RE: Winterkorn out!
Discussion
300bhp/ton said:
Never understand how it is acceptable to get rid of the bloke at the top.
Firstly they are unlikely to be directly involved in most lower happenings of a company. Secondly, they should be made responsible by STAYING and sorting it out. Not palming if off to somebody else.
You are correct that "the bloke at the top" is unlikely to have been involved in a criminal act by one, or only a handful, of engineers.Firstly they are unlikely to be directly involved in most lower happenings of a company. Secondly, they should be made responsible by STAYING and sorting it out. Not palming if off to somebody else.
However, he, the CEO, will be personally involved in the change of organizational culture that must now occur.
His actions will require an almost super-human level of objectivity -- in favor of shareholder value and with utter detachment from any and all alliances / traditions / politics which have accumulated within the organization over the last number of years.
No sitting CEO can induce this seismic shift in culture. Results can be achieved only by a new leader.
rohrl said:
PhantomPH said:
'Professor Doctor' as a title? I'm not entirely sure that's a thing....
It is in Germany.He could quite legitimately be addressed as "Herr Professor Doktor"
Brompty said:
Was there not a Porsche (I know - part of the same group) Panamera that returned more than 100 mpg.
Ah, no. If you use a battery pack and electric motor to completely skew the mpg figures it's perfectly acceptable. You can then use the fact that your vehicle does 150mpg in your advertising - despite the fact that it will only achieve those figures under very specific usage.Low Pro said:
Wow VWs have become more interesting!!! For the wrong reasons
Wonder if this will affect
Audi
Seat
Skoda
Because lets face it they are all pretty much the same!!
Škoda aren't involved in the USA scandal, by virtue that they aren't sold there.Wonder if this will affect
Audi
Seat
Skoda
Because lets face it they are all pretty much the same!!
I wonder if the VAG premium brands are involved? (Porsche are the most likely as they are the only one who make diesels?)
I predicted that VAG couldn't sustain its position as number 1 car manufacturer in the world - I just didn't see it would happen this quick or for this reason
IanCress said:
Brompty said:
Was there not a Porsche (I know - part of the same group) Panamera that returned more than 100 mpg.
Ah, no. If you use a battery pack and electric motor to completely skew the mpg figures it's perfectly acceptable. You can then use the fact that your vehicle does 150mpg in your advertising - despite the fact that it will only achieve those figures under very specific usage.Edit to add: And in fact, you have to quote the official mpg figure, measured that way, on all adverts otherwise you'd be breaking the law...
Edited by AJB on Wednesday 23 September 19:16
AJB said:
Edit to add: And in fact, you have to quote the official mpg figure, measured that way, on all adverts otherwise you'd be breaking the law...
Indeed. Edited by AJB on Wednesday 23 September 19:16
IMO this whole saga is a load of sphericals. VW are just a scapegoat (or the first to be caught). All the others must be s
tting themselves. Just compare the stated emissions of all the mainstream 2.0L diesels - IIRC they're all around 120 CO2s. That ain't no coincidence... I say; don't blame the player, blame the game.
No doubt the eco warriors will be milking this til the cows come home.
oldtimer2 said:
His resignation was unavoidable step, even if he was not personally aware. It happened on his watch.
More accurately the issue was discovered on his watch. However the offending engine was discontinued in the US in 2014, but Winterkorn replaced Piech in April 2015. So the actual offenses occurred very much under Piech's watch. Potentially a lucky escape for him, but I have a feeling this will catch up with him so he's no doubt sweating bullets too.VX Foxy said:
AJB said:
Edit to add: And in fact, you have to quote the official mpg figure, measured that way, on all adverts otherwise you'd be breaking the law...
Indeed. Edited by AJB on Wednesday 23 September 19:16
IMO this whole saga is a load of sphericals. VW are just a scapegoat (or the first to be caught). All the others must be s
tting themselves. Just compare the stated emissions of all the mainstream 2.0L diesels - IIRC they're all around 120 CO2s. That ain't no coincidence... BMW use SCR tech to hit the emission targets, VW didn't, they chose to cheat rather than pony up the extra cost in parts, I'm sure there is a memo entitled "let them breath it" somewhere in Wolfsburg.
Dale487 said:
...
I wonder if the VAG premium brands are involved? (Porsche are the most likely as they are the only one who make diesels?)
...
Yes, it includes Audi - I believe it was any of their cars with a particular 2 litre diesel engine, and platform sharing means:I wonder if the VAG premium brands are involved? (Porsche are the most likely as they are the only one who make diesels?)
