VW in trouble over alleged US emission test manipulations

VW in trouble over alleged US emission test manipulations

Author
Discussion

gbruckner

53 posts

108 months

Saturday 19th September 2015
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Now if somebody would please investigate the NEDC and all of the rubbish engines manufacturers build into their cars to get the number on paper down (while real life fuel consumption GOES UP) then we might actually make some progress. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

mini me

1,435 posts

192 months

Saturday 19th September 2015
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That's already happening for future emissions. A whole new way of real world testing is being developed as we speak.

ukaskew

10,642 posts

220 months

Saturday 19th September 2015
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hornetrider said:
Is this story going to take off? This is a proper corporate decision to dupe the tests and circumvent emissions regulations. On a massive scale.
I was thinking the same thing, surely this is a huge, huge story?

pralognan

7 posts

114 months

Saturday 19th September 2015
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The company I used to work for supplied VW with a major component for all its diesel cars in the 80's and 90's
We had a problem with our quality and one of my colleagues decided to fiddle the test results we supplied to VW.
They did their own test and told us we were "either crooked or incompetent"
We were both!
Very rapid corrective action overcame the problem and we retained the business for many years.
Looks like VW standards have slipped somewhat

loose cannon

6,029 posts

240 months

Saturday 19th September 2015
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ukaskew said:
I was thinking the same thing, surely this is a huge, huge story?
It would of been massive if it were not a German manufacturer it will all be forgotten about by the press next week
I

Mr2Mike

20,143 posts

254 months

Saturday 19th September 2015
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ukaskew said:
I was thinking the same thing, surely this is a huge, huge story?
I was thinking the opposite, I thought it was fairly well know that this kind of thing had been going on for many years?

bitchstewie

50,781 posts

209 months

Saturday 19th September 2015
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Mr2Mike said:
I was thinking the opposite, I thought it was fairly well know that this kind of thing had been going on for many years?
I would say it's well known that manufacturers optimise their vehicles to perform well in test conditions.

Optimising doesn't mean "detect you're in a test based upon certain things happening in a specific sequence and specifically switch to a mode specifically designed only for when these conditions are met" which is what it sounds like is being alleged here.

Sheepshanks

32,530 posts

118 months

Saturday 19th September 2015
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bhstewie said:
I would say it's well known that manufacturers optimise their vehicles to perform well in test conditions.
Exactly, and for the fuel consumption tests they have to run in the default condition. Hence you can't permanently turn off stop/start, auto-boxes always start in E mode etc.

What VW have done is something else entirely, and on the face it seems to be an absolutely massive deception.

Super Slo Mo

5,368 posts

197 months

Saturday 19th September 2015
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bhstewie said:
Mr2Mike said:
I was thinking the opposite, I thought it was fairly well know that this kind of thing had been going on for many years?
I would say it's well known that manufacturers optimise their vehicles to perform well in test conditions.

Optimising doesn't mean "detect you're in a test based upon certain things happening in a specific sequence and specifically switch to a mode specifically designed only for when these conditions are met" which is what it sounds like is being alleged here.
That's exactly what people have been alleging happens for years. I've seen posts on here alluding to it. I always dismissed it as conspiracy theory nonsense but it appears that it may well be true.

delta0

2,334 posts

105 months

Saturday 19th September 2015
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I wonder what will happen in the UK. If they deem VW to have cheated the emissions test here too then that could be a lot of VAG cars moving up significantly in the tax bands.

OldGermanHeaps

3,801 posts

177 months

Saturday 19th September 2015
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The american test is for NOx not CO2 like the european tests. Actually its inverse, tuning for lower NOx generally increases CO2 and particulate output and vice versa. The american test deliberately favours big thirsty low compression low output petrol engines that those fkwits love.

Edited by OldGermanHeaps on Saturday 19th September 12:09

marmitemania

1,566 posts

141 months

Saturday 19th September 2015
quotequote all
loose cannon said:
ukaskew said:
I was thinking the same thing, surely this is a huge, huge story?
It would of been massive if it were not a German manufacturer it will all be forgotten about by the press next week
I
That's exactly what I said earlier, it's time our sycophantic pandering to all things German stopped. Their time will come when it all comes crashing down. I hope this is the first in the amour.

marmitemania

1,566 posts

141 months

Saturday 19th September 2015
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marmitemania said:
loose cannon said:
ukaskew said:
I was thinking the same thing, surely this is a huge, huge story?
It would of been massive if it were not a German manufacturer it will all be forgotten about by the press next week
I
That's exactly what I said earlier, it's time our sycophantic pandering to all things German stopped. Their time will come when it all comes crashing down. I hope this is the first in the amour.
Swear filter seems a little over zealous. I was not intentionally being racist. getmecoat

OldGermanHeaps

3,801 posts

177 months

Saturday 19th September 2015
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marmitemania said:
Swear filter seems a little over zealous. I was not intentionally being racist. getmecoat
Yes you were, just against the germans though and those liederhosen wearing sausage munchers deserve it wink

Superhoop

4,676 posts

192 months

Saturday 19th September 2015
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delta0 said:
I wonder what will happen in the UK. If they deem VW to have cheated the emissions test here too then that could be a lot of VAG cars moving up significantly in the tax bands.
There are no emissions tests "here" as such, they have a European wide test, so if they fail in Europe, it wouldn't be just the UK that outd have to reevaluate, it would be all European markets - I suspect that would make the 500k vehicles in the USA look like a small number in comparison.

Artey

757 posts

105 months

Saturday 19th September 2015
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OldGermanHeaps said:
The american test is for NOx not CO2 like the european tests. Actually its inverse, tuning for lower NOx generally increases CO2 and particulate output and vice versa. The american test deliberately favours big thirsty low compression low output petrol engines that those fkwits love.
Ah that's ok then, let's pretend like nothing happened then. Danke.

OldGermanHeaps

3,801 posts

177 months

Saturday 19th September 2015
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Artey said:
Ah that's ok then, let's pretend like nothing happened then. Danke.
I was explaining why it might not be as much as an issue in european testing and tax banding which is more biased towards CO2 and particulates, not making excuses for them. You can think what you want though, i couldn't give a fk either way.

Artey

757 posts

105 months

Saturday 19th September 2015
quotequote all
OldGermanHeaps said:
Artey said:
Ah that's ok then, let's pretend like nothing happened then. Danke.
I was explaining why it might not be as much as an issue in european testing and tax banding which is more biased towards CO2 and particulates, not making excuses for them. You can think what you want though, i couldn't give a fk either way.
I don't think that was your main goalchen but do please carry on not giving a fk. And drive your ecofriendly 500cc 2 cylinder turbocharged 300PS disposable beasts screaming MOAR MONEY (but we're the chosen ones saving the planet right?).

OldGermanHeaps

3,801 posts

177 months

Saturday 19th September 2015
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I drive something french with 220000 miles on it which defineatly does not scream, is not a beast or say much about money, but thanks for your concern. It satisfies all my needs.
Are you well?

delta0

2,334 posts

105 months

Saturday 19th September 2015
quotequote all
OldGermanHeaps said:
I was explaining why it might not be as much as an issue in european testing and tax banding which is more biased towards CO2 and particulates, not making excuses for them. You can think what you want though, i couldn't give a fk either way.
It's easy to rig the test either way. They can set the American system to run a bit rich to cheat the NOx and the EU one to run a bit lean to cheat the CO2.