VW in trouble over alleged US emission test manipulations

[DonkeyApple]

Devil2575 said:

DonkeyApple said:

In short, living on the never never, not saving for your family's future, not having a solid double digit savings ratio, regardless of your level of education, line of work or background isn't exactly a middle class lifestyle.

It sounds to me like your issue is more a distaste of how the middle classes live rather than there being an actual problem. In years gone by the middle classes were actually a much smaller proportion of the population than they are now. Go back a number of decades and the majority of the population would have been working class, blue collar workers. Now the middle class makes up the majority. It's hardly supprising that with such an expansion of the middle classes there has been a change in the way this group choose to live. Did you consider it a problem in the past when the working classes, i.e. the majority of the population, lived from paycheck to paycheck?

Whether you think this is a middle class lifestyle or not is neither here nor there. Are you simply looking for a way to differentiate yourself from the majority who on the outside look the same as you? A way to fee superior to the masses now a flash car no longer does that job for you?

??? I think you have got completely the wrong end of the stick. It has nothing at all to do with myself.

Do you think that it serves this country any good at all to be a consumer economy where assets linked to the cost of living have been inflated by the removal of consumer debt regulation and creates the largest wealth divide of living memory?

Do you think it sensible to go from millions using small amounts of debt to fuel a lifestyle to millions using very large amounts of debt remotely sustainable? The clue to that answer lies in the fact that in 2007/8 we had to instigate a program of both money printing and seizing the interest income of savers to prevent the default of borrowers, such was the draconian level of the systemic risk that has built up and hasn't been removed since.

Do you think that consumption beyond the means of most, supported out of a reduction in savings rates and an increase in personal debt has any positives for a society whatsoever?

I don't know why you have chosen to be unpleasant or to make this personally about me but your stance seems somewhat silly in light of the facts of how we live today in the UK.

[ORD]

It's by far the biggest threat to continued prosperity. It makes it politically impossible and economically dangerous to raise interest rates. It's obviously insane for so many people on decent incomes to have no real savings and no real 'slack' in their personal finances.

I am amazed by how many people I know would have to take out an emergency loan to meet even modest unexpected bills, despite earning reasonable money. It is all spent on TV, car etc finance obligations before it is earned.

[Kolbenkopp]

C15 said:

If you read the press release all the cars being 're'-investigated, were never tested by the KBA, but by 'other' parties. All VW cars were tested by the TÜV the so-called impartial company. It seems they take money for anything...

Well there are obviously re-evaluating them with different methods (on road testing, test cycles that differ from the EU standard) to see if other brands are cheating. But you are right, there have also been discussions about TÜV et al being too profit driven and hence not so trustworthy. So far it looks like only VW cheated though.

[Toaster]

DonkeyApple said:

??? I think you have got completely the wrong end of the stick. It has nothing at all to do with myself.

Do you think that it serves this country any good at all to be a consumer economy where assets linked to the cost of living have been inflated by the removal of consumer debt regulation and creates the largest wealth divide of living memory?

Do you think it sensible to go from millions using small amounts of debt to fuel a lifestyle to millions using very large amounts of debt remotely sustainable? The clue to that answer lies in the fact that in 2007/8 we had to instigate a program of both money printing and seizing the interest income of savers to prevent the default of borrowers, such was the draconian level of the systemic risk that has built up and hasn't been removed since.

Do you think that consumption beyond the means of most, supported out of a reduction in savings rates and an increase in personal debt has any positives for a society whatsoever?

I don't know why you have chosen to be unpleasant or to make this personally about me but your stance seems somewhat silly in light of the facts of how we live today in the UK.

Well said that man you have my vote (for what its worth)

[DaveCWK]

The new PPI!

I've just been text a link to this:

http://www.vwclaimsteam.com

[boxedin]

Well, no shock that the Gift Card offer in the USA made customers even more pi55ed off.

Now, it seems VW are preparing to Buy Back cars that are affected by the CO2 issue, based on a CO2/MPG 10% threshold. The 1.6 diesel which looks to be affected by the NOx ( hardware changes ) and the CO2 issues / MPG claims I'd guess will be in for a buy back due to the double-whammy and the reported hardware / software changes.

[boxedin]

Thank goodness for non-car websites. Autocar and Autoexpress don't provide as much info as available here:
http://www.engadget.com/2015/11/25/vw-fix-european...

Is it smoke and mirrors? or is it going to be the magic unicorn fix?

[liner33]

boxedin said:

Thank goodness for non-car websites. Autocar and Autoexpress don't provide as much info as available here:
http://www.engadget.com/2015/11/25/vw-fix-european...

Is it smoke and mirrors? or is it going to be the magic unicorn fix?

Thats going to hurt the hp and raise the consumption !

[Monkeylegend]

boxedin said:

Thank goodness for non-car websites. Autocar and Autoexpress don't provide as much info as available here:
http://www.engadget.com/2015/11/25/vw-fix-european...