...
"These include the Audi A3, VW Jetta, Beetle, Golf and Passat models. VW has halted sales of these models." (The Telegraph, 22/9/15)
Note this is just the USA models, so could be more if an investigation by the EU Commission finds models that don't meet the European standards.
Next question is whether this mapping was in-house, an external consultancy, or off the shelf from a third party such as Bosch's EDC15C2 or a similar part from Continental. The third option is by far the worst case since they (Bosch and Conti) supply components and assemblies to pretty much the entire European car industry, so the issue would affect many other groups too.
Low Pro said:
Wow VWs have become more interesting!!! For the wrong reasons
Wonder if this will affect
Audi
Seat
Skoda
Because lets face it they are all pretty much the same!!
And the diesel Panameras! Wonder if this will affect
Audi
Seat
Skoda
Because lets face it they are all pretty much the same!!
Give it a few weeks and I reckon (shock, horror) it'll turn out it's not just VAG up to no good
JockySteer said:
Low Pro said:
Wow VWs have become more interesting!!! For the wrong reasons
Wonder if this will affect
Audi
Seat
Skoda
Because lets face it they are all pretty much the same!!
And the diesel Panameras! Wonder if this will affect
Audi
Seat
Skoda
Because lets face it they are all pretty much the same!!
Give it a few weeks and I reckon (shock, horror) it'll turn out it's not just VAG up to no good
300bhp/ton said:
Never understand how it is acceptable to get rid of the bloke at the top.
Firstly they are unlikely to be directly involved in most lower happenings of a company. Secondly, they should be made responsible by STAYING and sorting it out. Not palming if off to somebody else.
+1Firstly they are unlikely to be directly involved in most lower happenings of a company. Secondly, they should be made responsible by STAYING and sorting it out. Not palming if off to somebody else.
oldtimer2 said:
His resignation was unavoidable step, even if he was not personally aware. It happened on his watch.
The reputational and cost consequences for VW and the VAG group look dire. But there is sure to be fall out for the rest of the European industry too. Diesel engines are significant - in the UK it is reported that about three quarters of all UK engine production is diesel. After being pushed in the direction of diesel by the environmental lobby and EU regulation and taxation over the past decade or more, there are already the first stirrings of a backlash against polluting diesels by environmental lobbyists. It this succeeds then the industry and us, the consumers, can expect changes to current tax incentives and emissions standards and testing - and manufacturers will be in yet another round of re-engineering. None of this will come cheap. Pause for thought if you are thinking of or about to buy a new car.
Why should diesel engines be especially effected by this? If this is a VAG only issue? Who is to say there isn't some sort of cheat software on petrol engines?The reputational and cost consequences for VW and the VAG group look dire. But there is sure to be fall out for the rest of the European industry too. Diesel engines are significant - in the UK it is reported that about three quarters of all UK engine production is diesel. After being pushed in the direction of diesel by the environmental lobby and EU regulation and taxation over the past decade or more, there are already the first stirrings of a backlash against polluting diesels by environmental lobbyists. It this succeeds then the industry and us, the consumers, can expect changes to current tax incentives and emissions standards and testing - and manufacturers will be in yet another round of re-engineering. None of this will come cheap. Pause for thought if you are thinking of or about to buy a new car.
Wills2 said:
I'm not sure they are, BMW have publically stated they aren't doing it this is backed up by the testing of BMW diesels by the same people who caught VW, as they have passed the tests.
BMW use SCR tech to hit the emission targets, VW didn't, they chose to cheat rather than pony up the extra cost in parts, I'm sure there is a memo entitled "let them breath it" somewhere in Wolfsburg.
If you're right, I would think that VW are utterly fBMW use SCR tech to hit the emission targets, VW didn't, they chose to cheat rather than pony up the extra cost in parts, I'm sure there is a memo entitled "let them breath it" somewhere in Wolfsburg.
ked. I wonder what effect this will have on the much-speculated-upon VW Formula 1 tie-up with Red Bull for 2018?
Piech wasn't in favour of it. Winterkorn was.
Even if the new CEO is in favour, it's likely that the US prosecutors will ensure that VAG's ability to fund such a venture is compromised.
Pity, F1 could have done with another engine supplier..
Piech wasn't in favour of it. Winterkorn was.
Even if the new CEO is in favour, it's likely that the US prosecutors will ensure that VAG's ability to fund such a venture is compromised.
Pity, F1 could have done with another engine supplier..
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