when it has `friends' calling for a ban on diesel cars in its midst.
Perhaps those who want diesel engined cars banned, should leave this site for good, they are certainly not Pistonheads. Perhaps they should join friends of Earth, the green party, or any other group, whose ultimate aim is to get rid of private cars regardless of what type of fuel it uses.
With the current and foreseeable future EV`s are not the answer, since in cradle to grave
emssions associated with bringing it to the point of use, electricity is the dirtiest domestic fuel available, which is why the government have imposed the highest fuel factor
on electricity, compared to all the other domestic fuels used in the UK.
Maybe what motoring enthusiasts don't need is another of your spittle-flecked paranoid rants about how they are all out to get us, along with your shrill bleating about traitors in the PH ranks.
FFS get a grip.
Incidently several posters here have made the same point as me, so where do you get your one man war comment from? Is that as truthful as any other comments you have made?
Mr GrimNasty said:
Your problem is that you don't understand the science, and you have no sense of proportion, you're just believing/repeating propaganda factoids.
Diesel exhaust is no worse than petrol, it is different, but petrol emits far more other nasty carcinogens and makes them breathable. All modern cars are exceptionally clean, even the rigged diesel ones.
The idea of stinky diesels is just a lie, they just aren't like that these days, if you smell burning oil, it's most likely a petrol car. As I've said, I live on a main road a lot of the time, car pollution simply is not an issue.
Low emission zones don't work (proven all over the world) because car exhausts have such a small affect on air quality, although that doesn't stop the people that introduce them trying to spin them as a success, and every other zealot wanting them imposed, just like with 20mph zones - they ignore the facts and carry on.
The anti-diesel research comes from exactly the same school of partisan hogwash as the dangerous man-made climate change industry, overinflated statements of risk, no balance, no correlation, no causality, speculative numbers made up out of thin air. The climate change industry issued a diktat a short while ago to shift the narrative from melting ice caps and dwindling polar bears (because the ice and bears were refusing to obey the models) to killing your neighbours' children with your dastardly use of fossil fuels - because they thought the emotional impact would be more effective for their cause. And that is when all this demonizing diesel nonsense started. It's just a step on the road to banning petrol cars too. We are already hearing cries for a diesel for ev/hybrid scrap scheme.
Having said that, they mostly don't even claim that diesel exhaust kills people, they say it causes excess deaths - what they mean is people that are seriously ill may have died a few weeks early.
If you understood the facts/issues, you would realise the air quality that does most harm to a child is inside his/her own home, but don't let the truth get in the way of your irrational hatred, and your willingness to be a dumb pawn for the ecomentalists' master plan to control all our lives/money/resources.
Try spending all week doing mot tests then come back and state diesels don't stink and throw out loads of sDiesel exhaust is no worse than petrol, it is different, but petrol emits far more other nasty carcinogens and makes them breathable. All modern cars are exceptionally clean, even the rigged diesel ones.
The idea of stinky diesels is just a lie, they just aren't like that these days, if you smell burning oil, it's most likely a petrol car. As I've said, I live on a main road a lot of the time, car pollution simply is not an issue.
Low emission zones don't work (proven all over the world) because car exhausts have such a small affect on air quality, although that doesn't stop the people that introduce them trying to spin them as a success, and every other zealot wanting them imposed, just like with 20mph zones - they ignore the facts and carry on.
The anti-diesel research comes from exactly the same school of partisan hogwash as the dangerous man-made climate change industry, overinflated statements of risk, no balance, no correlation, no causality, speculative numbers made up out of thin air. The climate change industry issued a diktat a short while ago to shift the narrative from melting ice caps and dwindling polar bears (because the ice and bears were refusing to obey the models) to killing your neighbours' children with your dastardly use of fossil fuels - because they thought the emotional impact would be more effective for their cause. And that is when all this demonizing diesel nonsense started. It's just a step on the road to banning petrol cars too. We are already hearing cries for a diesel for ev/hybrid scrap scheme.
Having said that, they mostly don't even claim that diesel exhaust kills people, they say it causes excess deaths - what they mean is people that are seriously ill may have died a few weeks early.
If you understood the facts/issues, you would realise the air quality that does most harm to a child is inside his/her own home, but don't let the truth get in the way of your irrational hatred, and your willingness to be a dumb pawn for the ecomentalists' master plan to control all our lives/money/resources.
t, you can also tell everyone that at the end of each day that your nose wasn't full of black st, Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff