VW in trouble over alleged US emission test manipulations
Discussion
What a shambles this is turning out to be. I for one was guilty of thinking the VW group was a soundly run organisation producing a variety of mostly quality cars.
Now I am seeing the company as poorly run, where management have no finger on the pulse and with complete disregard to its role on corporate social responsibility; a company of that size has a moral obligation to reduce its impact on the environment.
We all mock that we did not buy our cars on an emissions basis (I didn't even think about it) but that's the whole point of the bigger picture stuff - CSR, global initiatives to cut pollution for example, so that those that won't or can't think/do anything about wider issues such as pollution on a micro level are still part of the advancement in cleaner technology by default, for the greater good if you like.
Now I am seeing the company as poorly run, where management have no finger on the pulse and with complete disregard to its role on corporate social responsibility; a company of that size has a moral obligation to reduce its impact on the environment.
We all mock that we did not buy our cars on an emissions basis (I didn't even think about it) but that's the whole point of the bigger picture stuff - CSR, global initiatives to cut pollution for example, so that those that won't or can't think/do anything about wider issues such as pollution on a micro level are still part of the advancement in cleaner technology by default, for the greater good if you like.
Mr_Yogi said:
According to the BBC news petrol cars could have dodgy Co2 results! How far will this go?
I am convinced that ALL car manufacturers are 'cheating' these tests to some degree using a variety of methods.100% convinced.
The root cause is the testing itself which is so inadequate, antiquated and irrelevant as to be unfit for purpose.
These guys have been running rings around it for years.
This whole thing has become really baffling as to why it has been handled so badly.
As soon as they found out the EPA were investigating them, the first thing they should have done is ring up whoever makes all their ECUs and get them to tell them exactly which ECUs have been supplied with coding in question. I cant workout why they are still finding out about more cheat software now. The second thing they should have done is appoint someone external to oversee the investigation. Quite why they think all these internal promotions are appropriate I don't know.
I also don't get the latest issue with C02 and petrol engines. C02 directly correlates to fuel consumption, doesn't it?
While their cars don't hit the official figures, they seem off by comparable to other manufacturers claims. Is this a ham fisted way to try and muddy other manufacturers by saying that everyone cheats the test, or a genuine problem? The point is there are more questions now than when the story first broke.
As soon as they found out the EPA were investigating them, the first thing they should have done is ring up whoever makes all their ECUs and get them to tell them exactly which ECUs have been supplied with coding in question. I cant workout why they are still finding out about more cheat software now. The second thing they should have done is appoint someone external to oversee the investigation. Quite why they think all these internal promotions are appropriate I don't know.
I also don't get the latest issue with C02 and petrol engines. C02 directly correlates to fuel consumption, doesn't it?
While their cars don't hit the official figures, they seem off by comparable to other manufacturers claims. Is this a ham fisted way to try and muddy other manufacturers by saying that everyone cheats the test, or a genuine problem? The point is there are more questions now than when the story first broke.
sato said:
As soon as they found out the EPA were investigating them, the first thing they should have done is ring up whoever makes all their ECUs and get them to tell them exactly which ECUs have been supplied with coding in question. I cant workout why they are still finding out about more cheat software now.
You are presuming they are whiter than white with pristine intentions w.r.t disclosure, rather than trying to manage the corporate clusterf
k and get away with what they can.sato said:
The second thing they should have done is appoint someone external to oversee the investigation. Quite why they think all these internal promotions are appropriate I don't know.
I refer you to my answer above 
pfnsht said:
What a shambles this is turning out to be. I for one was guilty of thinking the VW group was a soundly run organisation producing a variety of mostly quality cars.
Now I am seeing the company as poorly run, where management have no finger on the pulse and with complete disregard to its role on corporate social responsibility; a company of that size has a moral obligation to reduce its impact on the environment.
We all mock that we did not buy our cars on an emissions basis (I didn't even think about it) but that's the whole point of the bigger picture stuff - CSR, global initiatives to cut pollution for example, so that those that won't or can't think/do anything about wider issues such as pollution on a micro level are still part of the advancement in cleaner technology by default, for the greater good if you like.
I think that what it also highlights and reminds people of is that in any consumer industry of sufficient size and where there are strong and punitive tax hurdles there must be proper regulation. Now I am seeing the company as poorly run, where management have no finger on the pulse and with complete disregard to its role on corporate social responsibility; a company of that size has a moral obligation to reduce its impact on the environment.
We all mock that we did not buy our cars on an emissions basis (I didn't even think about it) but that's the whole point of the bigger picture stuff - CSR, global initiatives to cut pollution for example, so that those that won't or can't think/do anything about wider issues such as pollution on a micro level are still part of the advancement in cleaner technology by default, for the greater good if you like.