Is it smoke and mirrors? or is it going to be the magic unicorn fix?

Makes you wonder why if it is that simple they weren't fitted as new, and why others have gone down the route of urea injection.

[RYH64E]

That reminds me of one the magic resistor type devices you can buy on ebay to improve fuel consumption, increase power, and make you more attractive to women...

[k-ink]

liner33 said:

boxedin said:

Thank goodness for non-car websites. Autocar and Autoexpress don't provide as much info as available here:
http://www.engadget.com/2015/11/25/vw-fix-european...

Is it smoke and mirrors? or is it going to be the magic unicorn fix?

Thats going to hurt the hp and raise the consumption !

Which will lead to a second round of customer claims, as the updated cars will not be the same spec as advertised. What a bodge job.

[Cobnapint]

RYH64E said:

That reminds me of one the magic resistor type devices you can buy on ebay to improve fuel consumption, increase power, and make you more attractive to women...

[Crusoe]

Looks like it will decrease the air intake size by 20% or so judging by how thick that mesh is. Should lead to the same sort of decrease in fuel use and emissions for the same throttle opening but presumably cuts maximum power by a similar amount too.

[Devil2575]

DonkeyApple said:

??? I think you have got completely the wrong end of the stick. It has nothing at all to do with myself.

Do you think that it serves this country any good at all to be a consumer economy where assets linked to the cost of living have been inflated by the removal of consumer debt regulation and creates the largest wealth divide of living memory?

Do you think it sensible to go from millions using small amounts of debt to fuel a lifestyle to millions using very large amounts of debt remotely sustainable? The clue to that answer lies in the fact that in 2007/8 we had to instigate a program of both money printing and seizing the interest income of savers to prevent the default of borrowers, such was the draconian level of the systemic risk that has built up and hasn't been removed since.

Do you think that consumption beyond the means of most, supported out of a reduction in savings rates and an increase in personal debt has any positives for a society whatsoever?

I don't know why you have chosen to be unpleasant or to make this personally about me but your stance seems somewhat silly in light of the facts of how we live today in the UK.

Because I think your view of the situation is heavily biased by your politics.

How much of the rise in personal debt is down to mortages? How many people are using very large ammounts of debt? Seizing the interest income of savers? By that I assume you mean lowering the interest rate?

There is a problem in this country with the housing market, especially in the South East. I suspect that if you removed this aspect of the problem then the rest of it is small in comparison.

[Megaflow]

k-ink said:

liner33 said:

boxedin said:

Thank goodness for non-car websites. Autocar and Autoexpress don't provide as much info as available here:
http://www.engadget.com/2015/11/25/vw-fix-european...

Is it smoke and mirrors? or is it going to be the magic unicorn fix?

Thats going to hurt the hp and raise the consumption !

Which will lead to a second round of customer claims, as the updated cars will not be the same spec as advertised. What a bodge job.

My concern with this all along was how well thought through and validated the fix would be, considering how quick it needed to be brought to market.

And this confirms is a bodge to comply with the regulation.

[liner33]

Quite a few Mitsubishi's have the mesh in the air flow meter which helps it read better of course they were designed to have it from the outset, adding it afterwards must be a sizable restriction

[Fastdruid]

Allegedly VW knew a year ago about the MPG and CO2 being er fudged.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/29/us-volks...

[cptsideways]

boxedin said:

Thank goodness for non-car websites. Autocar and Autoexpress don't provide as much info as available here:
http://www.engadget.com/2015/11/25/vw-fix-european...

Is it smoke and mirrors? or is it going to be the magic unicorn fix?

I doubt its a fix at all, just a smoke & mirrors exercise. If you were Mr VW & told you might have spend billions eg 1000e's per car or some clever marketing geek comes up with a 50p solution that will fool 99% of people which would you choose?

Edited by cptsideways on Monday 30th November 12:30

[AW111]

cptsideways said:

I doubt its a fix at all, just a smoke & mirrors exercise. If you were Mr VW & told you might have spend billions eg 1000e's per car or some clever marketing geek comes up with a 50p solution that will fool 99% of people which would you choose?

Edited by cptsideways on Monday 30th November 12:30

My guess is that the real fix is the firmware reflash, but the "screen" is a bit of smoke and mirrors, to prove they "fixed" it.

[mollytherocker]

AW111 said:

cptsideways said:

I doubt its a fix at all, just a smoke & mirrors exercise. If you were Mr VW & told you might have spend billions eg 1000e's per car or some clever marketing geek comes up with a 50p solution that will fool 99% of people which would you choose?

Edited by cptsideways on Monday 30th November 12:30

My guess is that the real fix is the firmware reflash, but the "screen" is a bit of smoke and mirrors, to prove they "fixed" it.

It all depends on what 'fixed' means. Remove the cheat device? Pass the test? Or some other 'agreement'?