VW in trouble over alleged US emission test manipulations

[EricE]

matchmaker said:

Shamelessly takem from Facebook.

Should have left them where they belong.

[EricE]

No big surprise but Seat and Skoda officially stated that their cars are affected too.

Skoda:

Fabia 2009-2013
Roomster 2009-2013
Octavia 2009-2013
Superb 2009-2013

Seat:

"up to 500.000 cars"

[EricE]

markoc84 said:

Where did you see this information?

I'm in the process of buying a 2012 Seat Leon 1.6 TDi so think I might get my deposit back.

I read a (copyrighted) report from my stock news sticker.
One of the sources was "el pais", this could be the article. In your position I would wait a few more hours/days for the dust to settle. If your car has the EA189 engine then it seems likely that it is affected.

http://elpais.com/elpais/2015/09/24/inenglish/1443...

[EricE]

Matthias Müller is the new CEO of Volkswagen

http://www.handelsblatt.com/unternehmen/industrie/...

[EricE]

The ICCT has released a new study on CO2 emissions today.

http://www.theicct.org/sites/default/files/publica...

"As our series From Laboratory to Road has made clear over the past three years, in reality, co2 emissions from passenger cars in everyday operation have not declined as much as these official statistics would seem to indicate, which has become a subject of rising concern. this study, which updates the from laboratory to road series for 2015, demonstrates that the trend has not improved — on the contrary, the gap between real-world and official values continues to increase.
[...]
A technical definition of real-world driving is elusive because of variations in vehicle types, driving behavior, and driving conditions. Nonetheless, in aggregating data on almost 600,000 vehicles from eleven data sources and six countries, this study reveals a clear trend over time: the divergence (or “gap”) between real-world and official CO2 emissions increased from approximately 8 percent in 2001 to 40 percent in 2014"

[EricE]

Also interesting: Daimler/Mercedes seems to be one of the companies having the least problems meeting NOx targets.
As I have learned in the last few days NOx and CO2 emissions are inversely proportional to each other - looks like they took the right bet because nobody seems to question an extra 15% in CO2 emissions while VW is getting crucified over falsified NOx emissions.

[EricE]

mollytherocker said:

Its in the Macan isn't it?

I don't think so, the Macan Diesel S is a V6 and there's no 4-Cylinder Macan Diesel as far as I know.

In other related news, the VW stock is scraping the 100,00€ mark as we speak

[EricE]

trj88888 said:

1.2 million Skoda's now.

LIke Dominos.

Those numbers aren't new, they are all part of the estimated 11 million number that VW stated days ago:

Golf MkVI (2008-12), Passat MkVII (2010-14) and Tiguan (2007-15); Skoda Octavia, Superb and Yeti; SEAT Leon, Altea and Alhambra; Audi A1, A3, A3 cabrio, A4, A5, A6, TT, Q3 and Q5

News would be if the EPA tested other engines than the EA189 1.6-2.0L 4 cylinder TDI and found more discrepancies.

[EricE]

I read that the US Mk7 Diesel Golfs have a solid beam axle in the rear because the Adblue tank leaves no room for the regular independent rear suspension. Is that true!?

[EricE]

MarshPhantom said:

Ozzie Osmond said:

Condi said:

I suspect it is a very expensive storm in a tea-cup, and in 12 months time there will be little affect on brand appeal or used values of VAG cars.

^^^ Yup.

So you'd both buy a new VW in the next few weeks?

Why not?
I wouldn't necessarily buy a EA189 car in the next few weeks but those engines are discontinued anyway.

[EricE]

Somebody tested how much power the cars lose in the "test mode": around 10%

http://www.tflcar.com/2015/10/how-much-power-does-...

[EricE]

Ali_T said:

I wonder if this puts either Skoda or, more likely, Seat in jeopardy? I can see them offloading Lambo and Ducati as well.

Definitely Seat, although this would be at odds with recent news reports that Seat and Skoda are getting more right to say at the Wolfsburg HQ.

Bugatti would be the next brand on my chopping block but it is clearly Piech's toy used to one-up his cousins and it seems unlikely that he will let go of it.

Selling Lambo and Ducati to FIAT would make sense too.

[EricE]

VAG became too big for their own good when megalomaniac Piech decided that he wanted to be #1 worldwide at any cost.

They should split the company into four completely independent corporate groups as it was rumoured back in April.

Porsche, Bentley, Bugatti
Audi, Lamborghini, Ducati
Volkswagen, Skoda, Seat
MAN, Scania, VW Commercial

[EricE]

FiF said:

Meanwhile apologies for off topic, and second apologies for Wail link. Although it is also behind Times pay wall.


Porsche tried to block release of government safety report http://dailym.ai/1GbnbzV

Essentially some Porsche owners have complained about delayed throttle response. Government Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency have tested and found delays of up to 2.5 seconds. Porsche have admitted and said it's due to trying to meet compliance with drive by noise tests.

I think it's this phenomenon shown on a Cayman R. The top graph shows the gas pedal, lower graph throttle bodies. The car wouldn't open the throttle bodies immediately when it is driving at a constant 50-55 km/h in 4th gear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKQ2aFpbNzc

This has been around for quite a while, it only affects UK cars and goes away when you remap the ECU. Could very well be emission related...

[EricE]

Same deal, new engine: EA288 engines may also be affected. (successor to the EA189)

http://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/unternehmen/2015-10/...

[EricE]

German media has states that VW is planning to offer a (very attractive?) trade in program for the 1.6L diesel cars because repairing all of them, which requires more than just a software flash, would put too much stress on the dealerships.

[EricE]

kambites said:

RYH64E said:

Then what? Scrap them?

Probably sell them somewhere with no NOx limits.

According to this german article cars would be sold outside the EU (Turkey, Africa), very old and/or high mileage cars would be scrapped. Couldn't find an english article (yet).

[EricE]

I always thought that they can handle the NOx scandal but if it turns out they cheated with CO2 on a worldwide scale then that could be enough to bring VAG down, or at least shatter it into smaller pieces. Looks like that's happening now.

I am reasonably confident that they aren't the only ones with "creative ECU software" but they will be hit the hardest, no doubt. The way they are trickling the news bit by bit, depending on what's confirmed by other sources, is a complete stshow.

Cars affected by the new alleged CO2 manipulations:

VW Polo
VW Golf
VW Passat
Audi A1
Audi A3
Skoda Octavia
Seat Leon
Seat Ibiza

1.4, 1.6, 2.0L Diesel variants as well as a small number of petrol engines with cylinder deactivation.

(source: Handelsblatt.de)

Edited by EricE on Tuesday 3rd November 21:37

[EricE]

DonkeyApple said:

RobDickinson said:

So are Porsche going to blame WV engineers like every one else?

Effectively admit they didnt even look into the engine management system for one of their cars?

That's a very interesting conundrum for the brand.

Made even more interesting by the fact that Müller had to sign a paper stating that he had zero knowledge of the emissions manipulations before he went from Porsche to VW.

[EricE]

Another day, another VW issue. This time not directly emission related but hey.

VW recalls 91.867 cars for camshaft problem

http://www.wsj.com/articles/volkswagen-recalls-91-...


(image from http://www.audi-sport.net)

Edited by EricE on Wednesday 4th November 13:12