VW in trouble over alleged US emission test manipulations
Discussion
Even large petrol engines produce far less harmful gases (to humans) than diesels. This is a scientific fact.
The only advantage diesel's have is in terms of Co2, which itself is harmless to humans but is the basis for taxation in various European countries.
Diesel's spew copious amounts of Nox into the atmosphere compared with petrols... a far more damaging agent and the main reasons diesel have struggled to sell in the US, due to heavy regulation.
The only advantage diesel's have is in terms of Co2, which itself is harmless to humans but is the basis for taxation in various European countries.
Diesel's spew copious amounts of Nox into the atmosphere compared with petrols... a far more damaging agent and the main reasons diesel have struggled to sell in the US, due to heavy regulation.
skyrover said:
Even large petrol engines produce far less harmful gases (to humans) than diesels. This is a scientific fact.
The only advantage diesel's have is in terms of Co2, which itself is harmless to humans but is the basis for taxation in various European countries.
Diesel's spew copious amounts of Nox into the atmosphere compared with petrols... a far more damaging agent and the main reasons diesel have struggled to sell in the US, due to heavy regulation.
CO2 is not harmless to humans. The only advantage diesel's have is in terms of Co2, which itself is harmless to humans but is the basis for taxation in various European countries.
Diesel's spew copious amounts of Nox into the atmosphere compared with petrols... a far more damaging agent and the main reasons diesel have struggled to sell in the US, due to heavy regulation.
Petrol engines also don't just emit CO2.
Devil2575 said:
skyrover said:
Even large petrol engines produce far less harmful gases (to humans) than diesels. This is a scientific fact.
The only advantage diesel's have is in terms of Co2, which itself is harmless to humans but is the basis for taxation in various European countries.
Diesel's spew copious amounts of Nox into the atmosphere compared with petrols... a far more damaging agent and the main reasons diesel have struggled to sell in the US, due to heavy regulation.
CO2 is not harmless to humans. The only advantage diesel's have is in terms of Co2, which itself is harmless to humans but is the basis for taxation in various European countries.
Diesel's spew copious amounts of Nox into the atmosphere compared with petrols... a far more damaging agent and the main reasons diesel have struggled to sell in the US, due to heavy regulation.
Petrol engines also don't just emit CO2.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33254803
Co2 is completely harmless to humans.
I can't see VW surviving this or Merkel even wanting to bail them out.
They are already asking for leniency with the fine saying the 60 billion would bankrupt them.
But this is only one civil action ! Every state and city could file for compensation as well as all the owners.
Let's not forget they took BP to the cleaners over what was a accident, But VW committed Fraud and left themselves wide open!
Regarding the US showing leniency ? Not so long ago the biggest car company in the world was GM but first Toyota and then VW pushed them back to third place.
Toyota sales have been damaged by some very costly recalls in the states and now VW gift the US this chance to do something far more damaging.
Plus Australia is going to follow suit with the compensation claims as well as breaking various state laws.
They are already asking for leniency with the fine saying the 60 billion would bankrupt them.
But this is only one civil action ! Every state and city could file for compensation as well as all the owners.
Let's not forget they took BP to the cleaners over what was a accident, But VW committed Fraud and left themselves wide open!
Regarding the US showing leniency ? Not so long ago the biggest car company in the world was GM but first Toyota and then VW pushed them back to third place.
Toyota sales have been damaged by some very costly recalls in the states and now VW gift the US this chance to do something far more damaging.
Plus Australia is going to follow suit with the compensation claims as well as breaking various state laws.
Warmfuzzies said:
EskimoArapaho said:
Devil2575 said:
CO2 is not harmless to humans.
When is CO2 harmful to humans?CO2 is an asphyxiant gas and not classified as toxic or harmful in accordance with Globally Harmonized System of Classification and Labelling of Chemicals standards of United Nations Economic Commission for Europe by using the OECD Guidelines for the Testing of Chemicals. In concentrations up to 1% (10,000 ppm), it will make some people feel drowsy and give the lungs a stuffy feeling. Concentrations of 7% to 10% (70,000 to 100,000 ppm) may cause suffocation, even in the presence of sufficient oxygen, manifesting as dizziness, headache, visual and hearing dysfunction, and unconsciousness within a few minutes to an hour.
CO2 poisoning was a major concern in WW2 submarines and submarines were lost either directly or indirectly as a result of CO2 concentations in the air.
lostkiwi said:
From Wikipedia:
CO2 is an asphyxiant gas and not classified as toxic or harmful in accordance with Globally Harmonized System of Classification and Labelling of Chemicals standards of United e Nations Economic Commission for Europe by using the OECD Guidelines for the Testing of Chemicals. In concentrations up to 1% (10,000 ppm), it will make some people feel drowsy and give the lungs a stuffy feeling. Concentrations of 7% to 10% (70,000 to 100,000 ppm) may cause suffocation, even in the presence of sufficient oxygen, manifesting as dizziness, headache, visual and hearing dysfunction, and unconsciousness within a few minutes to an hour.
CO2 poisoning was a major concern in WW2 submarines and submarines were lost either directly or indirectly as a result of CO2 concentations in the air.
Just to be safe, I think it better if we got rid of all the CO2 in the atmosphere. You can't be too careful....CO2 is an asphyxiant gas and not classified as toxic or harmful in accordance with Globally Harmonized System of Classification and Labelling of Chemicals standards of United e Nations Economic Commission for Europe by using the OECD Guidelines for the Testing of Chemicals. In concentrations up to 1% (10,000 ppm), it will make some people feel drowsy and give the lungs a stuffy feeling. Concentrations of 7% to 10% (70,000 to 100,000 ppm) may cause suffocation, even in the presence of sufficient oxygen, manifesting as dizziness, headache, visual and hearing dysfunction, and unconsciousness within a few minutes to an hour.