The fact that this was only picked up in by an independent agency working in a completely different project highlights how remiss the consumer market has been in its total assumption that a global corporation is stringently honest just because the product it manufactures is a car and this somehow makes it different from all other sectors.
It will be interesting to see how long the automotive industry holds out from announcing the formation of its own proper regulatory body to protect consumers and the significance of the length in any delay.
DonkeyApple said:
RobDickinson said:
So are Porsche going to blame WV engineers like every one else?
Effectively admit they didnt even look into the engine management system for one of their cars?
That's a very interesting conundrum for the brand. Effectively admit they didnt even look into the engine management system for one of their cars?
EricE said:
DonkeyApple said:
RobDickinson said:
So are Porsche going to blame WV engineers like every one else?
Effectively admit they didnt even look into the engine management system for one of their cars?
That's a very interesting conundrum for the brand. Effectively admit they didnt even look into the engine management system for one of their cars?
I've long since held the view that economically Porsche has absolutely no need to be selling non performance vehicles and that by doing so they've made the brand ubiquitous and devalued its prestige and performance heritage. Even the Board of Porsche have been discussing that their base, volume products have prevented them from moving up the price ladder on their true products and have mooted halting making them. For me, I'd like to see Porsche ditch these low end models and refocus on selling performance only versions of their product range.
Oh dear oh dear oh dear..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34712435
VW are still denying the V6 thing but have now said there are some er "discrepancies" in CO2 and fuel economy measurement methods, possibly on petrols too.
Which potentially ropes in whoever did the testing for them?
Further down the article there's a quote: "if this goes further then VW might have to start selling parts of their business.".
So who knows, maybe Porsche will break free and the whole Porsche buying VW saga will reopen
eta: Mr.Grim, it's not exactly what I'd call ironic, seeing as what we're discussing here is deliberate law breaking, rather than stupidity and glacial legislation, but we certainly ought to be doing more, without wanting to derail the thread, a link to a reputable source would be nice
I'm not sure where we've got to with legislation for gensets in the EU, I think it's dependent on power output and only since 2014?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34712435
VW are still denying the V6 thing but have now said there are some er "discrepancies" in CO2 and fuel economy measurement methods, possibly on petrols too.
Which potentially ropes in whoever did the testing for them?
Further down the article there's a quote: "if this goes further then VW might have to start selling parts of their business.".
So who knows, maybe Porsche will break free and the whole Porsche buying VW saga will reopen
eta: Mr.Grim, it's not exactly what I'd call ironic, seeing as what we're discussing here is deliberate law breaking, rather than stupidity and glacial legislation, but we certainly ought to be doing more, without wanting to derail the thread, a link to a reputable source would be nice
I'm not sure where we've got to with legislation for gensets in the EU, I think it's dependent on power output and only since 2014?
Edited by scarble on Wednesday 4th November 11:27
Another day, another VW issue. This time not directly emission related but hey.
VW recalls 91.867 cars for camshaft problem
http://www.wsj.com/articles/volkswagen-recalls-91-...
(image from http://www.audi-sport.net)
VW recalls 91.867 cars for camshaft problem
http://www.wsj.com/articles/volkswagen-recalls-91-...
(image from http://www.audi-sport.net)
Edited by EricE on Wednesday 4th November 13:12
That is something that I've not found an answer too and that is that two years ago when the EPA first found the issue and took VW to task and VW later conceded that there was an issue the EPA allowed VW to try and fix the issue quietly.
It was only after VW told the EPA that they had done so and further investigations found this no to be the case did the US regulators go public with this whole fiasco.
Now, when you search in Google for the 500,000 recalls that VW would have made in 2014 you cannot find anything to do with this particular issue. But you can find recalls for other unrelated issues.
So do manufacturers issue recalls for a fabricated issue when the purpose is to remedy something different (non essential safety obviously) on a regular basis? And is this sanctioned by regulators?
It was only after VW told the EPA that they had done so and further investigations found this no to be the case did the US regulators go public with this whole fiasco.
Now, when you search in Google for the 500,000 recalls that VW would have made in 2014 you cannot find anything to do with this particular issue. But you can find recalls for other unrelated issues.
So do manufacturers issue recalls for a fabricated issue when the purpose is to remedy something different (non essential safety obviously) on a regular basis? And is this sanctioned by regulators?
EricE said:
Another day, another VW issue. This time not directly emission related but hey.
VW recalls 91.867 cars for camshaft problem
http://www.wsj.com/articles/volkswagen-recalls-91-...
(image from http://www.audi-sport.net)
OMGVW recalls 91.867 cars for camshaft problem
http://www.wsj.com/articles/volkswagen-recalls-91-...
(image from http://www.audi-sport.net)
Edited by EricE on Wednesday 4th November 13:12
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