CO2 poisoning was a major concern in WW2 submarines and submarines were lost either directly or indirectly as a result of CO2 concentations in the air.
V88Dicky said:
lostkiwi said:
From Wikipedia:
CO2 is an asphyxiant gas and not classified as toxic or harmful in accordance with Globally Harmonized System of Classification and Labelling of Chemicals standards of United e Nations Economic Commission for Europe by using the OECD Guidelines for the Testing of Chemicals. In concentrations up to 1% (10,000 ppm), it will make some people feel drowsy and give the lungs a stuffy feeling. Concentrations of 7% to 10% (70,000 to 100,000 ppm) may cause suffocation, even in the presence of sufficient oxygen, manifesting as dizziness, headache, visual and hearing dysfunction, and unconsciousness within a few minutes to an hour.
CO2 poisoning was a major concern in WW2 submarines and submarines were lost either directly or indirectly as a result of CO2 concentations in the air.
Just to be safe, I think it better if we got rid of all the CO2 in the atmosphere. You can't be too careful....CO2 is an asphyxiant gas and not classified as toxic or harmful in accordance with Globally Harmonized System of Classification and Labelling of Chemicals standards of United e Nations Economic Commission for Europe by using the OECD Guidelines for the Testing of Chemicals. In concentrations up to 1% (10,000 ppm), it will make some people feel drowsy and give the lungs a stuffy feeling. Concentrations of 7% to 10% (70,000 to 100,000 ppm) may cause suffocation, even in the presence of sufficient oxygen, manifesting as dizziness, headache, visual and hearing dysfunction, and unconsciousness within a few minutes to an hour.
CO2 poisoning was a major concern in WW2 submarines and submarines were lost either directly or indirectly as a result of CO2 concentations in the air.
skyrover said:
Even large petrol engines produce far less harmful gases (to humans) than diesels. This is a scientific fact.
.
bullfodder, try sitting in an enclosed garage with your petrol engine running, after half an hour repeat using a diesel, or dont, as you would be dead,.
the other way round a diesel would make you unwell but not kill you.
bobtail4x4 said:
skyrover said:
Even large petrol engines produce far less harmful gases (to humans) than diesels. This is a scientific fact.
.
bullfodder, try sitting in an enclosed garage with your petrol engine running, after half an hour repeat using a diesel, or dont, as you would be dead,.
the other way round a diesel would make you unwell but not kill you.
If anyone doubts the impacts of petrol engined cars on the environment you only need to look at LA and the impact on children's health due to the clean air act
http://www.marketplace.org/2014/07/14/sustainabili...
http://www.wsj.com/articles/los-angeles-sees-healt...
http://www.marketplace.org/2014/07/14/sustainabili...
http://www.wsj.com/articles/los-angeles-sees-healt...
The Americans see this as a chance to kick VW, They are unashamedly protectionist in their outlook and seeing as this has been filed in Detroit, is more than significant as the imports, being better than home produced, have decimated the US car industry.
Will VW survive? It will be a long old haul and the chance of free money for States and individuals will make the BP fiasco seem cheap, but I hope they do as the implications for the EU if they fall over will be huge.
Perhaps there is an equivalent of chapter 11 protection that US companies use for VW to stave this off
Will VW survive? It will be a long old haul and the chance of free money for States and individuals will make the BP fiasco seem cheap, but I hope they do as the implications for the EU if they fall over will be huge.
Perhaps there is an equivalent of chapter 11 protection that US companies use for VW to stave this off
lostkiwi said:
Warmfuzzies said:
EskimoArapaho said:
Devil2575 said:
CO2 is not harmless to humans.
When is CO2 harmful to humans?CO2 is an asphyxiant gas and not classified as toxic or harmful in accordance with Globally Harmonized System of Classification and Labelling of Chemicals standards of United Nations Economic Commission for Europe by using the OECD Guidelines for the Testing of Chemicals. In concentrations up to 1% (10,000 ppm), it will make some people feel drowsy and give the lungs a stuffy feeling. Concentrations of 7% to 10% (70,000 to 100,000 ppm) may cause suffocation, even in the presence of sufficient oxygen, manifesting as dizziness, headache, visual and hearing dysfunction, and unconsciousness within a few minutes to an hour.
CO2 poisoning was a major concern in WW2 submarines and submarines were lost either directly or indirectly as a result of CO2 concentations in the air.
CO2 is required for plants to grow. At 150ppm, IIRC, plants start to die. It's the building block of life, but it's been the easiest target for climate evangelists.
spaximus said:
The Americans see this as a chance to kick VW, They are unashamedly protectionist in their outlook and seeing as this has been filed in Detroit, is more than significant as the imports, being better than home produced, have decimated the US car industry.
Will VW survive? It will be a long old haul and the chance of free money for States and individuals will make the BP fiasco seem cheap, but I hope they do as the implications for the EU if they fall over will be huge.
Perhaps there is an equivalent of chapter 11 protection that US companies use for VW to stave this off
I disagree. I don't see Honda, Mazda, Toyota et al being buried after airbag-gate ( 3rd party supplier to be fair ).Will VW survive? It will be a long old haul and the chance of free money for States and individuals will make the BP fiasco seem cheap, but I hope they do as the implications for the EU if they fall over will be huge.
Perhaps there is an equivalent of chapter 11 protection that US companies use for VW to stave this off
Its very simple, VW have committed fraud and despite being given ample opportunity to sort their house out, failed.
Tough, this is the end of diesel in the USA and its a shame the EU aren't taking a similar approach with VW and diesel in general.
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